Man, I miss the days when Stacker = ephedrine.

Darn! I logged on to pick up the NoXplode mega powder keg. I guess it was pretty popular

whtrice82 wrote:I don't think he missed the sarcasm. He got it and understood it but, the "joke" is based off false information, therefore nullifying the sarcasm.
"The blind leading the blind."

Blind to what? False information? Lets sharpen our pencils here... If you have a product that needs to be sold, it takes money, nothing else. Money to buy tests, money to bribe, and money to lobby. Poster child: Michael Taylor - FDA Deputy Commissioner of Food

That's not false info.; anyone with half a wit can inherently understand the sarcastic tone written. Don't further embarrass yourself by standing up for someone who clearly missed the quip and is trying to save face.

whtrice82 wrote:I don't think he missed the sarcasm. He got it and understood it but, the "joke" is based off false information, therefore nullifying the sarcasm.
"The blind leading the blind."

bpr2 wrote:^ As a med student, shouldn't you know what the damages these things can do?

as a previous medical student. yes we know the danger of this product, yes we tell our patient not to take it. BUT we do it because we need to be kept awake.
do you know how to survive wake up for 40 hours straight without any caffeine?
bottom line as a doctor this is my advice to my patient.
"DO WHAT I TOLD YOU NOT WHAT I DID"

drspiffness wrote:Blind to what? False information? Lets sharpen our pencils here... If you have a product that needs to be sold, it takes money, nothing else. Money to buy tests, money to bribe, and money to lobby. Poster child: Michael Taylor - FDA Deputy Commissioner of Food

You are missing the point. You can't be sarcastic about something when you don't understand what you are talking about. The FDA has nothing to do with nutritional supplements. They don't approve or reject them. The only time they get involved is if some issue is discovered after the product comes to market and there are complaints regarding its safety. So your conspiracy theory is useless, because you don't have to bribe the FDA for anything here- hence making your attempt at sarcasm illogical.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/default.htm
The manufacturer of a dietary supplement or dietary ingredient is responsible for ensuring that the product is safe before it is marketed.
FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market.
Generally, manufacturers do not need to register their products with FDA or get FDA approval before producing or selling dietary supplements.

Tsika wrote:That's not false info.; anyone with half a wit can inherently understand the sarcastic tone written. Don't further embarrass yourself by standing up for someone who clearly missed the quip and is trying to save face.

Don't further embarrass yourself by not understanding that sarcasm isn't effective if the logic behind it is lacking. Trying to be sarcastic about the FDA would only work if they had anything to do with approval of these supplements- but they don't. So maybe you can explain the punchline to me?

twinn47 wrote:I think you missed the sarcasm

Heh. I did, too, at first, and might have stayed that way (if only because there are some (albeit dwindling in numbers) people who think like that -- well, also that I'm really literal and somewhat sarcasm-impaired), but was swayed by the italic "ever."

gak0090 wrote:You are missing the point. You can't be sarcastic about something when you don't understand what you are talking about. The FDA has nothing to do with nutritional supplements. They don't approve or reject them. The only time they get involved is if some issue is discovered after the product comes to market and there are complaints regarding its safety. So your conspiracy theory is useless, because you don't have to bribe the FDA for anything here- hence making your attempt at sarcasm illogical.

http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/default.htm
The manufacturer of a dietary supplement or dietary ingredient is responsible for ensuring that the product is safe before it is marketed.
FDA is responsible for taking action against any unsafe dietary supplement product after it reaches the market.
Generally, manufacturers do not need to register their products with FDA or get FDA approval before producing or selling dietary supplements.

Under FDA regulations at 21 CFR part 111, all domestic and foreign companies that manufacture, package, label or hold dietary supplement, including those involved with testing, quality control, and dietary supplement distribution in the U.S., must comply with the Dietary Supplement Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMPs) for quality control.

"In addition, the manufacturer, packer, or distributor whose name appears on the label of a dietary supplement marketed in the United States is required to submit to FDA all serious adverse event reports associated with use of the dietary supplement in the United States.

FDA's responsibilities include product information, such as labeling, claims, package inserts, and accompanying literature. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) regulates dietary supplement advertising.

Domestic and foreign facilities that manufacture, process, pack, or hold food for human or animal consumption in the United States are required to register their facility with FDA. For more information, see Registration of Food Facilities."

If you had read the rest of the page you quoted, you would have noticed the parts where the FDA regulate every single company involved from production, testing, packaging, and distributing. The FDA officials are appointed by federal government. These officials are almost all professionals from the industry in which they are now regulating. There is an extreme conflict of interest occurring in the FDA and nothing is being done about it. You honestly think there is no corruption in this system? Choke on that "conspiracy theory."

drspiffness wrote:Under FDA regulations at 21 CFR part 111, all domestic and foreign companies that manufacture, package, label or hold dietary supplement, including those involved with testing, quality control, and dietary supplement distribution in the U.S., must comply with the Dietary Supplement Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMPs) for quality control.

"In addition, the manufacturer, packer, or distributor whose name appears on the label of a dietary supplement marketed in the United States is required to submit to FDA all serious adverse event reports associated with use of the dietary supplement in the United States.

FDA's responsibilities include product information, such as labeling, claims, package inserts, and accompanying literature. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) regulates dietary supplement advertising.

Domestic and foreign facilities that manufacture, process, pack, or hold food for human or animal consumption in the United States are required to register their facility with FDA. For more information, see Registration of Food Facilities."

If you had read the rest of the page you quoted, you would have noticed the parts where the FDA regulate every single company involved from production, testing, packaging, and distributing. The FDA officials are appointed by federal government. These officials are almost all professionals from the industry in which they are now regulating. There is an extreme conflict of interest occurring in the FDA and nothing is being done about it. You honestly think there is no corruption in this system? Choke on that "conspiracy theory."

+WOOT! for pwnage

drspiffness wrote:Under FDA regulations at 21 CFR part 111, all domestic and foreign companies that manufacture, package, label or hold dietary supplement, including those involved with testing, quality control, and dietary supplement distribution in the U.S., must comply with the Dietary Supplement Current Good Manufacturing Practices (CGMPs) for quality control.

"In addition, the manufacturer, packer, or distributor whose name appears on the label of a dietary supplement marketed in the United States is required to submit to FDA all serious adverse event reports associated with use of the dietary supplement in the United States.

FDA's responsibilities include product information, such as labeling, claims, package inserts, and accompanying literature. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) regulates dietary supplement advertising.

Domestic and foreign facilities that manufacture, process, pack, or hold food for human or animal consumption in the United States are required to register their facility with FDA. For more information, see Registration of Food Facilities."

If you had read the rest of the page you quoted, you would have noticed the parts where the FDA regulate every single company involved from production, testing, packaging, and distributing. The FDA officials are appointed by federal government. These officials are almost all professionals from the industry in which they are now regulating. There is an extreme conflict of interest occurring in the FDA and nothing is being done about it. You honestly think there is no corruption in this system? Choke on that "conspiracy theory."

Ok beautiful mind, its nice that you could actually go to my link and read the rest of the page- it's a shame that your comprehension fails you though. It seems you missed the part of the argument that was pertinent- the fact that those products come to market and they DO NOT REQUIRE FDA APPROVAL IN MOST CASES. So pack up all you paranoia and move to some place where you can join a nice friendly militia and talk about how everyone is out to get you.

gak0090 wrote:Ok beautiful mind, its nice that you could actually go to my link and read the rest of the page- it's a shame that your comprehension fails you though. It seems you missed the part of the argument that was pertinent- the fact that those products come to market and they DO NOT REQUIRE FDA APPROVAL IN MOST CASES. So pack up all you paranoia and move to some place where you can join a nice friendly militia and talk about how everyone is out to get you.

True! They do not require FDA approval in most cases. They just need to manufacture it by an approved registered factory using a regulated process, testing it with an approved registered company, Labeling it with regulated labeling methods, delivering it with a registered approved distributor, and advertised using FTA regulations.

drspiffness wrote:True! They do not require FDA approval in most cases. They just need to manufacture it by an approved registered factory using a regulated process, testing it with an approved registered company, Labeling it with regulated labeling methods, delivering it with a registered approved distributor, and advertised using FTA regulations.

Let us assume you have a drivers license. This would imply that you are registered to drive with the state. Being a licensed driver means you have to follow all the guidelines and laws issued by the state. If you go out, get liquered up and kill someone while driving home-> is the bureau of motor vehicles in your state responsible for your actions because they issued that license? This is the argument your are making.

By no means do I think the FDA is perfect, but comparing them to other agencies around the world you will find that they are probably the most stringent. Drugs like thalidomide that were approved for morning sickness back in the 1960's across the world were blocked by the FDA here, consequently the thalidomide babies that were born in the US with flippers instead of limbs was because those mothers obtained the drug from Canada or Europe. Everyone is trying to blame the whole NECC (spinal fungal infections) on the FDA, when it was not even the FDA's responsibility (it was States responsibility for those compounding facilities)- the FDA stepped in to help mitigate the damages in the end and create better criteria for hospitals to use when selecting a compounding facility.

If you want to blame the FDA for something- get on them for not doing more to ease the massive drug shortages that are occurring in hospitals- these are driving health care costs way up and forcing hospitals to resort to compounding facilities to make their drugs.

gak0090 wrote:Let us assume you have a drivers license. This would imply that you are registered to drive with the state. Being a licensed driver means you have to follow all the guidelines and laws issued by the state. If you go out, get liquered up and kill someone while driving home-> is the bureau of motor vehicles in your state responsible for your actions because they issued that license? This is the argument your are making.

By no means do I think the FDA is perfect, but comparing them to other agencies around the world you will find that they are probably the most stringent. Drugs like thalidomide that were approved for morning sickness back in the 1960's across the world were blocked by the FDA here, consequently the thalidomide babies that were born in the US with flippers instead of limbs was because those mothers obtained the drug from Canada or Europe. Everyone is trying to blame the whole NECC (spinal fungal infections) on the FDA, when it was not even the FDA's responsibility (it was States responsibility for those compounding facilities)- the FDA stepped in to help mitigate the damages in the end and create better criteria for hospitals to use when selecting a compounding facility.

If you want to blame the FDA for something- get on them for not doing more to ease the massive drug shortages that are occurring in hospitals- these are driving health care costs way up and forcing hospitals to resort to compounding facilities to make their drugs.

Well put. But the argument that I was making was not in support of nanny state style regulation.

Lets run a probable scenario. Stacker 2 Extreme shots is made by NVE Pharmaceuticals. NVE Pharmaceuticals is a member of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. PhRMA employs 20 lobbyists and makes large donations to both sides of all political campaigns. They lobby for less regulations, or stricter regulations on non PhRMA competition. They also lobby for positions in the FDA. If Stacker 2 extreme energy shots was actually harming you, how would you know? The FDA would never be able to report it because the system is broken.

If there is a shortage of drugs in the hospitals, its because the PhRMA wants it this way. They have the FDA in their pocket. Health care costs are on the rise. Insurance costs are on the rise. And guess what... they passed a national health insurance mandate through congress. In this context I repeat: Good thing we live in a society where the FDA has our best interests at heart. Maybe we should just pick our health insurance package, keep paying taxes, and petition the FDA to help ease the drug shortage in our hospitals.