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EddieAngel333


quality posts: 0 Private Messages EddieAngel333
Kooper113 wrote:Thank you for your informative post which explained how I am wrong.

I'm not. You can use these in a 16x slot without issue.



ok here it is

a PCI slot and a PCIe slot are two different monsters
look at the photos on the main page !

you can't interchange them

they wont fit ! go look at the edge of the cards where they plug into

one is real tiny the PCIe

the other really long, the PCI

the slots only match what they are made for

m3talcore


quality posts: 6 Private Messages m3talcore

So we have one without Clear-QAM support and the other without hardware encoding. Shame, I've been looking for a decent (cheap) tuner for a while now. I think I'll just save up for something a little more versatile.

Kooper113


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Kooper113
EddieAngel333 wrote:the slots only match what they are made for



That is not what I meant. I meant that the PCI-E tuner card will work fine in a larger PCI-E slot without issue. It seems to be an x1 PCI-E card, I just wanted to clarify for users that the x1 card will work fine in a x4 or x16 slot.

For the PCI card yes that will only work in a PCI slot since they are two different BUS types.

pz@woot


quality posts: 7 Private Messages pz@woot
sparkerjc wrote:YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!! Thanks WOOT! I have been wanting this for a couple weeks to finish up our transition to a Windows 7 Media Center. This card has had very favorable reviews and has been at the top of my list, and you can't even get the knockoff brand (VisonTek,Diamond) at this price.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=ATI+TV+Wonder+650+PCI+TV+Tuner+Card&cid=3671464456949247289&sa=title#p

You can see it is about $66-100 from some shady looking retailers, this is a great deal if you have ever thought about trying out TV on/through a PC.

Get the PCIE if you are happy with your integrated graphics card or have multiple slots, or do what I did and get the PCI version and a decent video card for the PCIE slot.

Hopefully tomorrow Woot! has a Media Center remote to go with this...



Notice that someone posted above Windows 7 drivers are not available yet, maybe in 2010 first quarter.


Signature oh signature, cannot think
of something clever...

arsaaved


quality posts: 0 Private Messages arsaaved

HELP: I have a Lenovo IdeaCentre Q700 57106434 without any type of TV tuner. (http://gizmodo.com/5336612/lenovo-ideacentre-q700-wants-to-be-your-lounge-rooms-black-box) Would either of these TV tuners work? To me it looks like neither of them will work. Suggestions? Thanks.

THE PR0F3550R

jcyochum


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jcyochum
EddieAngel333 wrote:ok here it is

a PCI slot and a PCIe slot are two different monsters
look at the photos on the main page !

you can't interchange them

they wont fit ! go look at the edge of the cards where they plug into

one is real tiny the PCIe

the other really long, the PCI

the slots only match what they are made for



I think he was referring to the PCIE x1 card working in a PCIE x16 slot. In which case the PCIE x1 will work in the bigger PCIE x16 slot. A PCI card WILL NOT work in a PCIE SLOT PERIOD!

EddieAngel333


quality posts: 0 Private Messages EddieAngel333
Kooper113 wrote:That is not what I meant. I meant that the PCI-E tuner card will work fine in a larger PCI-E slot without issue. It seems to be an x1 PCI-E card, I just wanted to clarify for users that the x1 card will work fine in a x4 or x16 slot.

For the PCI card yes that will only work in a PCI slot since they are two different BUS types.



not what you wrote

you need to be more clear !

BTW why would you want to waist a X16 slot

they are made for video cards

if it has a X16 slot on the board it will always have at least 1 X1 slot !

you are just confusing people with that info

Kooper113


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Kooper113
jcyochum wrote:A PCI card WILL NOT work in a PCIE SLOT PERIOD!



Actually that may be untrue, I believe there are adapters which can convert the BUS signal, however there really wouldn't be much point, if you have PCI-e you're better off getting that card anyway.

EddieAngel333 wrote:not what you wrote

you need to be more clear !

BTW why would you want to waist a X16 slot

they are made for video cards

if it has a X16 slot on the board it will always have at least 1 X1 slot !

you are just confusing people with that info



Sorry for the lack of clarity. And why would you use a x16 slot? For me it's because my motherboard happens to have 3 x16 slots and no x4 or x1 slots. It is relevant information that may help an unknowing user. <3

roelbj


quality posts: 0 Private Messages roelbj

Regarding Windows 7 support, beware. There are lots of threads on the Internet talking about people having trouble with this card.

In this thread specifically, someone quotes AMD as saying:

"Currently there are no announced plans for driver support from AMD for the Theatre 650 or lower TV Wonder products in Windows 7."

http://www.sevenforums.com/drivers/10562-any-1-got-ati-tv-wonder-650-pci-work.html

EddieAngel333


quality posts: 0 Private Messages EddieAngel333
arsaaved wrote:HELP: I have a Lenovo IdeaCentre Q700 57106434 without any type of TV tuner. (http://gizmodo.com/5336612/lenovo-ideacentre-q700-wants-to-be-your-lounge-rooms-black-box) Would either of these TV tuners work? To me it looks like neither of them will work. Suggestions? Thanks.




first off
you need a video card for this card to work !

onboard video chip sets won't cut it !

do you have a video card ?

pz@woot


quality posts: 7 Private Messages pz@woot
digitoast wrote:FYI, folks:

The 650PCI does NOT have clearQAM support! You must buy the 650PCI-express if you want clearQAM.

The lack of clearQAM on the PCI is well documented on many reputable sites. Ex: the first google hit for "ati tv wonder 650 qam" returns http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=950104

And if you look at ATI's own product description:
http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonder650/index.html.
You'll notice: "ClearQAM cable TV^2" referencing the fine print:
2: ClearQAM digital TV... ...Supported on ATI TV Wonder 650 Combo PCI Express

Edit, 1048pm-PST: (disclaimer). I own both the 650PCIe and 650PCI. My 650PCI will not pull clearQAM signals. Seems that some people are reporting success, but my own experience says otherwise.



I'm still confused, a later post in that forum (2008, most were 2003!) says QAM is supported with a MS TV pack. Is this model that old?

however the product page does explicitly say ClearQAM only on PCIe.

Also general question - how would I know which of my cable HD channels might be ClearQAM? I think I have to have a box to get any of the digital tier


Signature oh signature, cannot think
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bigexxon


quality posts: 9 Private Messages bigexxon

First off, WOOT needs to clarify whether the PCIE is TVW650PCIE or TVW600PCIE. The picture is labeled one way and the "kind" is labeled another. Both cards are very different and the reviews are very different. The 600 sports a 'hybrid' tuner that 'supposedly' gets both types of signals on the same coax input. The 650 has 2 coax inputs (similar to the picture of the TVW650PCI but with PCIe.) Google ATI's site to see the physical differences.

If you have Windows 7 with Media Center then setting the cards up will be super super easy** compared to Vista or XP. I have a card similar to the TVW650PCIE and Windows 7 automatically installed it, and Media Center automatically detected the signal (all I had to do was input my zip code, Win7 scanned/found/labeled channels automatically, way easier than Vista Ultimate.) All I had to do was use a splitter to have inputs going into either coax plugs.

If you want to watch and record a show at the same time on the same frequency/input (i.e. record one HD channel and watch another) then go ahead and get 2 cards. Each input can have a single channel assigned to it at a time, so if you only have 1 card and are recording an HD channel, you can't view any other HD channels without cancelling that recording. You can, however, watch/record 1 HD channel while watching/recording 1 ATSC/Clear-QAM channel because either card has both inputs. I can't say whether the picture TVW600PCIE could handle recording 1 HD channel while watching an ATSC channel at the same time with its 'hybrid tuner' but in my personal experience with similar cards toting the 'hybrid card' label the answer is usually NO.

**if ATI hasn't released the Win7 drivers for this card yet, then the Vista drivers should work BUT don't be surprised if you get issues with Windows 7 driver signature enforcement and get the "we found a driver but won't use it because Windows doesn't like its signature." A way around this is to hit F8 at boot time and get to the screen where you'd normally select 'safe mode' but instead select 'disable driver signature enforcement.'

EddieAngel333


quality posts: 0 Private Messages EddieAngel333
pz@woot wrote:I'm still confused, a later post (2008, most were 2003!) says QAM is supported with a MS TV pack. Is this model that old?

Also general question - how would I know which of my cable HD channels might be ClearQAM? I think I have to have a box to get any of the digital tier



depends on your cable company

m3talcore


quality posts: 6 Private Messages m3talcore
AutobahnSHO wrote:Please for the love of the Internets, tell me WHY anyone is talking about gaming in this discussion?



Some of us want to record/play console games? I don't think I've seen anyone claiming these are output devices but if they have it's best just to ignore them anyway.

--------------------

Regarding the PCI/PCIe discussion, have a look at this this image on wikipedia. The slots starting at the top are PCEe x4, x16, x1 and x16, followed by a regular PCI slot at the bottom. The PCEe card will work in any of the four PCIe slots while the PCI card is limited to the PCI slot. (of which there is only one variety)

jcyochum


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jcyochum
roelbj wrote:Regarding Windows 7 support, beware. There are lots of threads on the Internet talking about people having trouble with this card.

In this thread specifically, someone quotes AMD as saying:

"Currently there are no announced plans for driver support from AMD for the Theatre 650 or lower TV Wonder products in Windows 7."

http://www.sevenforums.com/drivers/10562-any-1-got-ati-tv-wonder-650-pci-work.html



http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/GPU39_ATITVWonderDrivers.aspx


Last Updated
11/20/2009
Article Number
GPU-39

Article Description:
This article provides information about ATI TV Wonder™ driver availability for Windows 7®.

Advisory:
Drivers for the ATI TV Wonder™ HD 600/650 series and All in Wonder™ HD series are expected to be available in the first quarter of 2010.

The driver availability date is subject to change without notice at the discretion of AMD and/or the affiliated AMD Certified or OEM Partners.

Due to the incompatibility between Microsoft Windows 7® and ATI’s legacy TV Tuner products (ATI Theater 550 Pro chipsets and older), driver support will not be available.

This article applies to the following configuration(s):

* Hardware
o ATI TV Wonder™ Series
o ATI All in Wonder™ HD Series
* Operating System
o Windows 7® 32bit
o Windows 7® 64bit

flatlandr


quality posts: 8 Private Messages flatlandr
pz@woot wrote:I'm still confused, a later post (2008, most were 2003!) says QAM is supported with a MS TV pack. Is this model that old?

Also general question - how would I know which of my cable HD channels might be ClearQAM? I think I have to have a box to get any of the digital tier



If you have Digital tier you will have QAM.. I do and I have comcast and you will only get the local stations (FCC says it is a must) and I get a couple of others ( I only get the 4 local in HD off the QAM). So don't expect to get all the HD channels. Comcast and other providers have locked it up and want you to buy digital HD package. Personally I feel like they are in violation of the FCC by doing that not having all in HD. But hey they have become the FCC. Bottom Line is ATI makes a quality product and you will be happy with the quality for a computer based TV. Recording the show with Windows Media Center makes this your DVR like your own TiVO.

mr

Skeetzy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Skeetzy

I'm 100% unsure of what one to order, even thought I jumped the gun and ordered a PCIe because I thought this was still a Woot! Off(Failed to see no flashing lights lol).

My setup:
2.4 GHz Core2Duo Processor
4 Gigs of Ram
8800GT

I just want something to watch TV on my computer screen. We only get basic cable(besides downstairs which has more channels, but no HD), and that's all I'd really want to watch.

I have 2 open PCIe slots, and 3 open PCI slots.

Which one should I get? Do I stick with the PCIe, or order a PCI?

rsalas187


quality posts: 1 Private Messages rsalas187

This will not work on laptops, it will not tune in Directv or dish, , it will let you feed video into it to convert vhs, Please look at your pc to see what kind you need, The standard pci is bigger than the PCi express, I have one of these card already and love it. I even returned my DVR to Time warner. This card works great with vista or windows 7 ultimate 32 or 64bit .

erockem


quality posts: 1 Private Messages erockem

No half height adapters for the pci-e in the box is my guess.

medezark


quality posts: 0 Private Messages medezark
btvsphobicphobe wrote:I've only got a laptop - can an enclosure be found for it and will it work with a toshiba satellite?



If you have an expresscard slot on your laptop, the company in the link below has both expresscard to PCI and expresscard to PCI-E adapters.

http://www.magma.com/products/pciexpress/expressbox1/index.html

drei22


quality posts: 3 Private Messages drei22

I use the PCi version in my computer with free ORB software (www.orb.com) and it is so money. I watch TV and have DVR functionality over the internet without any extra hardware like a Slingbox or Hava. Also it works in Windows 7 with no issues.

medezark


quality posts: 0 Private Messages medezark
Stevel024 wrote:This will only work for a desktop.



Not necessarily true, you can purchase expansion chasis that convert a cardbus slot or expresscard slot to PCI/PCI-E/PCI-X.

As an expresscard slot is basically a combo USB/PCI-E 1X slot, there shouldn't be much difficulty if using either of these cards in such a chasis.

This would, of course, be much more expensive than simply purchasing a USB or Expresscard tuner to begin with.

medezark


quality posts: 0 Private Messages medezark
Sairou wrote:I'm interested in hooking up consoles to my pc and using my monitor to play them. Which card should I choose?



Ugh. Most TV Tuners and their accompanying software have a caching and conversion delay which makes playing games a tiny bit difficult.

mintyfreshness


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mintyfreshness
jackstoner wrote:i want one but I dont know what to get or if its gonna work!

Time warner digital cable with no cable box...just straight cable to the tv



If the digital side will tune QAM, you have the perfect setup for the PCI version of this card. Since your signal is not encrypted, all you have to do is split your cable and run one input into the analog side and the other into the digital side. You will be able to tune and record the SD broadcasts on one tuner and the digital broadcasts on the other tuner. It will work almost like a dual tuner Tivo (except one side will be analog and the other digital)using Windows Media Center. I.E. You can record one program while watching another, record two programs simultaneously and watch a recorded show, time shift two programs. If your basic system is decent, you can get a lot of use out of the card for $25.

justafreak


quality posts: 11 Private Messages justafreak
pz@woot wrote:I'm still confused, a later post in that forum (2008, most were 2003!) says QAM is supported with a MS TV pack. Is this model that old?

however the product page does explicitly say ClearQAM only on PCIe.

Also general question - how would I know which of my cable HD channels might be ClearQAM? I think I have to have a box to get any of the digital tier



By Law though not really advertised all your local network affiliates that are offered in HD by the cable company are delivered to you for free unscrambled. So if for example your Cable Company offers NBC,CBS,ABC and FOX in then any cable subscription you have will receive those QAM. Your local cable company may offer more than that, but those are the only required channels.

Also if it has not already been mentioned. Windows 7 supports upto 4 tuners (of like kinds) this means that it supports upto 4 QAM and 4 analog etc....I run a pair of Hauppauge 2250s in my media center but I guess if your looking for QAM on the cheap this might be a good option for you.

.rev - 325.unique.woots / 567.total.items - woot is where the crap is.

Skeetzy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Skeetzy
Skeetzy wrote:I'm 100% unsure of what one to order, even thought I jumped the gun and ordered a PCIe because I thought this was still a Woot! Off(Failed to see no flashing lights lol).

My setup:
2.4 GHz Core2Duo Processor
4 Gigs of Ram
8800GT

I just want something to watch TV on my computer screen. We only get basic cable(besides downstairs which has more channels, but no HD), and that's all I'd really want to watch.

I have 2 open PCIe slots, and 3 open PCI slots.

Which one should I get? Do I stick with the PCIe, or order a PCI?



Doing more research has led me nowhere... any opinions?

justafreak


quality posts: 11 Private Messages justafreak
mintyfreshness wrote:.......(except one side will be analog and the other digital)using Windows Media Center. I.E. You can record one program while watching another, record two programs simultaneously and watch a recorded show......



This is incorrect. Cards that support both Analog and Digital connections like this one still only support one medium per tuner at any given time. So while its true the device can record both SD and HD it is only able to receive those signals singularly. That is the reason you either buy 2 or find a dual tuner...or wait till the early part of next year and buy one of the new full-on Quad-tuner Cable-cards which will support standard digital cable.

.rev - 325.unique.woots / 567.total.items - woot is where the crap is.

AVspec


quality posts: 6 Private Messages AVspec

Can the 650PCI model do both OTA HD and Cable QAM HD at the same time? Reading these posts it looks like nobody really knows the truth?
.
.
.

And the truth shall set you free!!!

justafreak


quality posts: 11 Private Messages justafreak
Skeetzy wrote:Doing more research has led me nowhere... any opinions?



You'll get an HD feed from your cable operator anyway and since you have a lot of open slots its up to you....you should get about the same response form both, but if you think you might keep the card longer than the PC I'd get the PCIe so you can be sure you'll have the option to move the card over.

.rev - 325.unique.woots / 567.total.items - woot is where the crap is.

dctrvenkman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dctrvenkman
dog13000 wrote:I am using this card as we speak to watch MythBusters on Discovery on my windows 7 machine.

There is a work around to make it work with 7 until the official drivers come out. The only thing I'm noticing is that over the air digital doesn't seem to be working for me, but that could be because of my location. Other wise, it works pretty smooth.



Since I havn't seen any mention of this and it might be helpful in answering your HD question.

I'd like to point out that neither of these cards have 2 discrete tuners. This means that the card shows up to the OS as 1 tuner card either SD or HD depending on how you set it up. There is a hack to get media center to essentially add the card twice one as SD and one as HD (I havn't tried this yet).

I am in the same boat, I've been using the 650PCI is SD and it works great but I am disappointed in the SD and HD not working out of the box together. On another note the drivers (at least in the past) have been atrocious, a blue screen (IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL) from trying to uninstall the driver, come on ATI (windows driver verifier? try maybe?). But I digress.

So if you want SD and HD simultaneously either find the fix or look into the 650PCIe which most vendors offer in a dual tuner design.

pz@woot


quality posts: 7 Private Messages pz@woot
flatlandr wrote:If you have Digital tier you will have QAM.. I do and I have comcast and you will only get the local stations (FCC says it is a must) and I get a couple of others ( I only get the 4 local in HD off the QAM). So don't expect to get all the HD channels. Comcast and other providers have locked it up and want you to buy digital HD package. Personally I feel like they are in violation of the FCC by doing that not having all in HD. But hey they have become the FCC. Bottom Line is ATI makes a quality product and you will be happy with the quality for a computer based TV. Recording the show with Windows Media Center makes this your DVR like your own TiVO.



Okay. I already have a Hauppage PVR card that accepts my cable channels up to 99, but not digital tier or HD. I'm trying to figure out the benefits of the PCI version here. (btw, I take it some PCs have multiple PCIe slots non 1x? I have one and my video card in it.)
This has an HD tuner, which theoretically would let me get my local HD even without ClearQAM, though I'm sure reception could be challenging. I guess the ClearQAM would have let me get digital tier, channels 101 to 176? But then not most of my HD tier that starts at 202, only about 5 of those are local.

Probably for $20 I should just try it but I get less pleasure messing around with the PC these days, less time so just want it to work!


Signature oh signature, cannot think
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grcore


quality posts: 0 Private Messages grcore
dabretty wrote:The HDTV Wonder (PCI) from ATI. Maybe it's a newer chipset. But - based on my experiences - I shudder seeing this for sale here. It was that bad.



Yes, the HDTV wonder was a complete train wreck. The software was incredibly bad, the drivers were completely unstable, and the hardware suckkdd!

RUN AWAY!!!

levi4884


quality posts: 0 Private Messages levi4884

The 650 looks like it has two jacks for cable. Is one an "In" and one an "Out" so i can hook the cable to the card and then run it to my tv? Basically, what I'm asking is if I can take my single cable line from the outside and have it go to both the card and my tv?

nivler


quality posts: 0 Private Messages nivler

I have Cablevision. Can I plug the cablevision cable into this? There must be limitations as my cable boxes require a special card. Thanks.

markmasse


quality posts: 0 Private Messages markmasse
streetwild wrote:Have USB and PCI, No Windows 7 drivers until the first quarter of 2010, but no guarantees.
Kinda not comforting....



Windows website says the 650 is compatibile

markmasse


quality posts: 0 Private Messages markmasse
FreeskierInVT wrote:iTunes won't even run on my computer running windows 7 ultimate 64 bit. Every time I run iTunes, the system has to go into XP compatibility which is a pain.



http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Details.aspx?type=Hardware&p=ATI%20TV%20Wonder%20650%20PCI%20TV%20Tuner%20Card&v=ATI&uid=100-715331&pf=1&pi=6&s=tv%20tuner&os=32-bit

mintyfreshness


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mintyfreshness

except one side will be analog and the other digital)using Windows Media Center. I.E. You can record one program while watching another, record two programs simultaneously and watch a recorded show......


justafreak wrote:This is incorrect. Cards that support both Analog and Digital connections like this one still only support one medium per tuner at any given time. So while its true the device can record both SD and HD it is only able to receive those signals singularly. That is the reason you either buy 2 or find a dual tuner...or wait till the early part of next year and buy one of the new full-on Quad-tuner Cable-cards which will support standard digital cable.



This is a dual tuner. One analog and one digital. The card will do exactly what I said it will do.

kumargk


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kumargk

Are these low profile ready? meaning do they fit in a small form factor PC like a HP Pavilion s3020n?? And someone please which one has the hardware encoder the 650PCI or the 600PCIe?? description says its the 650pci... is that right? on amazon they say it works with win vista media center software which is great!! but only gripe is im not sure if it wil fit into my slimline s3020n HTPC.

trentking0611


quality posts: 0 Private Messages trentking0611

Will this work on Windows 7? Assume it will because it works on Vista. I have a a Phillips now that 7 flat out will not read at all.

veedub91


quality posts: 0 Private Messages veedub91
mintyfreshness wrote:This is a dual tuner. One analog and one digital. The card will do exactly what I said it will do.



Well from what woot says its a dual tuner. But if you look at the specs for the 650PCI not the PCIe verison on ati or diamond it says its only a single tuner.