I have this one and it is actually pretty good. It compares to the one I used at physical therapy. My problem has been finding pads. If anyone knows a good place can you PM me or email me at mfsole(at)hotmail(dot)com?

Thanks

z32tt wrote:gentlemen, this is a GREAT product. i saw many doctors that could not treat my severe case of erectile dysfunction. after only using the TENS for 3 days, it was like i was 13 all over again. you have to wear it like a diaper essentially.

Wow, just wow. And I thought I was kinky.

xrobevansx wrote:1. Does this unit have the ability to use "regular" stim pads and leads?

2. Can you use the leads/PADS included with it WITHOUT the belt?

3. Does the belt have built-in pads?

1. I have a very similar Medisana model that I wooted a while back. I didn't like the pad placement, so I bought different leads and pads from Amazon, which have worked just fine. That said, this belt might actually work a lot better because there are more places to put the pads. It's really hard to get separate leads onto your own back.

2. You won't be able to use these pads without the belt. The included pads have a metal grid designed to diffuse the current that flows through the snap lead to the exposed back of the snap. As far as I can tell, they'll only work in a belt setup.

You can buy snap pads and keep the included leads. However, I found that other pad styles were so much cheaper that it was worth it to buy new leads.

3. As you can see in the detail pic, a set of pads is included, but not built in. They stick to the flat metal backs of the snaps. I don't think you'd want built-in pads; you need to be able to clean and replace them after they've been used a while.

DaMummy wrote:ill buy some pads if anyones got for sale, i bought a similar product off woot a while ago and pads wore off, but what kind of batteries does this thing use? the one i bought uses 9V batteries and rechargeables dont last for 15min. ao constantly buying new 9V batteries gets kind of expensive

I still am unsure as to what type of battery this product requires.

marji0 wrote:After reading through the comments I was compelled to post something. They do NOT work like "electric accupuncture" and are most definitely NOT "high tech snake oil". I'm a nurse - we use these quite often in the clinical setting & there is abundant scientific research to attest to their affectiveness. They don't work for everyone - but they do work for many. Here's a link to a decent layman's overview: transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulation

The link doesn't work ?

spysolyf wrote:The link doesn't work ?

But, I went to webmd and searched tens. It popped right up.

Does anyone know the waist size?

RandaLindsey wrote:I still am unsure as to what type of battery this product requires.

AAA's, I believe.

footman86 wrote:Does anyone know the waist size?

The band itself is adjustable, and comes with an extension to accomodate those of larger girth.

RandaLindsey wrote:I still am unsure as to what type of battery this product requires.

The batteries required are the 9 volt square batteries (one only). Batteries last a long time. I change mine after about 5 to 6 months. You get a hint that the battery needs to be changed when you have to turn up the dial to get the same effect you had last week.

Regarding the belt. I don't own this unit...mine is just a little different. Mine does not use the belt...a feature which I don't find very useful. Nevertheless, the only difference between this unit and most others are the belt and the leads. The electronic gismo is the same as all the others. So if you buy this unit, you can later buy new leads (less than $10) and a supply of pads. If you have to address pain in any other area of your body (other than the lower back) the belt can not be used.

acanarelli wrote:The batteries required are the 9 volt square batteries (one only). Batteries last a long time. I change mine after about 5 to 6 months. You get a hint that the battery needs to be changed when you have to turn up the dial to get the same effect you had last week.

Regarding the belt. I don't own this unit...mine is just a little different. Mine does not use the belt...a feature which I don't find very useful. Nevertheless, the only difference between this unit and most others are the belt and the leads. The electronic gismo is the same as all the others. So if you buy this unit, you can later buy new leads (less than $10) and a supply of pads. If you have to address pain in any other area of your body (other than the lower back) the belt can not be used.

Just had the girlfriend check - she has confirmed that this unit uses 3x AAA batteries.

nanajeanmarie wrote:I believe it is a transistor battery. The brand I have uses that.

What the heck is a "transistor battery"?
What is the battery? It is either a 9 volt, AA, AAA or "coin cell" 3V Lithium.

shindig966 wrote:Has anyone actually used one of these things? What kind of results have you had for moderate back pain?

The Mayo Clinic uses these I have a friend who went there

juanfungi wrote:The part of the skeptic religion I don't understand is the 'pee in the pool' mentality- 'I don't believe this so therefore you can't either'. If it works, who cares? If it's a placebo that takes away pain, sweet! no side effects and the pain's still gone!

That's the point. It DOESN'T work. It is not the specific treatment that's doing anything. It's the experience of undergoing treatment. You could use ANYTHING, for FREE, and get the same results, provided that you underwent an experience that seemed like treatment.

As for this whole "skeptical religion" thing, I think I know who's reading NaturalNews...

kexline wrote:1. I have a very similar Medisana model that I wooted a while back. I didn't like the pad placement, so I bought different leads and pads from Amazon, which have worked just fine. That said, this belt might actually work a lot better because there are more places to put the pads. It's really hard to get separate leads onto your own back.

2. You won't be able to use these pads without the belt. The included pads have a metal grid designed to diffuse the current that flows through the snap lead to the exposed back of the snap. As far as I can tell, they'll only work in a belt setup.

You can buy snap pads and keep the included leads. However, I found that other pad styles were so much cheaper that it was worth it to buy new leads.

3. As you can see in the detail pic, a set of pads is included, but not built in. They stick to the flat metal backs of the snaps. I don't think you'd want built-in pads; you need to be able to clean and replace them after they've been used a while.

THANKS!

First the kid doesn't want his mother in the room for a while, but later says he can be back from his time travels in an instant, so duration of use isn't a worry.

Plot hole?

Daniel Calvin Hendra wrote:Anyone want to buy some extra pads?

hey, you have a bunch of extra pads? how many and for how much?

Has anyone checked/does anyone know the level of electrical stimulation/intensity level of this particular device? Eg,for another device:

The LG-TEC Dual Combo has a strong and powerful 100mA intensity level - just as strong as in the medical clinics.

I've searched and searched and haven't been able to find any such specs....

Thanks from a severe sciatica sufferer (with 2 back surgeries under my belt thus far - at age 39)...

tewkewl wrote:Okay guys. Here's the REAL skinny.

This thing is a massager. It's not a freakin accupuncture on electricity gizmo.

It causes your muscles to contract and relax. Muscles can only be contracted so much until they are exhausted and cannot contract anymore. Every tried to work out hard and can't put out one more rep of weights because you're muscles are too tired?

This basically does that in a micro sense. Your muscles turn to jello and become soft and malliable. perfect for chiros or therapist to work on. It becomes easier to manipulate bones ligaments, joints, etc.

This is not snake oil, but it's also not some magic cure. It's a tool used as part of a treatment and as a massager.

THAT IS ALL.

I've been having this done for years, and i know what it does.

Ah, the voice of reason. Someone who actually understands. And probably did the high-school freshman biology experiment making the frog leg jerk with a battery.

p.s. I'm not sure that anonymity brings out the best in humankind.

FreePlayPSP wrote:That's the point. It DOESN'T work. It is not the specific treatment that's doing anything. It's the experience of undergoing treatment. You could use ANYTHING, for FREE, and get the same results, provided that you underwent an experience that seemed like treatment.

There have been many posts by people that have noted that they went through other medical treatments with no change in their condition, then tried acupuncture and it worked. If it was a placebo effect, why didn't the other treatments work? Each is undergoing an "experience that seemed like treatment" as you say, so what made the acupuncture give you the placebo effect and cause you to heal, if the others failed? At what point does your body accept that THIS experience is the valid experience?

Freeplay, it would probably help if you didn't sound like you have a major agenda and extreme bias. Considering how vehemently you defended pharmacists as not being heartless, it makes me wonder about your profession. You claim that people who believe acupuncture works are the ones with the closed minds, because you'll (so generously) admit that acupuncture has a placebo effect, but unless you're an spoon, you must know that isn't how you define an open mind. Refusing to change your position regardless of what is presented to you and finding excuses to disregard anything that doesn't fit in with your belief is the definition of being close minded. It would be like me saying that "Oh yes, chemotherapy does have an effect, but it's bogus because it's a placebo" and saying that makes me open minded because I said chemotherapy had an effect - never mind that I followed it up with a "but it's bogus."

I also couldn't help but wonder how placebos work on babies and animals (something you said earlier), if they don't have the ability to recognize they are undergoing a treatment.

I found it particularly amazing how often you felt it necessary to comment, especially in the first few pages, where you were incessantly posting, sometimes not even in response to other people. Considering how dogmatic you are, perhaps you are an MD who was driven out of business by acupuncturists and chiropracters? Either that or a troll.

Medical science has come a LONG way, and there are a lot of things that people thought were unexplainable that turned out to simply be unexplainable at that time. Seriously, just look at medicine a few decades ago. With more knowledge and methods of testing, we have made amazing strides in a very small period of time. Asian cultures have been using acupunture for centuries, and they also have a very solid belief in chi for healing and control of the body - just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work. They've proved it to their satisfaction, so leave it be. Eastern and Western philosophies are too different to compare.

And to the gentleman who thinks that saying "you have nothing to lose" is false - well, if you're in chronic pain and a treatment doesn't work so you're STILL in pain...well, you didn't lose anything, did you? Hope does not count, because if you do nothing, you still have no hope of changing your condition. Would you rather sit and do nothing, or try everything you can before admitting defeat?

Anyone have extra pads they want to be relieved of? PM me if so.

jpstrings wrote:I have moderate back pain and got one of these the last time there were offered. It does help with the pain. When my back would start to hurt and tighten up, i would use a heat pad for 15 minutes and then put on the TENS unit. It did help. Just a word of advise, the highest setting is a little shocking.

The pads last for a while, but they do tend to lose the stickyness after a while.

Good luck.

You can wash the pads by running your finger under the water and rubbing the pads. I have a smaller unit for my shoulder and that's the way they say to wash the pads.

shindig966 wrote:Has anyone actually used one of these things? What kind of results have you had for moderate back pain?

I have used this one and also used a smaller one for my shoulder. It is wonderful for pain. I told my doctor that I preferred it over the pills for pain any day. I have had shoulder replacement surgery and the tens unit is great for that pain.

I use therapeutic and made-for-play TENS units for sensual and erotic purposes on a regular basis. Can't find much information on these, but at worst I expect them to be as useful as the generic $40-60 units from sources like amazon and ebay.

kexline wrote:1. I have a very similar Medisana model that I wooted a while back. I didn't like the pad placement, so I bought different leads and pads from Amazon, which have worked just fine. That said, this belt might actually work a lot better because there are more places to put the pads. It's really hard to get separate leads onto your own back.

2. You won't be able to use these pads without the belt. The included pads have a metal grid designed to diffuse the current that flows through the snap lead to the exposed back of the snap. As far as I can tell, they'll only work in a belt setup.

You can buy snap pads and keep the included leads. However, I found that other pad styles were so much cheaper that it was worth it to buy new leads.

3. As you can see in the detail pic, a set of pads is included, but not built in. They stick to the flat metal backs of the snaps. I don't think you'd want built-in pads; you need to be able to clean and replace them after they've been used a while.

Finally...

An actual post with details about this particular model.

Thanks!

I've used a TENS unit that was perscribed by a chiropractor for years now, with great sucess. But I wonder how safe it is to use one of these. I suggest seeing a doctor first to make sure this is safe for you.

I'd like to try one. I had Lower lumbar bone fusion 8 years ago and have 4 titanium screws there. Some soreness lately. Would it be safe?
I need the comfort and don't think the screws are conductive.

I used to sell TENS units. It helped many of our customers. However, they don't work for everybody (1 in 10). I've sold TENS units to customers with chronic back pain and it helped them.

I've used one with pretty decent results. The thing to remember is change your electrodes at least once a week and remember that, over time, you'll have to raise the stimulation. Watch for redness around the electrode as you might have the setting too high. Also, if the area around the electrode begins to itch, you may be allergic to the gel.

Best of luck.

I am a physical therapist. TENS does nothing but "mask" the pain. TENS stimulates nerve endings which can release endorphins that alters the brains perception of pain. If large muscle groups are stimulated, the contraction of the muscles(such as in the back from certain settings on the unit) causes the large motor nerves to be stimulated. This has the effect of "drowning out" of the smaller sensory or pain nerves. This is what we call a counter-irritant effect. Google Melzack and Walls Gate theory of pain for more info. TENS will not "cure" anything!

tewkewl wrote:Okay guys. Here's the REAL skinny.

This thing is a massager. It's not a freakin accupuncture on electricity gizmo.

It causes your muscles to contract and relax. Muscles can only be contracted so much until they are exhausted and cannot contract anymore. Every tried to work out hard and can't put out one more rep of weights because you're muscles are too tired?

This basically does that in a micro sense. Your muscles turn to jello and become soft and malliable. perfect for chiros or therapist to work on. It becomes easier to manipulate bones ligaments, joints, etc.

This is not snake oil, but it's also not some magic cure. It's a tool used as part of a treatment and as a massager.

THAT IS ALL.

I've been having this done for years, and i know what it does.

I beg to differ with your evaluation. I have used a TENS unit for a number of years to help relieve pain in my right leg and left knee. The TENS is not a "massager" while it may be used as one by some. The purpose of the TENS in most cases is to mask the pain signals to the brain from the area(s) being treated. With proper placement of the pads the pain signal from the affected area can be disrupted. My pain specialist said that if your muscles are contracting or spasming when using the TENS then the setting is probably too high. These are observations from my personal use of a TENS unit (not the one with the belt though.)

FreePlayPSP wrote:Chiropractic, similarly is based on the idea that energy is flowing through your body, and by aligning your spine, you ease the flow of the energy and cause beneficial changes in various parts of the body.

It's complete and utter nonsense.

Wow, I'm glad I saw this post in time. I was going to take my car in tomorrow for a front-end alignment. They told me it's badly out of alignment, and can thus affect the wearing of the tires, the gas mileage, and many other things affecting the performance and longevity of my car. Glad to know it's not needed!!!!

(Do you see how insane your "opinion" against Chiropractic adjustments is???---the body gets out of alignment and needs periodic adjustment, just like a car does. I'm a classically-trained surgeon, and KNOW for a fact that chiropractic adjustments DO INDEED work when done correctly.)

tenshineko wrote:]If it was a placebo effect, why didn't the other treatments work?

The human mind is a complex and mysterious thing. Anyone who claims to understand it is a fool. The placebo effect is amazing, but it is still just a placebo effect. Generally it has a lot to do with whether or not someone BELEIVES their treatment will work. If a doctor says "this pill will help" but an acupuncturist says "this will fix your chi and cure you"....

Freeplay, it would probably help if you didn't sound like you have a major agenda and extreme bias. Considering how vehemently you defended pharmacists as not being heartless, it makes me wonder about your profession.

Attacking the person instead of their argument doesn't make you sound credible. Freeplay is arguing for his/her position, so if you disagree with the position, attack that.

Refusing to change your position regardless of what is presented to you and finding excuses to disregard anything that doesn't fit in with your belief is the definition of being close minded.

I think your confusing "open minded" and naive. Freeplay is being skeptical, not closed-minded. Acupuncture is supported by anecdotal evidence -- the plural of anecdote is NOT data. Sorry.

I also couldn't help but wonder how placebos work on babies and animals

Do they? I haven't seen any studies on baby-acupunture or doggy-acupuncture. How would you even test that it's working. The ethical grounds you're treading on are murky here.

Medical science has come a LONG way, and there are a lot of things that people thought were unexplainable that turned out to simply be unexplainable at that time...Asian cultures have been using acupunture for centuries, and they also have a very solid belief in chi for healing and control of the body - just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work.

So many logical fallacies, so little time. You're making an argument from antiquity combined with an argument from the unknown. Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean anything is possible. Just because something's been around for a while, doesn't make it right. Practitioners of Chinese medicine in China think Endangered Tiger Penis will cure erectile dysfunction. Still ready to take their word for it?

cottonmouth116 wrote:If you belive there is no "energy running through your body, maybe you should go back to biology class.

Sensory nerves are nerves that receive sensory stimuli, such as how something feels and if it is painful.

They are made up of nerve fibers, called sensory fibers (mechanoreceptor fibers sense body movement and pressure placed against the body, and nociceptor fibers sense tissue injury).

Sensory neurons are neurons that are activated by sensory input (vision, touch, hearing, etc.), and send projections into the central nervous system that convey sensory information to the brain or spinal cord. Unlike neurons of the central nervous system, whose inputs come from other neurons, sensory neurons are activated by physical modalities such as light, sound, temperature, chemical stimulation, etc.

In complex organisms, sensory neurons relay their information to the central nervous system or in less complex organisms, such as the hydra, directly to motor neurons and sensory neurons also transmit information (electrical impulses) to the brain, where it can be further processed and acted upon. For example, olfactory sensory neurons make synapses with neurons of the olfactory bulb, where the sense of olfaction (smell) is processed.

At the molecular level, sensory receptors located on the cell membrane of sensory neurons are responsible for the conversion of stimuli into electrical impulses. The type of receptor employed by a given sensory neuron determines the type of stimulus it will be sensitive to. For example, neurons containing mechanoreceptors are sensitive to tactile stimuli, while olfactory receptors make a cell sensitive to odors.

Absolutely correct! Glad to see that SOME people have actually taken the time to formally educate themselves about anatomy, physiology, neurology, etc. before commenting on this topic.

tenshineko wrote:There have been many posts by people that have noted that they went through other medical treatments with no change in their condition, then tried acupuncture and it worked. If it was a placebo effect, why didn't the other treatments work?

As I have repeatedly said, the fact that they improved after acupuncture does not mean the acupuncture CAUSED the improvement! "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc" ring a bell?

tenshineko wrote:Freeplay, it would probably help if you didn't sound like you have a major agenda and extreme bias. Considering how vehemently you defended pharmacists as not being heartless, it makes me wonder about your profession.

I'm an EDITOR. I write technical manuals. I just happen to CARE about science and good medicine. My agenda is promoting science and discouraging pseudoscience.

tenshineko wrote:You claim that people who believe acupuncture works are the ones with the closed minds

No, actually, I didn't claim anything of the sort. I said that if there is absolutely no evidence that could convince you that you're wrong, you have a closed mind. It just happened that the person who fit this description was a believer in acupuncture.

tenshineko wrote:Refusing to change your position regardless of what is presented to you and finding excuses to disregard anything that doesn't fit in with your belief is the definition of being close minded.

That is EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.

tenshineko wrote:It would be like me saying that "Oh yes, chemotherapy does have an effect, but it's bogus because it's a placebo" and saying that makes me open minded because I said chemotherapy had an effect - never mind that I followed it up with a "but it's bogus."

... No.

tenshineko wrote:I also couldn't help but wonder how placebos work on babies and animals (something you said earlier), if they don't have the ability to recognize they are undergoing a treatment.

Really? You think infants and animals can't figure out that they're undergoing a treatment? Give a crying baby food sometime and tell me that they don't recognize that it's fulfilling a need.

tenshineko wrote:I found it particularly amazing how often you felt it necessary to comment, especially in the first few pages, where you were incessantly posting, sometimes not even in response to other people. Considering how dogmatic you are, perhaps you are an MD who was driven out of business by acupuncturists and chiropracters? Either that or a troll.

Or someone who is trying to prevent people from wasting their money on nonsense.

tenshineko wrote:Medical science has come a LONG way, and there are a lot of things that people thought were unexplainable that turned out to simply be unexplainable at that time. Seriously, just look at medicine a few decades ago. With more knowledge and methods of testing, we have made amazing strides in a very small period of time.

No matter of "we don't know everything" is ever support for "treatment X works." Ever.

tenshineko wrote:Asian cultures have been using acupunture for centuries, and they also have a very solid belief in chi for healing and control of the body - just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or work.

Actually, no, that's not entirely true. Modern acupuncture is really less than a hundred years old. Chinese practitioners completely overhauled their practices in an attempt to make them more palatable to the world. What we see as acupuncture now is quite different from what it used to be.

tenshineko wrote:They've proved it to their satisfaction, so leave it be. Eastern and Western philosophies are too different to compare.

So if they've proved to their satisfaction that the sun goes around the Earth, does that mean that, in China, the sun actually goes around the Earth? Or are we dealing with a single reality that is consistent everywhere?

tenshineko wrote:And to the gentleman who thinks that saying "you have nothing to lose" is false - well, if you're in chronic pain and a treatment doesn't work so you're STILL in pain...well, you didn't lose anything, did you? Hope does not count, because if you do nothing, you still have no hope of changing your condition. Would you rather sit and do nothing, or try everything you can before admitting defeat?

I would try what has been shown to work under the best testing conditions. Anything else might wind up with me wasting thousands of dollars.

What's the harm? Plenty.

ReginaFilangee wrote:
(Do you see how insane your "opinion" against Chiropractic adjustments is???---the body gets out of alignment and needs periodic adjustment, just like a car does. I'm a classically-trained surgeon, and KNOW for a fact that chiropractic adjustments DO INDEED work when done correctly.)

Except that chiropractic adjustment has nothing to do with fixing MECHANICAL problems. Like I said in the post you quoted (did you bother reading it?) it's about the magical idea that energy flowing through your nerves - not nerve signals, but something different entirely and undetectable - connects your spine to all of your organs, and if your spine goes out of alignment, your spleen might not work quite so well. Seriously, go to a chiropractor and read their literature sometime. They talk about spinal adjustments being able to improve organ function and 'ease the vital flow' - things like that. It has nothing to do with the mechanic analogy you presented. It's no different from a person saying that they can adjust your aura by waving crystals over your body, and thus effect a change in your metabolic processes.

If any chiropractor makes that claim, it's BUNK. If they talk about fixing mechanical problems, even that is demonstrably limited to easing lower back pain.

ReginaFilangee wrote:Absolutely correct! Glad to see that SOME people have actually taken the time to formally educate themselves about anatomy, physiology, neurology, etc. before commenting on this topic.

Give me a break. Nerve signals and qi have nothing to do with one another. He wasn't even talking about the same thing I was. One is the body's electrochemical wiring, which we know exists, and one is a spiritual life force, which is utterly undetectable and essentially proven not to exist.

FreePlayPSP wrote:This is, of course, a bunch of high-tech snake oil. But hey, it's your money.

Do your research. TENS is a recognized mainstream modality for pain relief, and not categorized as alternative or complimentary medicine. We use it all the time in rehab medicine and pain control when other modalities, i.e. medication, have failed or are impractical. Despite the Woot description of acupuncture meridians, TENS has nothing to do with qi or acupuncture. It works by blocking the nerve pathways by which pain travels with a competing electrical stimulus.

Seriously, do your research before posting something stupid.

I've happily used a TENS unit made by Empi for well over a year nowand love it. If you have health insurance, I'd recommend getting it prescribed by your doctor or chiropractor. They are usually fully covered and they'll mail new pads to you every month. Empi's current unit has two separate channels that individually adjustable and retails for around $900, but has tons of programs built in.

Again, if you have insurance and chronic back pain, that's certainly the best route to take.

sdc100 wrote:Seriously, do your research before posting something stupid.

Seriously, read what I actually wrote before posting something stupid. In this thread I have REPEATEDLY said that TENS is legit, and that the problem I have is that they're claiming that it works based on acupuncture. We're not even disagreeing here. I know that a legitimate TENS device doesn't have anything to do with acupuncture. I also understand that this is The Sharper Image and they have a tendency to make stuff up about their devices based on what they think people want to read.

I have been using TENS devices for over 15 years. I bought this one during a wootoff and really think it's sucky. The sticky pads don't stay on the belt well at all.

nvaine wrote:I'm not sure why you're so fired up about this. I also don't see a promise in Woot's description about "manipulating the flow of chi".

I do see this:

TENS treatment can block pain signals by interrupting the transmission of impulses though the skin to the painful parts by means of electric impulses

That's exactly what I get out of mine: mild electrical impulses that take the edge off some pretty bad pain. It's not a cure and Woot isn't promising that.

I've used these things in physical therapy, so I knew exactly what I was getting when I ordered mine. Ideally, it would be great if everyone who wants one could work with a doctor or physical therapist to understand correct placement and to learn what to expect.

Did you see the part about the killer robots? They don't give a flying gristle about chi or flow or any of those silly things. Buy it for the robots... just do it!