Every two to three years I get so frustrated with my PC that I replace it, hoping the newest Win OS will be better. I've gone through four Dells now, because they've been the highest rated until recently, and because when I worked at Radio Shack, selling IBMs etc. out front, the company was using Dells in the back. I've heard both sides of the Apple argument for decades.
I'm again ready to toss my PC out the window, and have been wondering if I should try going over to the Dark Side. Reading these eleven pages has not helped, nor has reading Mac user forums.
But I have just now ordered this Woot. Can't be worse; indications are it will be better.
I'll let you know in 2 - 3 years...

lazzyz wrote:Its worth posting a link to this recertified iMac, with a faster processor, 4 GB RAM and 1 TB HDD.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883104073

I guess it depends if you need a mouse and keyboard.

Definitely not a faster processor, unless you are running software that is much more optimized for dual core than quad core.

These are in stock refurb direct from apple for $1019 with FREE shipping.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC309LL/A

kgovert007 wrote:http://aupdates.wordpress.com/2011/12/17/top-10-most-secure-operating-systems/

Given that it didn't even list Windows 7 - which has been out for some time and which is by far the most secure version of Windows yet - and didn't differentiate any OS X versions (despite differentiating many different Windows versions and despite the fact each successive OS X version - like each successive Windows version - has been more secure) makes me see this as antiquated FUD.

Can OS X Lion be exploited? Sure. So can _any_ OS. But it's less _likely_ to be exploited, as history has shown. If it truly is the least secure OS out there - as your link says - then I am confused as to how an OS used by roughly 100 million people, most of whom were able to buy a premium-priced system and few of whom do _anything_ to safeguard the OS, haven't seen any real issues in over a decade.

If you invest the effort in securing OS X that you would in securing Windows, you'd have a system that's at least as bulletproof - since most of what you need to do is not use an admin account day-to-day and to use Time Machine to backup your system.

So, if someone is intending to buy this system, don't worry about attacks on it. They're less likely than attacks on any Windows system you'll get. It's not impossible to be attacked, but that statement is true of any system you connect to the Internet.

A computer is a computer. The computer you are using now to read this is the one for you, be it a PC, Apple or whatever?

This only seems to be $150 off the brand-new Apple asking price, and you can get it a few bucks cheaper refurbed from amazon if you miss out on this deal. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B004YKXGIK/ref=dp_olp_refurbished?ie=UTF8&qid=1324756765&sr=8-1-fkmr0&condition=refurbished
Or for even cheaper refurbed by Apple http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC309LL/A?fnode=Njc4MjQzOQ

I understand both sides of the apple windows thing, but I hope we don't discourage someone who might enjoy this computer. Just wanted to add my thoughts: I have 2 macs and around 20 windows. The windows computers get the job of 11 computers done, and do okay when they aren't mysteriously failing. I want to be a windows supporter, but I have to believe that there is something better. Really, macs don't have to be perfect to do that. So the windows are like old cars that you drive around knowing that it will break down but you don't mind the risk. The bloat ware is like having dents and bumper stickers all over it.
Macs should be perfect for their cost, and never break down. But they do, and AppleCare only partially makes up for it. They are like the Lexus that will probably never break down, will still feel new 6 years later, but every once in a while breaks down during the first month you had it, making you wonder why you overspent.
My IT horse whisperers love the windows because once you commit most of your lifelong potential to the art of fixing the windows computers, then they feel more reasonable. But if you make money doing something besides that, you are better off sticking to your specialty.

(John_Cleese ON)
And now for something completely different...
(John_Cleese OFF)

It's 2:30 p.m., and North Dakota is in the sales lead. Wonder why that is...

Woot!, I'll give ya a shiny new dime for all of your sales / demographic data! OH... WAIT... I'll bet that that was one of the reasons why Amazon bought ya!

Wow - on Christmas Eve, the haters come out to play at woot.com!

It's a computer. A good computer. There are other good computers. And Woot offers them here from time to time, too. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you do, buy it. Simple, and non-confrontational. No name-calling needed, and no performance comparisons necessary. Different strokes for different folks. That's all.

Merry Christmas.

Had to pull the trigger on this one. $150 off retail, no sales tax and $5 shipping.

wow, with 4,000 more i can buy a house in phoenix AZ

dgingerich wrote:I run my own computer repair business, and yes, Macs are less likely to get infected, but it's mostly because they aren't creating malware for Macs. It doesn't pay to put out something that 10% of the population has. However, this year, there have been several malware programs pushed out for Macs.

I use free anti-virus software on my PC's, and I haven't had an infection in more than 10 years. It's more about being smart and installing updates for things like Adobe Flash and Java when they ask you to. Don't download all those "free" screensavers and games and you'll be fine.

Macs are great machines, but so are most PC's, once you get away from the bottom end. I just can't justify paying 40-100% more for nearly identical hardware. Most Macs now use the same hardware as PC's, so the reliability isn't much different. You'd better buy the extra Apple Care because most computer repair shops charge more to work on Macs as well. The software difference just isn't worth it. Save your money, buy a PC and Windows for Dummies book.

Yep, exactly my problem with buying a Mac. I've wanted to get one for years due to some unique apps for the Mac. But every time I get serious about buying one, I can't swallow the price that Apple is asking for what is essentially just aesthetically pleasing PC-Hardware. "Price gouging" is the only phrase that adequately describes what Apple does to their customers.

I'm ready to break out "We are the World"

Roostalee wrote:I'm not sure they were ever made here in the US, but I could be wrong. My 20-year-old Mac Classic was made in Singapore, the "land of caning."

Original Mac to Mac plus were made in Fremont CA. Then came other CA based facilities, then other parts of the world ending in china. The white MacBook in 2000 started the transition to china. Haven't found a definitive history of manufacturing locations.

Buying this for my wife to finish off the Mac collection. Great Woot.

TheR0CK wrote:1 monitor power cable
1 pc power cable
1 monitor video cable (analog, hdmi or dvi)
1 keyboard cable
1 mouse cable
1 microphone cable
3 speaker cables (1 to the sound card 1 to the speaker power supply 1 between the 2 speakers).

I don't use mac. I work on PCs every day, and cable management is one of the things people are always concerned about. So yes I would consider 9 cables a nest, and that is the typical number of cables you get with a PC that is not an "all in one", the original poster was correct, this iMac requires just a power cable and he could replace a nest with 1.

You however fail at your attempt to minimize the cable management issue, however you did successfully display you have mastered being a snarky prick. Congratulations and Merry Christmas.

Let me help you minimize your cable management issues:
1 PC power cord
1 Video power cord
1 video data cable
1 audio cable

In my case, the audio cable goes to an A/V receiver that also supports a small home theater in my home office. The computer is also a multimedia server.
For someone who "work(s) on PCs every day", you forgot the network cable most likely found in a large office setting. You can also eliminate the most tedious of cables: a good cordless keyboard and mouse can be found for under $40. Why you have a microphone plugged in and no camera is baffling.

[/snark]



Bazinga!

Well, I guess we got the "Airing of Grievences" out of the way, even if it was a day late. The brushed aluminum Festivus Pole is still up afterall, and... hey, wait just a second... brushed aluminum? I think we know which religion the "Festivus for the rest of us" represents, now don't we... ;-)

But seriously, Wooty Christmas to all! If you partook of this deal, I hope it serves you well for many years. Hopefully I will get a Festivus Miracle and my $385 Woot HP will last equally as long and be equally trouble free...

u2artv wrote:These are in stock refurb direct from apple for $1019 with FREE shipping.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC309LL/A

I rather take the woot deal. New vs refurb difference is probably less than $30.

Can't believe Apple still wants its loyal customers to purchase thunderbolt-to-whatever cables for video out on a $1,000 computer.

For all the folks who like shiny things--I hope this purchase works out for you.

Wow, four twenty...I could have saved on this woot. Shoulda waited!

The $5 shipping puts it over the top for me. No thanks.

antipode wrote:Oh boy, bundled apps, aka bloat.

1) Maybe it's the world's most advanced ten year old operating system.
2) Windows Live Mail, Gmail - free
3) Windows Live Mail, Gmail, or use your phone like everyone else - free
4) Gmail, -free
5) Skype, -free
6) Windows Photo Viewer. If you're talking about sharing capabilities, right-click the picture in Explorer - built in
7) iWishyouwouldn't, but Microsoft Movie Maker or Virtual Dub - free
8) LMMS - free, or get FL Studio to blow everything else out of the water with free updates for life

Oh look, you just built a PC and got all of that functionality for $600 less.

Obviously I am not talking to people like you who have already shut down their minds on Mac. That is fine; but, if you’ve never used iPhoto, iMovie, or Garageband—don’t be so quick to put them down by equating these to PC throwaways. Do the homework. Reviews by professional photographers, musicians, and artists have recognized iMovie and Garageband for being equal to or better than PC programs costing $300-$500 on the open market. My $500 ballpark figure was conservation, actually.

Don’t take my work for it—ask a friend you trust who has actually used these applications. Check out Consumers Reports. And Apple Mail Is waaaaayyyy better than Yahoo, Gmail, and Outlook could every be. Do you actually know anyone who really likes Outlook—especially the older editions?

I am speaking from 20 years experience using PCs at work and Macs at home.

Of course, I’ve got no monetary stake in this argument—which has and will continue to go on indefinitely. I just ask readers of these comments to check out the different machines themselves and make up their own minds, based on personal need, budget, and common sense. Whatever one’s decision, whether it be for PC or Mac, I believe he/she gets what they pay for. The key is to get what you need.

Have a Very Merry Christmas!

YFZblu wrote:Can't believe Apple still wants its loyal customers to purchase thunderbolt-to-whatever cables for video out on a $1,000 computer.

The thunderbolt port is compatible with mini display port so you can use the regular display port cables for video output. Plenty of cheapo displayport->hdmi/dvi/whatever cables on amazon. No need for the ridiculously overpriced thunderbolt cable for video out.

philnerd wrote:The thunderbolt port is compatible with mini display port so you can use the regular display port cables for video output. Plenty of cheapo displayport->hdmi/dvi/whatever cables on amazon. No need for the ridiculously overpriced thunderbolt cable for video out.

Point being, IMO, it is insulting to try to nickel and dime people who are arguably the most loyal customers in tech. Apple should be proving standard video out connectors on machines as expensive as these. Of course there are cheap-o cables out there, but Apple isn't telling their customers to buy cabling at Amazon.

The next natural response is: But they should do their research and they won't be overspending!

The next natural answer: If they were doing their researching and not overspending, then Apple would have far fewer customers purchasing their computers.

PS: OS X does rock though. Hackintosh4lyfe and all that jazz.

Phenomenal deal. If you haven't given Mac OS a shot, do it. You'll be very well pleased. AND, remember, you can always dual boot. This is a mad machine that will make you very happy for many years.

daiuy wrote:Every two to three years I get so frustrated with my PC that I replace it, hoping the newest Win OS will be better. I've gone through four Dells now, because they've been the highest rated until recently, and because when I worked at Radio Shack, selling IBMs etc. out front, the company was using Dells in the back. I've heard both sides of the Apple argument for decades.
I'm again ready to toss my PC out the window, and have been wondering if I should try going over to the Dark Side. Reading these eleven pages has not helped, nor has reading Mac user forums.
But I have just now ordered this Woot. Can't be worse; indications are it will be better.
I'll let you know in 2 - 3 years...

Do it. You'll be VERY happy you did. Promise!

What will always prevent me from buying any Apple product is that they are not modifiable and they charge ridiculous prices for more memory. I used a Mac at my office when OSX came out and it was terrible. Each year they made you pay another $100 for the new version which included the software they didn't include from the previous OS.

Now, with their iphones and ipods, they charge your $100-$150 to go from 8GB to 16GB to 32GB of memory. What costs them a nickel, costs you $100. While every other mp3 player and phone uses flash cards for extra storage, not Apple.

Jobs was brilliant at making their electronics trendy, so that fools and their money are soon departed.

bigshtank wrote:
I used a Mac at my office when OSX came out and it was terrible. Each year they made you pay another $100 for the new version which included the software they didn't include from the previous OS.

The last two major versions of the OS were priced at $30. Not shabby and a *lot* less than a Windows upgrade. Plus no one "made" anyone buy the upgrade.

bigshtank wrote:
Now, with their iphones and ipods, they charge your $100-$150 to go from 8GB to 16GB to 32GB of memory. What costs them a nickel, costs you $100. While every other mp3 player and phone uses flash cards for extra storage, not Apple.

Yes the money they charge for more memory is ridiculous. In fact, its exactly as ridiculous as the money that Rim, Samsung, Motorola and HP charged for memory on their android/webos products. Its a bit narrow minded to pretend that this is an Apple-only phenomena. Ditto on flash card expansion which is hit or miss at best on competing products. Case in point: Amazon shipped the Fire without any expansion.

Any event, pewpewing flash prices on iPhones is just part of the general anti-apple temper tantrums taking place here which actually have nothing to do with the iMac.

Perhaps YOU can build a better one. For those of us who only want to plug and play, Macs are the bomb. Because I am broke, I'm between Macs (2 in 11 trouble-free years, my 1996 power book still boots up fine) so I have a virus riddled ASUS that crashes regularly. Lucky I have a friend who thinks fixing his friends' computers is the best way to spend his free time or I would be computer free.

Tempted to further blow the budget.

bigshtank wrote:What will always prevent me from buying any Apple product is that they are not modifiable and they charge ridiculous prices for more memory. I used a Mac at my office when OSX came out and it was terrible. Each year they made you pay another $100 for the new version which included the software they didn't include from the previous OS.

Now, with their iphones and ipods, they charge your $100-$150 to go from 8GB to 16GB to 32GB of memory. What costs them a nickel, costs you $100. While every other mp3 player and phone uses flash cards for extra storage, not Apple.

Jobs was brilliant at making their electronics trendy, so that fools and their money are soon departed.

1. To be fair, nobody in their right mind should WANT to modify an All-In-One computer. IMO too much hassle with the casing and typically things are soldered together in small form-factor for efficiency.

2. Don't Mac OS upgrades only cost $29? As opposed to the Windows 7 upgrade which was ~$60 the last time I checked.

I don't see any included software other than the OS. What about Word? How much if I have to buy separately? How much is the Apple Care?

tacomamama wrote:I don't see any included software other than the OS. What about Word? How much if I have to buy separately? How much is the Apple Care?

MSoffice doesn't come standard on the vast majority of new PCs, unless it's the trial version or unless you pay to have it installed beforehand.

Student discounts for MSoffice can be had for ~$99. Otherwise prices vary depending where you're shopping. Definitely take the time to research Office prices...

Are Macs higher quality?

My Macs are not necessarily better quality than my Dell or Thinkpads. I have had to replace the power supply on a 2006 mac Pro, the optical drive fan on a 20" iMac, had the built in iSight on my 24" iMac failed (did not fix), and exchanged an AC adpater for an 11" MacBook Air recently. Granted, I own a lot of Macs so it sounds like a lot of issues when I list them all at once, and keep in mind this is over 10 years of Mac ownership with new Macs every 1-2 years. On my PCs, my Thinkpad batteries lasted no more than two years, but I can't think of anything hardware wise that went wrong on my Dell desktops or thinkpad laptops.

I don't spend a lot of time tinkering with the OS on my Macs. I was always messing with my PCs to try and get Windows more streamlined and speed up the machine. With my macs i am more inclined to just let them be. Setting up a PC takes more time compared to a Mac.

I prefer buying Macs and running Windows 7 using vmware when I need windows. I definitely love Apple design aesthetics so that's a huge reason why I continue to buy Macs.

tacomamama wrote:I don't see any included software other than the OS. What about Word? How much if I have to buy separately? How much is the Apple Care?

Applecare for this mac looks to be just over $130 on Amazon.

Not sure how much Office is, I assume similar to the Windows version. There's also the free OpenOffice for Mac.

Apple includes pretty decent software with OS X, including apps for photos, movies and music. My favorite is Garage Band, its extremely capable. Wish I had time to use it

Well, in one of the black hat get togethers out west, 3 machines were set up with a "plant an executable and run it to install a root kit" challenge.

The Mac Pro went first.. Took 5 minutes. Guy grabbed the laptop (that was the prize - you compromize it... you take it home.) The 7th day of the contest, the Windows machine was taken (Very close to the end of the contest).

How was it taken? A java/Flash vulnerability. As the winner of the Dell said "This would have worked on ANY of the machines in the room. I just had Windows development tools with me." -- The problem wasn't the OS, it was the apps loaded on the system. (That was back after Sp1 was released for Vista, by the way..)

When it comes to curing vulnerabilities, apple has a horrible record. 3 1/2 years to fix a *trivial* problem with iTunes? That allowed people to plant root kits on ANY system? Now THAT is quality code.

ernesto47 wrote:wow, with 4,000 more i can buy a house in phoenix AZ

Does it come with a mouse?

bunnyma357 wrote:I have an older 24" iMac Core 2 Duo and really love it - best computer I've ever used - for me, it's been more productive than even far more powerful MacPro cpu's. But like any computer it is only a tool.

As a small business, time I am not billing, costs me money - and for me, a non-IT creative person, I can spend far less time on non-billable IT type tasks with a Mac, so that within a month the premium cost of the Mac is washed out. I keep a computer from 4-6 years, so over the course of a computer's life the Mac is a no-brainer.

Others may have different skills, knowledge and computing needs, and they should get the computer that works for their situation. I just wish they wouldn't try to tell me that I am a brainwashed sheep for choosing the proper tool for the job.

For me the big flaws in the Mac are lack of support for USB 3, eSATA, and BluRay.

In my experience the Intel Macs also seem to be a little more crash prone and likely to have hardware "lockups" particularly with FireWire - but they have still proven to be more trouble free for me than PC's I have used at other facilities.

PC reliability and ease of use may have changed with Windows 7, but I would need substantial proof that the PC is stable and productive, since switching from Mac to PC would require a minimum $3k software investment for me on top of the computer.

If it appeals to you - these iMacs are wonderful tools.

PC users tend equate value with specs. Mac users equate value with performance, usability, and reliability. I use PC's at home and Mac's at work. It's a no brainer for me that the Mac's are more reliable, perform more consistently, and are easier to use. I'd switch if I didn't have so much invested in Windows machines. I plan to do it gradually and start with a MacBook Air.

billblom wrote:Well, in one of the black hat get togethers out west, 3 machines were set up with a "plant an executable and run it to install a root kit" challenge.

The Mac Pro went first.. Took 5 minutes. Guy grabbed the laptop (that was the prize - you compromize it... you take it home.) The 7th day of the contest, the Windows machine was taken (Very close to the end of the contest).

How was it taken? A java/Flash vulnerability. As the winner of the Dell said "This would have worked on ANY of the machines in the room. I just had Windows development tools with me." -- The problem wasn't the OS, it was the apps loaded on the system. (That was back after Sp1 was released for Vista, by the way..)

When it comes to curing vulnerabilities, apple has a horrible record. 3 1/2 years to fix a *trivial* problem with iTunes? That allowed people to plant root kits on ANY system? Now THAT is quality code.

Yep. Privilege escalation is a legitimate issue with Apple. IIRC OS X also features 1100 network-based vulnerabilities over the last few years compared to Windows ~1300. I'll need to track down the documentation I was reviewing...Obviously the long story short is that the internet isn't a safe place no matter what OS you're using.

I bought one 2 days ago for my Dad... wish I bought it here for less $$$! Thanks for the tip on the magic mouse and the RAM.

buffaloed wrote:PC users tend equate value with specs. Mac users equate value with performance, usability, and reliability. I use PC's at home and Mac's at work. It's a no brainer for me that the Mac's are more reliable, perform more consistently, and are easier to use. I'd switch if I didn't have so much invested in Windows machines. I plan to do it gradually and start with a MacBook Air.

Consider also that the network Mac PCs you're referring to are probably attached to some really expensive networking equipment, which is attached to dedicated WAN links and loads of bandwidth (depending on your employer). The increase in performance and reliability you're referring to could very well be attributed to a collection of devices.

No doubt Apple computers are easy to use, so I don't want to discredit the point you make there. My work-issued phone is an iPhone and I love it. Of course, my personal phone is a Blackberry that I'd love to throw into a lake so consider that...