Playtek wrote:i own one of these and the biggest draw back of them is the fail zoom, it's a worthless 2x zoom, hardly noticeable, it takes great short to medium range videos but if your son/daughter are on the other side of the field it isn't as great.

I tried to record my son on stage at a school play with this and can hardly see him. The zoom is worthless.

I found it to be a big drawback not to have the option of swapping out an SD card in order to continue recording.

This price seems steep, especially since my IPhone 4 can do HD video, and editing on the go. Surely the business of these little video cameras is dead, especially now Droid and Iphone offer the same features built in. I expect to see a ton of these cheap video cameras on the market, over the next year or so.

How autonomous are woot from Amazon now? Hopefully the prices will stay low and the quality of swag will remain high. I just sold my three year old Zune (woot $84.99 2007) for $112,50 on ebay today. That is why we have grown to love woot.

How can you enjoy the HD on your TV?

Does it come with a composite cable?

EDIT: Component cable. I only saw composite in the pic.

spetsnaz22 wrote:How can you enjoy the HD on your TV?

Does it come with a composite cable?

It does come with the cable, but you won't get HD over composite.

Note the wording: "Produces incredible HD video you’ll be able to enjoy on your HDTV (TV cable included)"

also "TV-Out: Composite Video (5 ft. composite cable included)"

Of course, you can save the vids and watch in HD by other means, such as a media player.

It says on the front page that the model # is FVF460. Is this an overseas model that has been refurbished and is the the same as model # M2120M being sold here in the states??

I am a very biased Kodak Zi8 owner. As a matter of fact I own 2 of them.

When you compare the FLIP to the Zi8 you need to take into account some positives when compared to the Flip.

The Zi8 has a mic input, can do 60 fps at 720 and 30 fps @ 1080p.

Yes they are 2 different cameras in two different price ranges but since you are doing a refurb, for about $20 more you can get a camera that does so much more.

But...

The Zi8 does record in .mov which I do not care for.

Anyways, can you tell I like the Zi8 more?


I did do my research though.


My point? Flip for it.

Keep in mind this is not the "end-all & be-all" of video cameras. If you've got a special occasion, this is not your device. BUT if you're wanting something that's better than your camera phone and you can record on the fly, this is what you want.

user868name wrote:It says on the front page that the model # is FVF460. Is this an overseas model that has been refurbished and is the the same as model # M2120M being sold here in the states??

As near as I can tell, it's something like that. There is even a website whose domain name IS the M model number (link here), but when I Google the F model number, I find only references to Woot and overseas sites.

I don't have this but I did buy the standard Flip Mino from Woot last year. Despite VERY light use (used < 20 times), the thing died last month for no apparent reason. The LED still lights when plugged into the USB port, but I can't access the files but the battery no longer charges.

My general impression of the Flips is that they're okay. The "flip" USB connector is a joke. It's fragile and you'd need clearance near the USB port. If the USB arm breaks, you're screwed. A nice old fashion USB port and cord are more practical; replacement cords are <$1 on eBsy. A much better idea than the Flip arm is used by Creative. It has a stretchy USB cord stored inside the camera.

Again, I don't have the MinoHD, but the regular Mino was too simple for my taste. There were no features at all. For example, during recording, you can't even pause. That results in many many small video clips. And playback is similarly inflexible, i.e. you can't vary the playback speed. The Kodak HD models offer much more flexibility, with multiple playback speeds and they can be found for about $49. After owning the Kodak i6 (HD, up to 60fps $69 from Woot) and Flip Mino (standard def) rsimultaneously, I'd have to say the I much preferred the Kodak although the Mino was smaller and more attractive.

I don't know what new features they placed in the MinoHD besides upping the resolution, but the Woot description is disappointing. Yoiu still have the fragile Flip arm that I hate so much, and it still doesn't have expandable memory. That means having to plug in the Flip every time you need to clear the memory. With the Kodak, I merely had to change SD cards. And I could easily give videos to friends by giving them the SD card. Worse, it means having to take your laptop on vacation.

Also there ia no still photo mode, which comes in VERY handy. I've used my Kodak to capture documents in a pinch, and then immediately emailed the document to colleagues. Not perfect, but it worked. And I can easily plug the cards into a printer (at home or the local drug store) to print photos on the fly. No such luck with the Flip. You can only create stills by performing screen captures of the videos on your computer. Very cumbersome and the quality is poor.

People considering this look at the Kodaks and compare. I believe the Kodak Zx1 is currently on sale for $47 on eCost. It uses SDHC cards, has a still mode, multiple video modes (VGA, 720p at 30fps, 720p at 60fps), multiple playback modes, HDMI output and the ability to use standard or rechargeable AA batteries (which makes it bulkier but great for emergencies. No need to keep it charged).

http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=52770218&source=EWB072910EML&cm_mmc=Exact%20Target-_-Hotsheet-_-Clearance%20Countdown-_-Kodak%20Zx1%20Pocket%20Video%20Camera%20-%20Red%20-%20ZX1R

If you MUST get a Flip camcorder, I'd support this one.

Just a little information on the Flip, in case some of ya'll were wondering.

Pros:
This is the simplest camcorder in the WORLD. Good for children, the simple-minded, or those just seeking a little convenience in their lives.
It's an all-in one package. You charge with that little USB flip out and you UPLOAD with that little USB flip out. There is no need to buy memory - it already has about one hours of High Definition recording in it and/or around two hours of Standard Definition recording, you can change the resolution of the video if you want. Software is included INSIDE the Flip itself.
These Minos are EXTREMELY reliable. They're solid and super small. They make iPhones look large, so the portability factor is a plus.

Cons:
Compared to other camcorders around this general price range the resolution on the video is sub-par at 720p instead of FULL HD (1080p).
It does not have a camera feature like many handheld camcorders these days do.
The memory you buy it with is it's permanent memory. It cannot be switched out or taken out. The only way to upload your videos is through the flip out USB.
THERE IS LITTLE TO NO ZOOM. Just ... like ... FYI. If what you're going to be recording is more than ten-fifteen feet away, consider something else.
As such, I would only recommend this Flip if you purely want a small camcorder for short clips here and there. If you plan on doing productions like internet blogs or if you are just looking for a camcorder with high-quality video, you can do better for twenty to thirty dollars more. Splurge, I mean c'mon.


All that said - this price is AWESOME for this camcorder. Great gift because it's such a dazzling little thing.

draigun wrote:I would think it would still be useful if you were on a trip somewhere and couldn't bring a notebook or PC to dump what you've recorded. Most casual users (those who are likely going to use the flip) usually have no need to record for more than 2 hours nonstop.

The problem is people tend to leave it recording in anticipation of something good. In other words, there is a lot of junk footage which takes up space and it does fill up fast. The lack of an SD slot is a significant problem. It also means that you need to bring your laptop with you on vacation.

I'm contemplating one of these. We just gave away a Flip cam at Tilteed. I've been thinking that I need to have one to goof around with.

manncarol wrote:I found it to be a big drawback not to have the option of swapping out an SD card in order to continue recording.

Check out the Kodak Zx1. Similar size and price, but it uses SD cards. Also, the Zx1 uses two AA cells. So with the Zx1, you can carry a few extra SD cards and a few extra AA cells, and shoot "forever." Whereas with the Flip you're limited by internal memory and battery size.

IMHO the Flip is a very bad choice, the Zx1 is much better for roughly the same price. BTW, I got my Zx1 on Woot. ;)

MooseOfReason wrote:Here's a comparison video on Vimeo that compares the video quality of the Mino HD with the Kodak Zi6.


Feel free to watch more footage. I made my decision about six months ago and got a Zi6.

You can save about $25 and buy a refurbished Zi6 from Amazon.

I agree. I had the Flip Mino (not HD) and the Kodak Zi6, and found myself using the Zi6 much much more because of its flexibility and ability to use SD cards. And believe it or not, the macro lens has come in very handy for capturing a dermatological condition. I also love the ability to capture at 60fps for incredible smoothness and slo-mo videos. All the Kodaks have still photo capture while the Minos do not.

I wrote a much longer review comparing the two before so I won't repeat it here. But the fact that the Kodak is cheaper is another great selling point. In fact, you can get the Kodak Zx1 for only $47.99 this week on ecost. It has HDMI output.

http://www.ecost.com/detail.aspx?edp=52770218&source=EWB072910EML&cm_mmc=Exact%20Target-_-Hotsheet-_-Clearance%20Countdown-_-Kodak%20Zx1%20Pocket%20Video%20Camera%20-%20Red%20-%20ZX1R

ophiaguin wrote:It does not have a camera feature like many handheld camcorders these days do.

That's not true. Look at the specs on the website

Snap still photos from video

So, it does take pictures, as does the Kodak Zi6 (which I prefer).

However, I'll repeat my suggestion that I made in an earlier post. Consider the Zi6. You can save some money over the Flip by buying a refurbished Zi6 on Amazon.

yodagump wrote:i'm concerned about the 2x zoom, will this be enough to get my kids at their baseball and soccer games with sufficient quality?

thanks?

No. Not only is the magnification inadequate, but digital zooming diminishes the quality. Digital zooming is basically like taking a photo and cropping out the sides, then magnifying the center of the photo to be the size of the original photo. My Kodak zi6 has 4x digital zooming and even that is inadequate.

Also, zooming without any image stabilization is not a great idea for sports because any movement (i.e. camera shake) is magnified, resulting in blurry images. The cheaper HD cameras don't have image stabilization.

so im new to woot...
but just to make sure...all their items like this come with the charger and everything right?

its not JUST the camera? lol =]

MooseOfReason wrote:So, it does take pictures, as does the Kodak Zi6 (which I prefer).

However, I'll repeat my suggestion that I made in an earlier post. Consider the Zi6. You can save some money over the Flip by buying a refurbished Zi6 on Amazon.

No, the Mino does not take still photos.

"Snap still photos from video" means that you need to go to your computer and do screen captures from the videos. Not only is it a stupid cumbersome process, but the quality is also pretty bad. Unlike a true still photo mode, like that in the Zi6 (which I also prefer over the Flips), there is no way to preview the resulting photo on the Flip so that you can re-take the photo if necessary. On the Zi6 and other still cameras, you merely need to replay the photo. On the Flip, you won't know how the photo will look until you get to your computer and do a screen capture.

Th elack of a still photo mode is one reason I don't recommend the Flips. It's a shocking omission given how easy it is to include such a mode, and how useful it can be.

Note how horrible the Flip's still images are. Whereas the Kodaks capture a 3meg image, the Flip's screen captures are either 640z480 )VGA) or 1280x720 (< 1 meg!!!).

Click here for the instructions

Here's an excerpt:

The Snapshot feature in FlipShare allows you to capture multiple video frames simultaneously and save them as images. Please refer to the steps below for instructions on how to capture snapshots from your videos.

NOTE: Snapshots are saved in 640 x 480 pixel (standard resolution) or 1280 x 720 pixel (HD resolution) JPG files. For best results, please save the videos on your computer first to reduce the time it takes to generate the Snapshots.

gbokunks wrote:so im new to woot...
but just to make sure...all their items like this come with the charger and everything right?

its not JUST the camera? lol =]

The Mino does not come with a charger. You charge the thing by plugging it into your computer's USB port. You can buy a separate USB charger on ebay for < $5.

AZScott wrote:
The Zi8 does record in .mov which I do not care for.

Anyways, can you tell I like the Zi8 more?

Yeah, I own both the Flip (non-HD) and Kodak Zi6, and it's no comparison. The Kodak (which cost less) has superior features. And no, it's not harder to use.

But like you, I often do not recommend the Kodaks simply because the company stupidly decided to use the MOV format, which Windows folks don't like. Most Windows video editors, especially the free ones, simply won't handle MOVs. Conversion is not only time consuming, but also lessen the quality. There are converters that theoretically won't diminish the quality but it's still a hassle to convert so many video clips. Based on what I've read on various blogs, I'd say that Kodak's refusal to use AVI is the biggest reason their video cameras don't sell.

GUYS, PLEASE BE AWARE THAT WOOT IS NOW CHARGING SALES TAX, AND IT ISN'T MADE CLEAR DURING THE INITIAL ORDERING PROCESS

inod3 wrote:Just checked and Woot is charging sales tax for Washington now as well.

Not really a surprise, seeing as Amazon is headquartered here, though certainly it is going to affect my purchases of anything more expensive like a laptop.

The real issue with Woot is they are not presenting the tax up front. You click on "I want one" and you get a screen with price break down NOT INCLUDING THE TAX.

which each cost $679.99
for a subtotal of $679.99
plus shipping $5.00
for a total of $684.99

Exactly like that (that is copy and paste). Only after you confirm your information does the tax show, and many people wouldn't think to look for it there. It should show up on the first screen, or that "total" cost is simply a lie.

Yeah, that;'s my major objection as well. I didn't see the tax until I got my receipt. I now realized that the tax is on the final order screen, and I could have canceled. But it was unexpected so I had no reason to think that the final screen was different from the first order screen (since tax was never charged). Here are actual screen captures. Note that the first screen gives no hints that it's only a sub-total, subject to taxes. $47 is enough money to make a taxless site cheaper.

Initial Order Screen


Final Order Screen (note the tax)

draigun wrote:It says on the description page: up to 2 hours.

He;s not asking about the number of hours you can use this before the battery runs out. He's wondering how many times you can recharge the battery before it gets so worn out that it can no longer hold a charge. This is a concern because the Li-ion battery is not replaceable.

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer.

yodagump wrote:i'm concerned about the 2x zoom, will this be enough to get my kids at their baseball and soccer games with sufficient quality?

thanks?

Akways go with optical zooming as opposed to digital zooming. And get image stabilization for capturing sports, preferably optical stabilization. Otherwise, your images will be shaky and blurry, epecially when you zoom. Your best bet is to:

1) Get a real digital camcorder with optical zoom, i.e. The JVC Everio GZ-HM200. They resemble the "old" handheld camcorders that used MiniDV tapes. These often have 20x-60x optical zooming. Woot has sold them for < $150.

2) Get a good quality mini camcorder like the Sanyo Xacti VPC-CG10BK. These resemble a handheld taser gun, and have optical zooming in the 5x-10x range. You can find them for a bit over $100.

3) Get a digital still camera. Many now also capture HD movies. Refurbished Kodak models are available for <$70, but their battery life is dismal. Digital cameras offer excellent image quality, and true optical zooming (3x-6x). All offer digital stabilization, but if you spend a bit more, you can get optical stabilization (i.e. Panasonic Lumix cameras). Unfortunately, battery life is not great on any model so these are best for short movies and clips. In fact, some limit you to 10 or 20 min clips. And very few are able to capture stereo sound.

I allllllmost bought this camera a month ago, but ended up going with the Kodak Zi8 instead because of this comparison video:

Flip HD vs. Kodak Zi8

and this side by side review:

The Portable HD Video Recorder Smackdown: Flip UltraHD vs Kodak Zi8

Ultimately, each camera has uses that are perfect for certain types of users. For me, the biggest thing that kept me from buying was the lack of SD card, but other features like the ability to stand in place without a tripod would be really useful. The lack of a tripod has really irritated me since I got my Zi8.

Watching HD on your tv is simple.. you have to buy their $30.00 cord :-)

I've owned a FlipHD for a few months now and loved it. Not sure what the difference is in the video quality, but here's one I took..

http://www.facebook.com/KIBullhorn?v=app_2392950137#!/video/video.php?v=416778344393

And if you like the music, check out Thomas Wynn and the Believers. This is an acoustic set, generally they perform with a band and put on an AMAZING show!

Playtek wrote:i own one of these and the biggest draw back of them is the fail zoom, it's a worthless 2x zoom, hardly noticeable, it takes great short to medium range videos but if your son/daughter are on the other side of the field it isn't as great.

Bone up of the difference between optical and digital zoom. Digital is just in camera cropping, resulting in a loss of quality, In essence this is a non-focusing, no zoom point and shoot video camera. You won't get tight shots of little Johnny batting in Little League.

gbokunks wrote:so im new to woot...
but just to make sure...all their items like this come with the charger and everything right?

its not JUST the camera? lol =]

The camera is charged when you plug it into your USB port.

[quote postid="4065155" user="MooseOfReason"]So, it does take pictures, as does the Kodak Zi6 (which I prefer).

Unless they've changed their design it does screen caps of movies, it does NOT have a shutter button for single still shots.

user868name wrote:It says on the front page that the model # is FVF460. Is this an overseas model that has been refurbished and is the the same as model # M2120M being sold here in the states??

The M2120M is the 8GB 2 hour model.
The FVF460 is the 4GB 1 hour model.

My flip phone got really hot one day (short circuit)? stopped working.
Tech support couldn't care less..
was this a problem in the older cameras?

sdc100 wrote:GUYS, PLEASE BE AWARE THAT WOOT IS NOW CHARGING SALES TAX, AND IT ISN'T MADE CLEAR DURING THE INITIAL ORDERING PROCESS



Yeah, that;'s my major objection as well. I didn't see the tax until I got my receipt. I now realized that the tax is on the final order screen, and I could have canceled. But it was unexpected so I had no reason to think that the final screen was different from the first order screen (since tax was never charged). Here are actual screen captures. Note that the first screen gives no hints that it's only a sub-total, subject to taxes. $47 is enough money to make a taxless site cheaper.

Initial Order Screen


Final Order Screen (note the tax)

Tax in WA. state kills the woot deals for me Goodbye WOOT or should I say Amazon!!

Love this camera! I think I may have the more upper end version of the flip (not really super knowledgeable about all the versions of the flip) but overall such a great little gadget! We have a really nice camcorder we spent a lot of money on and use our flip a lot more. It's great for catching those funny little moments that toddler's have without notice! Plus, my toddler gets a little camera conscious with that bigger camcorder out. The flip is more inconspicuous and she doesn't seem to notice much. Flip makes that fabulous software that makes it a breeze to share our little moments with grandma and grandpa! We bought some accessories including a little tripod that we set up on the table and get that all important baby-with-a-face-full-of-chocolate type footage! We do prefer the camcorder for more "movie" type footage like our 9 year old's soccer games and such but for everyday moments that only last..well...a moment the Flip is fabulous!

For those interested here is a professional review with comparisons at CamcorderInfo.com. Really cam in handy last time I bought a digital camcorder.

I got a refurbed flip mino cam in a bag of carp (yay) but it wouldn't record (boo). After trading a few emails with Flip Support, they offered to replace it, free of charge, even though I didn't have a receipt. Well, I had a receipt, but it didn't show that it was for a Mino, the only thing itemized on there said "crap".

I only had to pay one-way shipping.

So my experience with Flip Support was extremely positive.

Feel free to watch more footage. I made my decision about six months ago and got a Zi6.

Hmm, I bought the Zi6 about 3 months ago - used it once. Took about an hour for the software to transform the videos that I took into something that I could see, then another chunk of time to get them into a format for my iPad. Hated the videos, and hated the time it took to find out that I hated the videos. Currently, I can't get the software off my machine, and it starts everytime I put an SD card into the computer.
As of now, I take all videos from my camera.

Its ashame they switched to lithium instead of AAs like the originals had. I picked up the 60 (640x480) for work and love it. Problem with lithiums is that it is so much easier to pop in a new set of AAs. Its why I went with my Canon IS590 instead of some of the others.

Nice device though. Too bad the batts are no longer AA.

Anyway know how long these last? I read someone posted 2 hours. Is this accurate? Also, how long does it last without use? <- referring to battery drain over time.

These are probably good cameras for casual shooting of the kids' birthday parties and whatnot, but not for much else. The lack of SD card support is a deal breaker for me since I mostly want to use it for recording live music in bars and similar venues and need to record several sets of an hour plus in a single evening.

I recently bought a Zoom Q3 for that, but I'm horribly disappointed in the video in low-light situations, so I'm going to sell it and get something like the Kodak Zi6 and record the audio on my Zoom H2.

I wonder what cable comes with the camera? My wife and I bought the same camera at Target and it did not include a cable for hooking it up to the TV. We then found that the miniHDMI to HDMI that you need to hook it up to a TV runs about $70 at Best Buy; I later bought the same cable online for about $20 elsewhere.

i don't have the mino (i have the ultraHD), but one thing that is annoying is the lens constantly getting dirty. there's no lens cap or anything, so there are always smudges, especially when you slide it in and out of the little velvet bag thing they give you.

it's also pretty tough to get steady shots, since there's no image stabilization or anything.

i had to buy a USB jumper cable because the USB port on my desktop is high up.

the sound is surprisingly good on the ultra, so maybe the same is true for this one.