uli2000 wrote:What can the TRS imputs be used for? Is that a pro audio thing?

Yes, it's a Pro Audio thing. The red/white RCA jacks are unbalanced inputs (as usual), but the TRS jacks are balanced inputs. What's the difference.....ha ha. Search the Internet.

phacopida wrote:What is the difference between the M-Audio professional speakers and these professional REFERENCE speakers? What makes it a reference model?

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=products.family&ID=studiomonitors

for their products ... these are REFURBISHED .. how they can sell for 90 bucks is unk -- very high price for refurbished stuff

I just recently went through the process of researching and purchasing studio monitors for my home studio. After trying many different monitors and deliberating endlessly, here are my two cents:

For use as casual speakers for music/movies, they are going to be more than suitable, but if you are looking for good studio monitors for audio mixing then you should hold off and save up a little for a pair of KRK Rokits. While the M-Audios are great quality for the price range, just remember that you get what you pay for. Also, without a sub, you are going to be looking at limited bass (especially if you like to bump your beats). I personally was not willing to make the compromise in quality to save a few bucks when it came to my audio, but thats just me...

uli2000 wrote:
What can the TRS imputs be used for? Is that a pro audio thing?

TRS (or Tip / Ring / Sleeve) cables carry a balanced signal. Think of the signal going down the tip wire in the positive direction, and going down the ring wire in the negative direction (that's where the balanced part comes from). The sleeve connects to ground. Any static or other interference the cables pick up will be in the same direction on both wires. At the far end, one signal is inverted and the static will cancel out but the transmitted signal volume will double. Yes, it is for professional applications.

petes256 wrote:What the hell are you talking about? For speakers this size to go below 100Hz is remarkable.

I've heard these are pretty decent speakers. A lot better than your built-in laptop ones for sure.

Piffle, blather and hogwash!

Most quality audio speakers go down to that range, and some even further!

For example, see the Knight 1, the smallest in the Castle Speakers range:
Freq Range at -6 dB 46 hz - 24 khz

promyst wrote:As long as they aren't DOA you are going to love these.

Good enough...I appreciate the vote of confidence!

M-Audio Av30 and Av40 both have heat problems, worth googling, including burnt out amplifiers early in their lives. That being said, I had a pair of Av30 and they did sound phenomenal, even better after burn in. I returned them because of the heat and the lack of bass, which I hear seems much better in the Av40s even though the frequency difference is only 5Hz.

After returning my Av30s I bought some Swan M10s which are "super amazing" great, but I probably would have jumped on these for this price, and bought a small desk fan with the difference.

Also, according to the M-audio forums, the TRS inputs happily accept and unbalanced source.

http://forums.m-audio.com/showthread.php?24288-Possible-fix-for-overheating-problem-of-AV40

uli2000 wrote:What can the TRS imputs be used for? Is that a pro audio thing?

Yeah, TRS is generally pro audio. I started to type up an explanation on my own, but sweetwater.com's is better.

TRS is the abbreviation for “Tip, Ring, Sleeve.” It looks like a standard 1/4" or 1/8" plug, but with an extra “ring” on its shaft. TRS cables have two conductors plus a ground (shield). They are commonly used to connect balanced equipment, or for running both "left" and "right" mono signals to stereo headphones. You will also find TRS connectors on the stem of Y cables. These are used for mixer insert jacks where the signal is sent out through one wire, and comes back in through the other.

TS is the abbreviation for "Tip, Sleeve" and refers to a specific type of 1/4"or 1/8" connector that is set up for two-conductor, unbalanced operation. One insulator ring separates the tip and sleeve. The tip is generally considered the "hot," or the carrier of the signal, while the sleeve is where the ground or shield is connected. TS cables are best known as guitar or line-level instrument cables.

Knickfan91 wrote:I have AV30's and LOVE them, got them late '09. Would these be worth upgrading, or should I jump to BX5a's/KRK5's?

Depends on your budget. I paid $300 6-7 years ago for my pair KRK RP5s (g1) and absolutely love them. Depending on what you use them for and personal preference, you don't even need a subwoofer with them (I only just recently bought one to set up 5.1 for movies).

If you buy brand new KRK RP5s, you'll be getting the G2s for about $300. However, if you hunt around for the old G1s (really not much difference), you can find a pair for half of that.

epistemologonhere wrote:Piffle, blather and hogwash!

For example, see the Knight 1, the smallest in the Castle Speakers range:
Freq Range at -6 dB 46 hz - 24 khz

I believe they probably meant, "For speakers this size to go below 100Hz at this price is remarkable."

I have a feeling the ones you linked to are a bit pricier.

EDIT: BTW, anybody still curious about TRS and TS connectors . . . please turn on safe search before searching google images for either.

josephraa wrote:Depends on your budget. I paid $300 6-7 years ago for my pair KRK RP5s (g1) and absolutely love them. Depending on what you use them for and personal preference, you don't even need a subwoofer with them (I only just recently bought one to set up 5.1 for movies).

If you buy brand new KRK RP5s, you'll be getting the G2s for about $300. However, if you hunt around for the old G1s (really not much difference), you can find a pair for half of that.

I'm just looking for an upgrade, upgrade-itis has stricken me after 1.5yrs. Should I buy 2 separate/new KRK RP5's new on ebay that'll run me about 200? I don't want to buy used.

Knickfan91 wrote:I'm just looking for an upgrade, upgrade-itis has stricken me after 1.5yrs. Should I buy 2 separate/new KRK RP5's new on ebay that'll run me about 200? I don't want to buy used.

Yes, go for the KRKs. I bought a pair two weeks ago and haven't been able to stop listening to them. I do a lot of recording and mixing and the KRKs are impressive. IMO the M-Audios don't even compare...

Just keep in mind that you will need some sort of interface (presonus audiobox, apogee one/duet, etc) to use them properly and get the quality that you are paying for.

As a prog-rock fan, I think the write up captured the essence of the culture pretty well.

tdurden wrote:It's like using the word "fine" before wine. Have you ever heard of a wine that wasn't "fine"? Of course not. It's all BS.

Franzia comes to mind.

Just to help people make sense of some numbers and words...

85Hz to 20kHz... this means that these speakers cover the majority of the audible hearing range, that being said YOU WILL NOT hear what is known as "true bass" (20Hz to about 70Hz), but you shouldn't expect that from only a 4" driver, but what you do hear and what the "bass reflex" design increases, is the upper harmonics of the bass, which is fine up to a point, it's the frequencies which enable you to differentiate between instruments (i.e. what makes you know it's a double bass) you just don't have the fundamental frequencies, for that you need a subwoofer...

101.5dB SPL... this means these speakers get loud, like snowmobile / motorcycle loud. almost twice as loud as what will cause hearing loss (90dB, yes 10dB is twice as loud, it's a logarithmic scale)...

Now...
MSRP $229.99... THESE ARE NOT AUDIOPHILE... they might sound ok, but you will never get audiophile equipment for under $500, unless it's a capacitor or something... unfortunately in the audio world, you get what you pay for, and 230 bucks doesn't buy you much... I consider my sound system pretty good, but nowhere near audiophile level and I've spent thousands on it... Audiophile is an extremely overused marketing word, so just beware... If someone wanted a "reference" product for $230, I would recommend getting a nice pair of headphones (hears a hint, pretty much anything with out the word "beats" on it...).

That being said, for $90... I'd get them, why not, it's one hell of a deal...

josephraa wrote:I believe they probably meant, "For speakers this size to go below 100Hz at this price is remarkable."

I have a feeling the ones you linked to are a bit pricier.

They are, but they are also smaller! Re cost, ok, yes these are cheap, but I still want good bass response in bookshelf speakers. And these are large for that!

Here's another example, and I'm only using companies I know are good and respected for sound: KEF makes good budget audiophile speakers, at retail, equivalent to these ($150ish) and their C1 smallest speakers are specced at 65Hz - 40kHz! They are $179 at amazon, competitive with these (having better specs) at normal retail outlets.

In other words, we ought to have better low-end response!

Knickfan91 wrote:I'm just looking for an upgrade, upgrade-itis has stricken me after 1.5yrs. Should I buy 2 separate/new KRK RP5's new on ebay that'll run me about 200? I don't want to buy used.

If you're using them for pro audio, then absolutely go for the KRKs and keep your old ones to cross-reference your mixes.

Otherwise, you should just save your money if you're satisfied with the AV30s. I really doubt you'll notice a worthwhile difference going to AV40s. The primary differences are a 3" "woofer" vs a 4" "woofer" and the addition of the 1/4" input. The reason I quote "woofer" is because they don't go down very low and are more like mid-range drivers than actual woofers. The RP5s have 5.25" drivers and go down about 30hz more than these. They're also a lot more powerful, made of better material, etc.

Last time Woot! sold AV30s - and unfortunately, the pair I received were defective.

I needed some speakers right away, so I ended up ordering a pair of AV40s from [some other website] with next day shipping. I have been totally happy with them - for the price, they have great sound. I haven't experienced any heat issues whatsoever, and they have a nice assortment of inputs for flexibility.

As such, I just ordered 3 right here. Thanks Woot!

epistemologonhere wrote:They are, but they are also smaller! Re cost, ok, yes these are cheap, but I still want good bass response in bookshelf speakers. And these are large for that!

Here's another example, and I'm only using companies I know are good and respected for sound: KEF makes good budget audiophile speakers, at retail, equivalent to these ($150ish) and their C1 smallest speakers are specced at 65Hz - 40kHz! They are $179 at amazon, competitive with these (having better specs) at normal retail outlets.

In other words, we ought to have better low-end response!

Lower isn't always better, for instance I know KEF products and the speakers you mentioned, yah they might "go lower" but their low end is muddy and slow...

for 4" drivers, 80Hz to 90Hz is where you should be in a ported system, anything lower will over tax your drivers and result in horrible sounding low end...

epistemologonhere wrote:They are, but they are also smaller! Re cost, ok, yes these are cheap, but I still want good bass response in bookshelf speakers. And these are large for that!

Here's another example, and I'm only using companies I know are good and respected for sound: KEF makes good budget audiophile speakers, at retail, equivalent to these ($150ish) and their C1 smallest speakers are specced at 65Hz - 40kHz! They are $179 at amazon, competitive with these (having better specs) at normal retail outlets.

In other words, we ought to have better low-end response!

I'm not really disagreeing with you, just making an observation. Personally, I completely ignore anything that doesn't go down to 60hz or less when I'm making a purchase.

timmyd24601 wrote:85Hz to 20kHz... this means that these speakers cover the majority of the audible hearing range, that being said YOU WILL NOT hear what is known as "true bass" (20Hz to about 70Hz), but you shouldn't expect that from only a 4" driver, but what you do hear and what the "bass reflex" design increases, is the upper harmonics of the bass, which is fine up to a point, it's the frequencies which enable you to differentiate between instruments (i.e. what makes you know it's a double bass) you just don't have the fundamental frequencies, for that you need a subwoofer...

While you may be right, once you get used to having [decent quality] low frequency response, you'll never want to go back.

I got a pair of these a few months ago and have been loving them.

These speakers work best when level with and pointing towards your head. Putting them down on the table (or on a bookshelf) will not sound as good as raising them up to eye-level and having them at about 45 degree angles to the right and left.

phacopida wrote:What is the difference between the M-Audio professional speakers and these professional REFERENCE speakers? What makes it a reference model?

"reference monitors" are what pro engineers listen on when they are "mixing" a song. They are supposed to sound accurate. In this situation it's meaningless.
Probably a great speaker at the price.

noticed a bass boost switch in the pic. anyone who has these, is the sound more accurate with or without the "bass boost"?

REFERENCE typically refers to loudspeakers used in a studio setting, where they should have a linear frequency response so you can accurately mix your music. As opposed to loudspeakers on your stereo which typically alter the sound to what people want to hear.

phacopida wrote:What is the difference between the M-Audio professional speakers and these professional REFERENCE speakers? What makes it a reference model?

epistemologonhere wrote:
In other words, we ought to have better low-end response!

Frequency response always has been the "contrast ratio" of the audio world - i.e. it is total BS in that the way it is specified for audio products makes it almost completely meaningless and certainly nothing to make a buying decision over.

These speakers are decent for their price and size is about all you can say about them.

The left side speaker generates a bit of heat so don't put them on a bookshelf- they need a little air around them to keep the amplifier cool.

timmyd24601 wrote:(90dB, yes 10dB is twice as loud, it's a logarithmic scale)

Not to be an ass, but for the sake of knowledge... if by "twice" you mean "ten times" then you're absolutely right.

josephraa wrote:While you may be right, once you get used to having [decent quality] low frequency response, you'll never want to go back.

TOATALLY agree man! Thats why floorstanding speakers are the way to go!!!

bobthenormal wrote:Not to be an ass, but for the sake of knowledge... if by "twice" you mean "ten times" then you're absolutely right.

No I mean twice... 6dB is what we hear as twice as loud, but 10dB is actually twice as loud... 1dB is an inaudible difference...

bobthenormal wrote:Not to be an ass, but for the sake of knowledge... if by "twice" you mean "ten times" then you're absolutely right.

Uh, no. 10 dB means twice as loud. But what is twice as loud? It is easier to tell when one thing is louder than another as long as the difference is sufficiently large, but how do you define "twice as loud"?

see here:

http://trace.wisc.edu/docs/2004-About-dB/

epistemologonhere wrote:Piffle, blather and hogwash!

Most quality audio speakers go down to that range, and some even further!

For example, see the Knight 1, the smallest in the Castle Speakers range:
Freq Range at -6 dB 46 hz - 24 khz

Yeah, those are about $400 a piece, not $89 a pair.

I got these from woot a few years ago and they do sound amazing, but they didn't last long. the electronics inside burnt out when I wasn't using it. And it gets really hot when I did.

bobthenormal wrote:Not to be an ass, but for the sake of knowledge... if by "twice" you mean "ten times" then you're absolutely right.

10db difference is perceived to be twice as loud, but requires 10x the amplification.

I actually got these through deals.woot a couple of weeks ago, only more expensive... kicking myself now, of course. But it's worth missing out on a fresh woot for the write-up, as I'm listening to some King Crimson through these bad boys right now! I also picked up a couple of these badass speaker shelves, and believe me, it's a much classier look than the "bird's nest of tangled wires" decor of my college days... waaaay back in the day when you could say the words "prog rock" without being hit back with a "oh, prog rock, what is that, like Dream Theater or something?"

Is the WootOff over? is this the item for today? I don't have money in my account right now but want to put some in tomorrow when the banks open. I really want these speakers! arrgh! this is frustrating! >

The Kefs have larger cabinets, are more expensive (especially in comparison to this woot), and are unpowered. Not really a fair comparison.

I've owned Kef speakers, and think highly of them. Too bad they're made in China instead of the UK where the used to be made.

epistemologonhere wrote:They are, but they are also smaller! Re cost, ok, yes these are cheap, but I still want good bass response in bookshelf speakers. And these are large for that!

Here's another example, and I'm only using companies I know are good and respected for sound: KEF makes good budget audiophile speakers, at retail, equivalent to these ($150ish) and their C1 smallest speakers are specced at 65Hz - 40kHz! They are $179 at amazon, competitive with these (having better specs) at normal retail outlets.

In other words, we ought to have better low-end response!

Anyone have any experience pairing these with a subwoofer for a 2.1 monitoring system? (For audio production use, not desktop/gaming/etc.) Any recommendations?

promyst wrote:Wiki

I saw that, but that was about 3.5mm TRS plugs, not the 1/4 inch.

I have owned these speakers for over a year and half and I love them. For the price I cannot recommend them highly enough. I use them with a 24" LCD HDTV/Monitor since the built in speakers are pathetic.

You will get excellent accurate clean room filling sound. The highs are silky smooth and easy to listen to. You will not get room shaking bass.....nearly impossible with this size. What you will get bass wise is a rich full smooth sound. The bass boost switch is useful for when playing at low volumes or the audio source needs some punching up. Never use the bass boost at higher volumes or you will smash the coils. These things are indeed quite powerful. Very easy to turn them up too high for safe hearing. While the amp speaker gets warm, I have never had any power supply issues.

another endorsement here. have had them for 4 yrs now. they're a solid buy at retail price. can't go wrong at this price.

My Dogs can hear the Speakers right off the computer screen. Now that's what 20kHz is for!