dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

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SkekTek wrote:Turn on CNN. Every 20 minutes or so there's a story about Hillary Clinton...



YOU ARE REQUIRED IN THIS COURSE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DISSECTION OF A RAT.
To think, I use to like you!
Is this a non majors course?
Why does an intellgent creature have to give up its life for people who aren't going to use it in the future?
(that argument didn't work very well when I took bio either. The real reason was the insides didn't look anything like the pictures in the textbook)

Bad, bad man!

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

terrimeyers wrote:

At least sprinkle some good fairy dust over your keyboard to contain it.



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ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

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dontwantaname wrote:YOU ARE REQUIRED IN THIS COURSE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DISSECTION OF A RAT.
To think, I use to like you!
Is this a non majors course?
Why does an intellgent creature have to give up its life for people who aren't going to use it in the future?
(that argument didn't work very well when I took bio either. The real reason was the insides didn't look anything like the pictures in the textbook)

Bad, bad man!



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no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
dontwantaname wrote:Is there a penalty since no1 didn't post his hourly post?



Ms. Name,

It's only supposed to be hourly if nobody else posts. At least one post per hour should appear in PWA.

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

Puppies! Brownie is trying to wake the others.



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terrimeyers


quality posts: 2 Private Messages terrimeyers
no1 wrote:



and your point is? you lookin for another smack?


Thanks SS for my new togs!

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
terrimeyers wrote:and your point is? you lookin for another smack?


Ms. Terri,

I'm collecting smacks for UNICEF.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

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daj59 wrote:Puppies! Brownie is trying to wake the others.

A couple are very good at resisting.



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ThunderThighs


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Staff

Whoa. Just got doggie nose cam.



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terrimeyers


quality posts: 2 Private Messages terrimeyers
no1 wrote:Ms. Terri,

I'm collecting smacks for UNICEF.


//SAMCK
//SMACK
//SMACK

there! have i done my part now?


Thanks SS for my new togs!

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
terrimeyers wrote://SAMCK



..."samck?"

kenney9226


quality posts: 6 Private Messages kenney9226
no1 wrote:..."samck?"



it's like a small sammich you eat between full meals, like a samck.

terrimeyers


quality posts: 2 Private Messages terrimeyers
no1 wrote:..."samck?"



that was the backhand smack


Thanks SS for my new togs!

dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

Volunteer Moderator

The puppy cam was under attack!!!
It survived. Sort of.

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

joyner


quality posts: 1 Private Messages joyner

Hey eyerybody, I'm finally back at a computer! I'm at the beach. Hubby just woke up from his nap so we have to go walk on the beach. BBL to catch up.

terrimeyers


quality posts: 2 Private Messages terrimeyers
dontwantaname wrote:The puppy cam was under attack!!!
It survived. Sort of.



rowdy bunch tonight keep knocking the cam around



Thanks SS for my new togs!

dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

Volunteer Moderator

terrimeyers wrote:rowdy bunch tonight keep knocking the cam around



One was determined to get it. Does it make noise?

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

terrimeyers


quality posts: 2 Private Messages terrimeyers
dontwantaname wrote:One was determined to get it. Does it make noise?



the cam? um...no


Thanks SS for my new togs!

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

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terrimeyers wrote:rowdy bunch tonight keep knocking the cam around

Probably shouldn't rub it in jerky before you put it in there.



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no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
daj59 wrote:Probably shouldn't rub it in jerky before you put it in there.


Ms. Daj,
Probably a wise decision in many situations. I think I'll put it in the Random Quotes thread.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

no1 wrote:Ms. Daj,
Probably a wise decision in many situations. I think I'll put it in the Random Quotes thread.

Sigh. Thank you.



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terrimeyers


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no1 wrote:Ms. Daj,
Probably a wise decision in many situations. I think I'll put it in the Random Quotes thread.


if you don't, then I will


Thanks SS for my new togs!

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 547 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

terrimeyers wrote:if you don't, then I will

You're no help.



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terrimeyers


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heading home. woohoo! catch y'all in a bit.


Thanks SS for my new togs!

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
dontwantaname wrote:YOU ARE REQUIRED IN THIS COURSE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE DISSECTION OF A RAT.
To think, I use to like you!
Is this a non majors course?
Why does an intellgent creature have to give up its life for people who aren't going to use it in the future?
(that argument didn't work very well when I took bio either. The real reason was the insides didn't look anything like the pictures in the textbook)

Bad, bad man!



But we ARE using it... to learn basic surgical techniques... It's a staple in the Biology course arsenal, and has always been. Yes it's a non-majors course but see below. People who object must observe. People who strenuously object have an option: there is a dissection-free course- General Biology: Environmental focus.

Most of the students that take this course are pre-professionals, and if they're going to be either operating or assisting in operating on humans/animals or dealing with treatment of same, they better darn well have live experience in basic surgical and physiological techniques on something less sophisticated than a cat, dog or person. And a rat is much easier to justify than a pig, cat, or other large animal. You can't teach someone how to use scalpels, forceps, and being careful with tissue using a program, text, or simulation.

I love animals dearly, but sometimes animals must be used so that we may learn about ourselves and train the medical professionals of the future.

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
SkekTek wrote:Most of the students that take this course are pre-professionals, and if they're going to be either operating or assisting in operating on humans/animals or dealing with treatment of same, they better darn well have live experience in basic surgical and physiological techniques on something less sophisticated than a cat, dog or person. And a rat is much easier to justify than a pig, cat, or other large animal. You can't teach someone how to use scalpels, forceps, and being careful with tissue using a program, text, or simulation.

I love animals dearly, but sometimes animals must be used so that we may learn about ourselves and train the medical professionals of the future.


Prof. Tek,

I hope that the students eventually moving on to professional careers requiring surgical techniques don't have just this one dissection under their belts before they start on humans!

Ms. Name's objection to using rats brings to my mind a question: how about using other animals instead for this course, such as frogs, lizards, or birds?

Josephus


quality posts: 25 Private Messages Josephus
no1 wrote:Prof. Tek,

I hope that the students eventually moving on to professional careers requiring surgical techniques don't have just this one dissection under their belts before they start on humans!

Ms. Name's objection to using rats brings to my mind a question: how about using other animals instead for this course, such as frogs, lizards, or birds?



anatomically they are all very different from mammals.

As far as having just this one dissection under their belts, I dissected a mouse in the ninth grade, in biology class. Did I learn much? probably not a lot, but I was exposed to it and it did help me to appreciate what we are doing when we kill an animal to learn about biology. That exposure certainly helped me later when I had to do it in a more critical situation. This is something that we are very concerned about, and there is a LOT of concern amongst the scientific community that animals are killed for justifiable reason. We have animal care and use committees at every institution, who review every use of animals, in research and in teaching. This sort of work is pretty vital for people who are going into this sort of career. If this is their first dissection, there does have to be a first dissection for someone who is going to need to do dissections.

Generally, in college, graduate school, and medical school, live dissections are very much less common than they once were. They are quite necessary, however. Dissections of preserved tissues can really only show pretty basic anatomy.

SkekTek


quality posts: 17 Private Messages SkekTek
no1 wrote:Prof. Tek,

I hope that the students eventually moving on to professional careers requiring surgical techniques don't have just this one dissection under their belts before they start on humans!

Ms. Name's objection to using rats brings to my mind a question: how about using other animals instead for this course, such as frogs, lizards, or birds?



It's not like this is a dissection course- I only use 6 rats per class when I teach this.

Problem is they aren't mammals, so there are large differences in anatomy. Rats have very similar skin, organs, and placement compared to people, surprisingly enough.

And this is all I'm saying on the subject. This isn't the forum to debate animal welfare vs. use vs. rights. I have very strong opinions on the subject, and I'd rather not get into it. It's like arguing religion- you can't argue a position without offending someone deeply.


no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
Josephus wrote:anatomically they are all very different from mammals.



Dr. J,
Yes, but they still have blood vessels, organs, connective tissue, etc., right? If they're just starting out, are the anatomical differences so much that the students don't learn the general principles (as Prof. Tek said, "basic surgical and physiological techniques on something less sophisticated than a cat, dog or person")?

dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

Volunteer Moderator

SkekTek wrote:But we ARE using it... to learn basic surgical techniques... It's a staple in the Biology course arsenal, and has always been. Yes it's a non-majors course but see below. People who object must observe. People who strenuously object have an option: there is a dissection-free course- General Biology: Environmental focus.

Most of the students that take this course are pre-professionals, and if they're going to be either operating or assisting in operating on humans/animals or dealing with treatment of same, they better darn well have live experience in basic surgical and physiological techniques on something less sophisticated than a cat, dog or person. And a rat is much easier to justify than a pig, cat, or other large animal. You can't teach someone how to use scalpels, forceps, and being careful with tissue using a program, text, or simulation.

I love animals dearly, but sometimes animals must be used so that we may learn about ourselves and train the medical professionals of the future.



You know what you should do....dissect kids who partied too much and lost their scholarship money!

That might keep some kid in line.

Just keep away from my rats!

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
SkekTek wrote:And this is all I'm saying on the subject. This isn't the forum to debate animal welfare vs. use vs. rights. I have very strong opinions on the subject, and I'd rather not get into it. It's like arguing religion- you can't argue a position without offending someone deeply.


Fair enough, Prof. Tek. I guess I'll direct others to respond, if they want to.

SkekTek wrote:It's not like this is a dissection course- I only use 6 rats per class when I teach this.

Problem is they aren't mammals, so there are large differences in anatomy. Rats have very similar skin, organs, and placement compared to people, surprisingly enough.


OK, I thought the point was to expose the students to dissection, but if it's to teach anatomy, that is another beast entirely.

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
dontwantaname wrote:You know what you should do....dissect kids who partied too much and lost their scholarship money!

That might keep some kid in line.

Just keep away from my rats!



Ms. Name,
Your rats probably have too much fat for the students to be able to see much anatomy anyway.

dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

Volunteer Moderator

SkekTek wrote:It's not like this is a dissection course- I only use 6 rats per class when I teach this.

Problem is they aren't mammals, so there are large differences in anatomy. Rats have very similar skin, organs, and placement compared to people, surprisingly enough.

And this is all I'm saying on the subject. This isn't the forum to debate animal welfare vs. use vs. rights. I have very strong opinions on the subject, and I'd rather not get into it. It's like arguing religion- you can't argue a position without offending someone deeply.



I'm still mad that they made us kill the frog in a non major, community college class.
Plus the fact that the frog wasn''t as dead as they wanted it.

Don't worry, I'm not a PETA fanatic.
Whenever I get a chance to watch at the doctors office, I do. I have watched a fatty cyst removed from both my mom and my son's face. I almost told one of the Dr's to move, he was blocking my view.
One of the doctors actually made me hold the light, j

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

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no1 wrote:Ms. Name,
Your rats probably have too much fat for the students to be able to see much anatomy anyway.



No, I've been good. These guys get almost no people food.
But if it is time for their morning oatmeal, they just stare at me until I make it!
What if I don't want oatmeal that day?

No yogies. Poor guys. Rats who have had yogies live for them!

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
dontwantaname wrote:I'm still mad that they made us kill the frog in a non major, community college class.
Plus the fact that the frog wasn''t as dead as they wanted it.

Don't worry, I'm not a PETA fanatic.
Whenever I get a chance to watch at the doctors office, I do. I have watched a fatty cyst removed from both my mom and my son's face. I almost told one of the Dr's to move, he was blocking my view.
One of the doctors actually made me hold the light, j


Ms. Name,

Your mom and your son were sharing a cyst?!? Man, that is one big cyst!

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1
dontwantaname wrote:No, I've been good. These guys get almost no people food.
But if it is time for their morning oatmeal, they just stare at me until I make it!
What if I don't want oatmeal that day?

No yogies. Poor guys. Rats who have had yogies live for them!



Ms. Name,

Why can't they have yogies?

dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

Volunteer Moderator

no1 wrote:Ms. Name,

Why can't they have yogies?



Because they are rat crack.
Sugar and fat.
I've been trying to keep the people food to fruit and veggies and whole grains.
Yogies are just rat candy.
Son's friend was eating them one night, he said, hey, these things are good, what are they?
Hamster treats.
That stopped him!

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

dontwantaname


quality posts: 13 Private Messages dontwantaname

Volunteer Moderator

no1 wrote:Ms. Name,

Your mom and your son were sharing a cyst?!? Man, that is one big cyst!



//smack
Got to watch the plastic surgeon do the stiches too. A billion tiny stitches in a little cut.
Not mom, she is 86, they don't even mention plastic surgeon when you are that old.

WE LURV YOU TOO! Dork!!!
No greater love is lost than that not shared.

no1


quality posts: 7 Private Messages no1

C U l8r.