WesPorter wrote:Fair enough Dennis, it does not matter when the earth and heavens were created. It is obvious it was created by a designer.

It is more important to know who the creator is and what he wants. Whether it was billions of years ago or 10,000 years ago are inconsequential.

Funny that you found all the versions say the same thing. You know what all those versions say the same thing. Look them up verse by verse and you will see. Are you surprised?

I love the claim that there is "obviously" a creator. There is obviously NOT a creator, but you may suggest there is one. And why would it be important to 'know' our creator? Why can't we just live our lives for ourselves?

Here's the correct use of the term 'obvious' though... The Earth is obviously billions of years old. Radiometric age testing shows remnants of asteroids on the surface of the earth dating back to that time. Fact, Logic, Science, answers that had to be determined but are now obvious. Earth being round anyone?

With that last statement you could claim that, well, we have obviously not determined the creator yet. While it would be obvious that we haven't determined it yet, still the Creator is not obvious. The argument that you have to have faith to (non)prove it's existence immediately throws the shallow attempt at a logical discussion about some imaginary "Objective Morality" right out the window.

Without naming names, the Christian take on Mayan sacrifice, for example, would be that the Mayans have obviously been worshipping the WRONG god (Heathens!) because... you know... they kill people "Ka-Li-Mah" style. So in the past Christian view that meant it would be GOOD or 'okay' to inject your own views of the universe onto them. I'm sure the Christian hive mind that employs missionaries to destroy ancient cultures' religions believes that is perfectly GOOD and okay in their world of Objective Morality... but I don't - am I wrong?

... *checks his front door for well-dressed, book carrying stalkers*

I've read quite a bit through this thread and frankly my head hurts LOL.

I think this quote from the original post describes this thread perfectly: "Because it's impossible to have an intelligent debate on marijuana legalization in this country. "

DennisG2010 wrote:Sorry Wes, I don't believe our universe was created by any intelligent designer.
I find it to be fairly obvious that there is no Creator, no "Intelligent Design".

I believe in the laws of science and nature.
I don't believe in the supernatural in any form.

I believe that the core messages of religious texts - the golden rule, e.g. - are good rules to live by. But those texts are the words of men, and as such are fallible and corruptible.

I've never studied philosophy or the bible, but I'm a thoughtful person - contemplative, just as you said you are.
I know the difference between right and wrong, and I care about doing right rather than wrong.

I believe some aspects of morality are objective, by which I mean absolute, and those are self-evident to any thoughtful person.
Other aspects of morality are subjective, and the issue of right/wrong, good/bad is a matter of circumstance and perspective.

If "Objective Morality" simply means "God spells it all out in the bible, and makes it black and white exactly what is right and wrong - in any situation", well then I don't believe in it.

I don't believe we necessarily have to respect each others beliefs (by we I'm speaking of humanity, not just you and I), but we do have to respect each other.

There's no harm in explaining to others what one believes, why one believes, even respectfully disagreeing with others beliefs, but I believe proselytizing is disrespectful, insulting and immoral.

I believe your response to this blog post was overly reactive and rash, so people responded in kind. Then, your response to their responses was patronizing and insulting - so they continued to respond in kind.
Sometimes the golden rule is the hardest one to follow.

Your objective morality should have lead you to turn the other cheek.
And I believe that the spirit of "turning one's cheek" doesn't include turning up one's nose - which is the attitude you have conveyed since your initial post.

I hope you are able to find peace with your God and your beliefs, and also with your fellow man, some of whom may be perfectly capable of finding peace without them.

And above all, I hope you are able to find a deal-a-day site with great bargains, fun promotions and an irreverent sense of humor, that also meets your objective moral standards.
Good luck with that.

With all that being said you still never answered the one simple question I asked. Where does your objective morality come from?

If you are a materialist/Atheist then there is no right or wrong it is all relative. There are just molecules banging around in the universe. My post can't even be wrong according to your worldview. Who cares if we treat people bad or follow the golden rule it is all subjective. You keep talking in objective terms of right and wrong but claim you are a relativist.

Your worldview is not consistent with your claim.

wootrook wrote:I love the claim that there is "obviously" a creator. There is obviously NOT a creator, but you may suggest there is one. And why would it be important to 'know' our creator? Why can't we just live our lives for ourselves?

Here's the correct use of the term 'obvious' though... The Earth is obviously billions of years old. Radiometric age testing shows remnants of asteroids on the surface of the earth dating back to that time. Fact, Logic, Science, answers that had to be determined but are now obvious. Earth being round anyone?

With that last statement you could claim that, well, we have obviously not determined the creator yet. While it would be obvious that we haven't determined it yet, still the Creator is not obvious. The argument that you have to have faith to (non)prove it's existence immediately throws the shallow attempt at a logical discussion about some imaginary "Objective Morality" right out the window.

Without naming names, the Christian take on Mayan sacrifice, for example, would be that the Mayans have obviously been worshipping the WRONG god (Heathens!) because... you know... they kill people "Ka-Li-Mah" style. So in the past Christian view that meant it would be GOOD or 'okay' to inject your own views of the universe onto them. I'm sure the Christian hive mind that employs missionaries to destroy ancient cultures' religions believes that is perfectly GOOD and okay in their world of Objective Morality... but I don't - am I wrong?

... *checks his front door for well-dressed, book carrying stalkers*

Tell me where did all this stuff come from? We know it has not always existed whether it is billions of years old or not.

So you feel like beheading people for religious purposes is ok, you believe in killing young babies is ok as well? You believe the Mayan, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, etc... are all fine with what they did? You have no problem with slavery?

Interesting.

WesPorter wrote:With all that being said you still never answered the one simple question I asked. Where does your objective morality come from?

Easy. He took the Wesporter way out. Don't answer any question anyone asks you. Makes life simpler. Seriously, you dodge questions better than most actors dodge bullets in action movies. So, before you go pointing the finger, I suggest you take a look at yourself.

A+ article, A discussion, B+ troll (great effort but could do with a bit less cliche). I don't feel particularly strongly either way about the pot thing but the stoners' argument lies somewhere between incoherent and nonsensical, with just enough self-righteous activist emorage mixed in to ensure they alienate a sufficiently large number of people.

WesPorter wrote:With all that being said you still never answered the one simple question I asked. Where does your objective morality come from?

If you are a materialist/Atheist then there is no right or wrong it is all relative. There are just molecules banging around in the universe. My post can't even be wrong according to your worldview. Who cares if we treat people bad or follow the golden rule it is all subjective. You keep talking in objective terms of right and wrong but claim you are a relativist.

Your worldview is not consistent with your claim.

I am an atheist.
I never claimed to be a materialist or a relativist.
I don't know what those things are and I'm not interested in finding out at this point.

My belief in what is right and what is wrong comes from my conscience, which is informed by my intellect.
An intellect which is the product of millions of years of evolution of the human brain.
Human intellect has evolved to a point where we can now begin to understand how the universe works and where it came from, without resorting to myths and superstitions to explain the things we don't understand.

I'm going to forfeit any claim to "Objective Morality" as apparently it's just code for "God's Law", just like "Intelligent Design" is code for "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".

I know what is right and what is wrong, and I strive to do what's right because I am an evolved, intelligent, civilized human being of the 21st century, who cares about his fellow man.

I don't need to fear judgement by any supernatural being to do what I believe is the right thing.

I have my failings and my weaknesses, and I strive to be a better person so that I can comfortably live with myself in this life, not out of fear of punishment in some "afterlife".

Wes - you just go right on believing what you believe, and I'll do the same.
And if the rapture comes, you can look down at me from your perch in the clouds and have a good chuckle. Just be careful Jesus doesn't smack you upside the head for committing the sin of Pride.

The great thing about my belief system is that I can believe I know better than you without being a hypocrite or fearing reprisal for being proud.

DennisG2010 wrote:The great thing about my belief system is that I can believe I know better than you without being a hypocrite or fearing reprisal for being proud.

So in other words, you subvert logic for cheap emotional thrills whereas he subverts emotion for cheap logical thrills. Got it. ;)

dinsdalep13 wrote:Easy. He took the Wesporter way out. Don't answer any question anyone asks you. Makes life simpler. Seriously, you dodge questions better than most actors dodge bullets in action movies. So, before you go pointing the finger, I suggest you take a look at yourself.

Line up the questions I did not answer. I will answer everyone you list here. Sorry if I missed something you wanted me to address.

DennisG2010 wrote:I am an atheist.
I never claimed to be a materialist or a relativist.
I don't know what those things are and I'm not interested in finding out at this point.

My belief in what is right and what is wrong comes from my conscience, which is informed by my intellect.
An intellect which is the product of millions of years of evolution of the human brain.
Human intellect has evolved to a point where we can now begin to understand how the universe works and where it came from, without resorting to myths and superstitions to explain the things we don't understand.

I'm going to forfeit any claim to "Objective Morality" as apparently it's just code for "God's Law", just like "Intelligent Design" is code for "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".

I know what is right and what is wrong, and I strive to do what's right because I am an evolved, intelligent, civilized human being of the 21st century, who cares about his fellow man.

I don't need to fear judgement by any supernatural being to do what I believe is the right thing.

I have my failings and my weaknesses, and I strive to be a better person so that I can comfortably live with myself in this life, not out of fear of punishment in some "afterlife".

Wes - you just go right on believing what you believe, and I'll do the same.
And if the rapture comes, you can look down at me from your perch in the clouds and have a good chuckle. Just be careful Jesus doesn't smack you upside the head for committing the sin of Pride.

The great thing about my belief system is that I can believe I know better than you without being a hypocrite or fearing reprisal for being proud.

Dennis,

Well you have a belief system that you don't even understand then because you continue to talk in terms of things that are right and wrong but being an Atheist all things should be okay. Even my opinions.

DennisG2010 wrote:I'm pretty impressed with the way Wes has been able to avoid mentioning GOD or HIS WORD, when it's what he's been talking about this whole time.

I wonder why. I guess he's smart enough to know that invoking an imaginary, mythical overlord would hurt his credibility.

Wes - here's how I see it. There is both objective and subjective morality.

Some things are black & white - clearly right or wrong. Others are more of a gray area and open to debate.

One problem I have with your stance is that you seem to believe that, when it comes to intoxicating substances, use = abuse.

It is possible to use these substances responsibly and suffer no ill effects.
To say that because they cause some people to do harm to themselves and others, then it's wrong for anyone to use them is misguided.
After all, one could say that many, many people over the centuries have abused the bible to do harm to others, and therefore to advocate it's use is objectively wrong.
In fact, this is where I stand - but I realize that this is my subjective opinion.

You said, "It is not me who makes the rules. I am not the one who says what is right and wrong but the one who created you gets that privilege."

I have to agree with you there. My parents, who created me, did a great job of teaching me how to figure out for myself what is right and wrong.

One of the things I've come to learn in recent years is that religion is wrong, and in fact immoral. (Sorry to generalize, I'm sure there are exceptions - I suppose I should have said Theism and/or Deism, and not "religion".)
Christians, in particular, tend to be the least Christ-like people so few actually practice what they preach.

I don't believe the bible is God's word - I don't believe in God. While I believe Jesus may have been a real person, I don't believe in his divinity or the stories in the Gospels.
That being said, I agree with what he is purported to have taught.
The lessons credited to him are the basic, objective morals, and everyone should aspire to live by them. In practice, however, things become more subjective.

Wes - I can only presume that you are an indoctrinated Christian - maybe I'm wrong and your philosophy exists outside of religious doctrine, but if so, who is the "moral law giver"?

If I presume correctly, then you have been brain-washed and mislead by charlatans and should really reexamine your beliefs and try to learn to think for yourself.

Anyway, I'll stop there - sorry Wooters - this is a huge subject, one that I'm passionate about, and one that probably doesn't belong here.

I'd like to buy you a beer some day lol.

goldenthorn wrote:Sir -
Atheism is not synonymous with moral relativism.
Moral relativism is not a monolith. It is a broad philosophical term that has many established subsets/forms as well as differing personal definitions.
Atheism, on the other hand, is the absence of a belief in any god(s). No more, no less.
Atheism has nothing to do (excuse me: cannot be assumed to be automatically linked/causative/resultant/correspondent/etc) with moral relativism beyond both terms being belief/interpretative processes happening to exist in various people in various ways to varying degrees. One cannot assume atheism in one who follows some form of moral relativism any more than one can assume some form of moral relativism in one who is atheist.
Please stop conflating the two concepts.

An atheist cannot have objective morality. They go hand in hand unless you can show otherwise.

I know they are not the same thing but their worldview all goes into the same bucket.

WesPorter wrote:Dennis,

Well you have a belief system that you don't even understand then because you continue to talk in terms of things that are right and wrong but being an Atheist all things should be okay. Even my opinions.

Completely asinine.

Being an Athiest doesn't mean that everything is okay (I'm pretty sure that would calssify as an Anarchist anyway), but rather that I don't need a word-of-mouth work of fairytale fiction to tell me what is or isn't acceptable in a civilized society. Instead, my "moral compass" comes from logical thinking. For instance, the Bible tells you that murder is wrong. I agree because it isn't a civilized thing to do (in most cases), and hurts society. The concept of right and wrong is more about the advancement of civilization than it is about superstition.

As far as the legalization of marijuana and your comparison of it to alcohol from a legal standpoint is ridiculous. You say that marijuana causes crime and that's why it is illegal. You likened it to alcohol by presenting that people who abuse alcohol commit crimes. However, the big difference here is that while alcohol is legal to buy, possess, and consume (in most municipalities), marijuana is flat-out banned. Alcohol doesn't cause crime, and neither does marijuana. Because of the prohibition of marijuana, there is crime.

WesPorter wrote:An atheist cannot have objective morality. They go hand in hand unless you can show otherwise.

I know they are not the same thing but their worldview all goes into the same bucket.

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever herad. There's no such thing as objective morality. The world isn't black and white like that. By that logic, our soldiers are immoral people for killing our enemies in war, regardless of whether or not it is just.

WesPorter wrote:Dennis,

being an Atheist all things should be okay.

Where the hell do you get that idea?
I'm an atheist (lower case "a", btw), not an anarchist.
My understanding and use of the term atheist is to mean that I do not believe in a god or gods or supreme beings or an intelligent designer who created the universe.
In fact, and I don't know if this falls outside the term, but I don't believe in the supernatural in any form.

I already explained to you how I know right from wrong. I use my intellect. I'm proud of the fact that I have a well developed intellect.

As I mentioned earlier, I have never studied philosophy or theology.
In fact, I don't even have a college degree - does that surprise you?

I may not understand my own belief system - I've never actually taken the time to systematize my beliefs - and I may not be skilled in the art of debate.

My "system" is organic. It is constantly evolving as I learn and grow as a person.
One part of my system of beliefs that I have become more and more certain of over the years is that the exclusionary belief systems of organized religions are wrong and immoral.

"The Church" is a corrupt, immoral, vile institution whose only ambition is power.

I despise the Church, but I don't feel the same about the faithful.
I both pity them and envy them at the same time.
I pity them because the poor, simpleminded, ignorant fools are being used and manipulated by true evil.
I envy them because, well, it's true - ignorance is bliss.
Life would be so much simpler if I could just put my trust in God...
Alas - I'm smart enough to know that He does not exist, and so I must think for myself and find my own way in the world - it ain't easy, but the high road never is.

Each time I've spent so much time and effort crafting another post to respond to you in this thread, my conscience has been screaming at me, "why are you bothering?!? You know this is a pointless exercise in futility!!!"

I don't normally engage in this topic of debate, because I know that people like you forgo reason and logic in favor of blind, deaf "faith".
I got suckered in this time because I couldn't understand what about the original blog post would cause you to boycott the site.
Then you gave a cryptic answer about Objective Morality that piqued my curiosity so I made an effort to understand you.

Well, it's all clear to me now. I know exactly who you are and what you believe. And I pity you Wes. But I don't envy you. I don't begrudge you your faith. Good for you that you've found such simple meaning in such a complex universe.
But you really should keep it to yourself. It's fine for you to believe what you do, but it's wrong of you to try to convince others that yours is the only "right" way.

You obviously don't understand me, and that's perfectly fine with me.
From this point on, as far as you are concerned anyway, I will keep my beliefs to myself - it's the polite thing to do.

If nothing else, thanks for giving me something to do with my spare time while the PSN network has been down.

As you said in your very first post which started this whole ball rolling:
"Well there you go. Buh bye."

phantom240 wrote:I'd like to buy you a beer some day lol.

God, I could use a beer or two right now.
I think I'll just smoke some pot, though.

(and yes, I did just use His name in vain - is that ironic?)

DennisG2010 wrote:

(is that ironic?)

OOH OOH that's Alanis Morissette

crowsnest wrote:OOH OOH that's Alanis Morissette

...who played God in the movie "Dogma"!

And it all comes full circle, like some kind of divine provenance.
(I don't even know what that means - just thought it sounded good)
;)

crowsnest wrote:OOH OOH that's Alanis Morissette

lol a blast from the past there.

I'd also like to point out that Woot! isn't losing anything of value with Wes boycotting them, with his piddly little 10-24 woots in 5 years. LOL.

phantom240 wrote:That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever herad. There's no such thing as objective morality. The world isn't black and white like that. By that logic, our soldiers are immoral people for killing our enemies in war, regardless of whether or not it is just.

Why is killing wrong then? Who made up that rule. Earlier someone was talking about how the Mayan's killed people to please their gods. Why is that wrong?

You keep sneaking objective morality in by the claims you make.

DennisG2010 wrote:Where the hell do you get that idea?
I'm an atheist (lower case "a", btw), not an anarchist.
My understanding and use of the term atheist is to mean that I do not believe in a god or gods or supreme beings or an intelligent designer who created the universe.
In fact, and I don't know if this falls outside the term, but I don't believe in the supernatural in any form.

I already explained to you how I know right from wrong. I use my intellect. I'm proud of the fact that I have a well developed intellect.

As I mentioned earlier, I have never studied philosophy or theology.
In fact, I don't even have a college degree - does that surprise you?

I may not understand my own belief system - I've never actually taken the time to systematize my beliefs - and I may not be skilled in the art of debate.

My "system" is organic. It is constantly evolving as I learn and grow as a person.
One part of my system of beliefs that I have become more and more certain of over the years is that the exclusionary belief systems of organized religions are wrong and immoral.

"The Church" is a corrupt, immoral, vile institution whose only ambition is power.

I despise the Church, but I don't feel the same about the faithful.
I both pity them and envy them at the same time.
I pity them because the poor, simpleminded, ignorant fools are being used and manipulated by true evil.
I envy them because, well, it's true - ignorance is bliss.
Life would be so much simpler if I could just put my trust in God...
Alas - I'm smart enough to know that He does not exist, and so I must think for myself and find my own way in the world - it ain't easy, but the high road never is.

Each time I've spent so much time and effort crafting another post to respond to you in this thread, my conscience has been screaming at me, "why are you bothering?!? You know this is a pointless exercise in futility!!!"

I don't normally engage in this topic of debate, because I know that people like you forgo reason and logic in favor of blind, deaf "faith".
I got suckered in this time because I couldn't understand what about the original blog post would cause you to boycott the site.
Then you gave a cryptic answer about Objective Morality that piqued my curiosity so I made an effort to understand you.

Well, it's all clear to me now. I know exactly who you are and what you believe. And I pity you Wes. But I don't envy you. I don't begrudge you your faith. Good for you that you've found such simple meaning in such a complex universe.
But you really should keep it to yourself. It's fine for you to believe what you do, but it's wrong of you to try to convince others that yours is the only "right" way.

You obviously don't understand me, and that's perfectly fine with me.
From this point on, as far as you are concerned anyway, I will keep my beliefs to myself - it's the polite thing to do.

If nothing else, thanks for giving me something to do with my spare time while the PSN network has been down.

As you said in your very first post which started this whole ball rolling:
"Well there you go. Buh bye."

I wonder if Hitler thought the same thoughts in his own mind. I wonder if slave traders thought the same thing in their own mind. I am sure they "thought" they were doing right when they were wrong.

It's funny that you call me Jatravartid essentially. I get you don't like my religious views, that does not surprise me. But my faith is not blind faith it is reasonable faith. I have examined the facts, I have thought about these things deeply and I just don't brush these ideas under the carpet. My faith is not blind faith but it answers every question about life, how did I get here, what am I supposed to be doing and where I am going. It explains why we are the way we are etc...

Since this is your final post I will make it my final post as well.

Dennis, my ideas are to make you think. I am not here to say I am better than you. On the contrary, I am probably much worse than you if we compared our lives since birth.

Here is our problem, mine and yours and everyone else's in this world. We have a sin problem. Whether it is lying, stealing, taking God's name in vain, not honoring our parents, lusting after women (Jesus calls that adultery in the heart Matthew 5), etc... This is where objective morality comes in, We have a moral law giver. This is why you know murder is wrong, why snuffleupagus is wrong, why torturing babies is wrong. You didn't conceive it in your mind.

Now me and you have broken those laws in so many different ways. There is judgment coming. You are going to stand before a perfect and holy God one day and He is going to hold you accountable. Me as well. I am a sinner who needs a Savior.

See each one of us have broken His rules. And there is payment to be made to Him. If me and you stand before Him on judgment day you know what we both deserve? Death that is the payment He requires.

But the good news is God came down to earth and was willing to pay for our sins. Jesus Christ died upon a cross to pay or debt that God requires. He took our place by paying with His life. This is the Good News of the Gospel. You don't have to be sent to Hell for all of eternity. If you place your faith and trust into Him. He is the good news!

Why do I even bother to tell you because in all actuality Dennis I care where you spend eternity. If you had cancer and I had the cure but I didn't give it to you then that would be about the meanest thing anyone could do.

Whether you take the cure is up to you.

I get that you don't like my ideas but like I said in the beginning it makes the most sense. Atheism explains nothing.

I wish you well in your endeavors.

Atheism doesn't attempt to explain anything... but atheism ALLOWS for science to enter the picture and that CAN explain why we are here today - or at least make the most informed decision about it available.

You seek an answer to everything and when the belief in God comes up and purports to know it all, people who NEED answers to exist in life cling to it instead of continuing to live their lives for themselves.

Religion is such a detriment to society, but it allows those who need answers to get the drugs they crave. ;)

You know what just made me chuckle?

I realized that the point that the author of the original blog post was making absolutely applies to Wes!

Want to save my soul? Then stop trying so hard to save my soul.

Because your arguments are nonsensical rubbish.

Objective Morality - BAH!
You did in fact get me to think, and further educate myself, Wes.
Unfortunately it backfired. I'm more certain than ever that you are just spouting horsesh!t.
The morals taught in the bible have shifted and changed throughout the centuries - right along with the mores of society.
The bible, especially when looked at in terms of Objective or Absolute Morality, is just chock full of hypocrisy.

Tell me something Wes - is it moral to stone a person to death - for any reason, ever?

Apparently, in biblical times, It would not only have been morally just to stone me to death just for what I've written here, it was commanded by God that it should be done!

But, these days, we know that stoning a person to death, for any reason, is cruel, inhuman and utterly immoral - particularly when it's done in the name of morality!

If God's word = Objective Morality, then how does one explain that shift?

Deuteronomy 13 freaking 6 Wes! If your brother, your son, your daughter, your wife - those you love most dearly - if any of them try to tell you to worship some other god - You murder those frakkers Wes. You pelt those frakkers with stones, without hesitation or pity, until they lay dead in a bloody pulp at your feet.
God commands this, and it is absolutely objective and can not ever be wrong.
SO IT IS WRITTEN WES! SO IT SHALL BE DONE!!!

You're not the id10t Wes, I am. I should have quit this game when I had the chance! But no, Jatravartid me - here I am again reigniting the debate. I'm a freaking Arthur.

I'm a Arthur because even though I KNOW, with absolute certainty that there is no reasoning with a person of faith - I still couldn't help myself.

Anyway, yeah - subjugating women, incest, stoning people to death, murdering people who don't believe in the right god - all these horrible things and more, apparently A-OK according to the bible.

ACCORDING TO GOD'S OWN LAWS AS THEY WERE WRITTEN!

You see Wes, in the last hour I was doing more research on this objective morality thing, and I learned quite a bit. For one thing, I learned that in the context of religion, it is complete and utter horsesh!t. So now I'm kinda pissed off and worked into a lather.

Oh, I know, you faithful have all the convenient rationalizations and moving targets, and all the nonsensical answers that have been honed by the brainwashers over centuries to confound those of us who are truly enlightened, but I don't want to hear it.

So F you Wes. F you and your "cure" and your illogical hypocrisy.

I am now, most certainly, going to go and pay homage to almighty Jah.

WesPorter wrote:Why is killing wrong then? Who made up that rule. Earlier someone was talking about how the Mayan's killed people to please their gods. Why is that wrong?

You keep sneaking objective morality in by the claims you make.

Why is killing wrong? Well, in all cases it isn't. As I said, the world isn't black and white, and the same goes for morality. Sometimes, what must be done, must be done. The Mayans' sacrifice of people to their gods wasn't wrong, because that's what was acceptable at that time. They believed in multiple gods and that they wanted human sacrifices.

Nowadays, people look back on those times in the history books and laugh. However, I'm certain that sometime in the future, christianity, islam, judaism, etc. will all be looked back upon as primitive once people move on to another humanic way to rationalize what they don't understand.


Religious nuts are no better than heroin junkies. They both need their fix to function on a daily basis. They both feel lost without their drug. Inversely, my lack of any religion leaves me free for more important things like living without fear of being judged or punished when my life comes to an end.

WesPorter wrote:Well there you go. You just lost a woot! customer. Buh bye.

After all the stuff they have written this is the tipping point? I find this funny.

It's raining, and I can't go play outside, so I decided to read a Wootbot post. While it does not surprise me at all that silly Wootbot's a stoner, considering some of the crap he posts on Deals, this particular blog is one I wholeheartedly support.

Mind you, I don't even take tylenol (or aspirin, or ibuprofen), but I know that the decriminalization of drugs would do an enormous amount to reduce gang crime, remove otherwise decent people from the prison system, and we could tax it silly, which would help the economy.

Smoke pot and get behind the wheel? That's a crime, and you'll be headed to jail. Smoke (or sell) and don't otherwise break laws? Go for it. Personally, I'd like to see the government out of the morality business.

I don't smoke anything. Never have. I'm also a fan of live and let live. Even crazy wes porter (and WHOA! he's a crazy one, I've got to say).

Where's the lolcats when you need them?

I don't know what I find more hilarious: The obstinate refusal of WesPorter to just quit responding while getting more snippy and offended each time, or the fact that his avatar is brandishing a knife.



Also, I'd like to know if WesPorter is an Emersonian or not. I think some good ol' Ralph Waldo Emerson could do him good. Divine Creator? Check. Live and Let Live over "creative supplements"? Check.