jmahon wrote:Sure will (+ some ram). However, I don't believe they are 64-bit. I think the T60's are only 32-bit, just FYI.

Yes the T60 will only support 32Bit software.

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Invisiblemoose wrote:Yep. I don't know about all T60's, but this one with a CoreDuo T2400 is not 64bit capable.

I don't believe ANY of the T60's are 64-bit. I think the first 64-bit architecture ThinkPad was the T400. Not sure about the T61w though, as that is basically the version 1 of the T400.

darkinc wrote:this...looks...old...

It won't feel too old though. Apart from the screen and video chip, it's more or less what I have now (Dell D620 with Quadro NVS video and 1280x800 screen). My laptop screams with Windows 7 Ultimate, and I haven't even maxed out the RAM yet.

Granted, that GMA video is a real bottleneck for anything more than light web browsing. You won't be playing anything better than 480p on it. Still, at the price you won't find a more durable "real" notebook apart from the Dell D600 series.

kaidenshi wrote:It won't feel too old though. Apart from the screen and video chip, it's more or less what I have now (Dell D620 with Quadro NVS video and 1280x800 screen). My laptop screams with Windows 7 Ultimate, and I haven't even maxed out the RAM yet.

Granted, that GMA video is a real bottleneck for anything more than light web browsing. You won't be playing anything better than 480p on it. Still, at the price you won't find a more durable "real" notebook apart from the Dell D600 series.

Any Dell laptop is a "real" laptop?

owenv! wrote:soooo, does this come with any version of Windows? Or was that lost in the lease? I don't see it in the description.

It says Windows XP...

Like everyone else has stated, these are bulletproof laptops.

I especially like the thumbstick in the middle of the keyboards, and for those who don't like thumbstick mouse replacement its no problem as it really doesn't get in the way.

theguruguys wrote:Like everyone else has stated, these are bulletproof laptops.

I especially like the thumbsticks in the middle of the keyboards, and those who don't like it no problem as it really doesn't get in the way.

TrackPoint! It's useful sometimes but I tend to either use a bluetooth mouse, a full size USB mouse or the trackpad more. I always forget it's there.

rom wrote:What is the difference between this T60 and another version which is T60p?

T60p as seen on Trusted Reviews:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/Lenovo-IBM-ThinkPad-T60p_Laptop_review

the 'p' stands for 'performance'. Basically it has a discreet graphics card (ATI X1300 in this case), and probably a beefed up CPU.

Pudnhead wrote:Parallel and serial ports in the docking station? Is there any use for those anymore or is that just an indication of how old this is? This is a serious question, by the way.

Actually yes, there is a lot of things that are still programmed with serial connections. Control systems in manufacturing and facilities, card access, security systems, fire alarm systems. These are things that aren't upgraded every couple years, so people in that line of work still need them. And it's difficult to find. So refurbs are very popular for that.

Phoenix84 wrote:the 'p' stands for 'performance'. Basically it has a discreet graphics card (ATI X1300 in this case), and probably a beefed up CPU.

Really? Last I knew, the "p" designation was basically that the unit was VPro capable or not. That's directly from our Lenovo rep.

jmahon wrote:I don't believe ANY of the T60's are 64-bit. I think the first 64-bit architecture ThinkPad was the T400. Not sure about the T61w though, as that is basically the version 1 of the T400.

T61/61p is 64-bit. Core2Duo. That's what I have.

jmahon wrote:Really? Last I knew, the "p" designation was basically that the unit was VPro capable or not. That's directly from our Lenovo rep.

My bad, mine certainly is vPro, but I don't recall seeing the discreet graphics on the non-p models. Could be wrong though.

EDIT: I knew I wasn't crazy (completely):
http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-prior-T-series-ThinkPad/T43p/td-p/178025
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad

The x1300 is available on the T60, so I was wrong there:
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60p

integrator97 wrote:Actually yes, there is a lot of things that are still programmed with serial connections. Control systems in manufacturing and facilities, card access, security systems, fire alarm systems. These are things that aren't upgraded every couple years, so people in that line of work still need them. And it's difficult to find. So refurbs are very popular for that.

I can back this up from personal experience. Even the newest PLC's we used in the textile dying factories we worked in. What a pain.

There's a reason they send ThinkPads up with the shuttle. These things just don't die if you take good care of them. I have a T21 tucked away somewhere that I still use from time to time. Obviously, that requires some software tweaks to get it running comfortably in the modern era of dual-core, but...

I've transitioned my employer off of Dell/HP laptops to ThinkPads exclusively over the last 3 years. I've seen my issue rate plummet (although this is also partly due to good software practices), and the FRUs have always been easy to find for these.

The dock alone is probably worth this price. If you're not looking for a speed demon, this laptop will make you very happy.

Phoenix84 wrote:My bad, mine certainly is vPro, but I don't recall seeing the discreet graphics on the non-p models. Could be wrong though.

Got it. Aren't they limited to 3gb of ram or something like that though?

First, these have a battery with 2-3 years use on them. Might as well consider this to be a plug-in laptop unless you replace the battery with a new one.

If these were a car, they'd be a 2006 Toyota Camry with 200,000 miles on it. Still might look o.k. and run good, but it's far from being new. For the right price it may be a deal, but that has to be a LOT less than what you'd pay new. (Like 1/6th or less the price of new.)

Considering for about $150 more you can buy NEW 15" laptops without any wear and tear and a faster dual-core processor, new battery, 8X bigger hard drive, 4X the RAM, and FULL 1 year warranty, etc. -- I just can't see getting one of these at this price.

ionman wrote:First, these have a battery with 2-3 years use on them. Might as well consider this to be a plug-in laptop unless you replace the battery with a new one.

Other people have said that these machines are equipped with new batteries during the refurbishing process. Any confirmation on this?

ionman wrote:First, these have a battery with 2-3 years use on them. Might as well consider this to be a plug-in laptop unless you replace the battery with a new one.

If these were a car, they'd be a 2006 Toyota Camry with 200,000 miles on it. Still might look o.k. and run good, but it's far from being new. For the right price it may be a deal, but that has to be a LOT less than what you'd pay new. (Like 1/6th or less the price of new.)

Considering for about $150 more you can buy NEW 15" laptops without any wear and tear and a faster dual-core processor, new battery, 8X bigger hard drive, 4X the RAM, and FULL 1 year warranty, etc. -- I just can't see getting one of these at this price.

When they are refurbished after lease, they get new batteries.

Invisiblemoose wrote:Other people have said that these machines are equipped with new batteries during the refurbishing process. Any confirmation on this?

You do get a a new battery, sometimes it is also known as a "serviceable used part" but the battery itself has been replaced.

Sure you have the right machine? a 15" T60 isn't light, and that is part of the high end line, and are generally quite tough.

But these have Sirius GPP screens, get me the 1600x1200, or for real madness, stick a T61 14" motherboard in it and a QXGA display, 2048x1536!.

Note that while you can stick 4GB in these, you can use a max of three (though 2x2 is a little faster than a 1&2 GB memory modules).

HolyMythos wrote:When I was at a private college all students were given these laptops. Yes, they're cool, until suddenly they aren't.

25% of the students in my class had problems with the screens. Something would get loose on the inside of the screen and the computer screen would go haywire unless you put pressure on it. This meant that people had clips (the kind you use to close a bag of potato chips) on the sides of their screens to continually put pressure on the point so the screen would work correctly. This happened to mine. Note that this all happened within the first year. And when I say 25%, that's a good 1000+ students.

The plastic is also very, very cheap and flimsy. Many of the students had problems where there would be cracks and gaps in the plastic, even though we were all given laptop bags to carry the laptop in. Seriously, any bump could easily break the plastic on this thing.

The only good thing I liked about this computer was that it was light. Very, very light.

There were some with Core 2 Duo that do 64 bit, but this isn't them.

jmahon wrote:I don't believe ANY of the T60's are 64-bit. I think the first 64-bit architecture ThinkPad was the T400. Not sure about the T61w though, as that is basically the version 1 of the T400.

ionman wrote:First, these have a battery with 2-3 years use on them. Might as well consider this to be a plug-in laptop unless you replace the battery with a new one.

If these were a car, they'd be a 2006 Toyota Camry with 200,000 miles on it. Still might look o.k. and run good, but it's far from being new. For the right price it may be a deal, but that has to be a LOT less than what you'd pay new. (Like 1/6th or less the price of new.)

Considering for about $150 more you can buy NEW 15" laptops without any wear and tear and a faster dual-core processor, new battery, 8X bigger hard drive, 4X the RAM, and FULL 1 year warranty, etc. -- I just can't see getting one of these at this price.

In a year, when the new $400 laptop starts to disintegrate, this guy will still be going strong.

But, it's true. It'll still be oldish and slowish. Though I have a T61p that's now... what, more than three years old?--and it's still no slouch. Three hours on the battery, sturdy as ever, plenty quick. But it's a revision newer, and the workstation model to boot.

Just go buy a new T-series Thinkpad.

How would this work for an employee who only needs a laptop at home to access a property management program on the Internet?

nickmcmahon wrote:When they are refurbished after lease, they get new batteries.

Can we get a Woot Staffer to confirm this? The value of this deal would be MUCH better if the battery is new enough to hold a decent charge.

Supposedly with a BIOS flash (and if mobo revision supports it), you can upgrade this to a Core2Duo w/64-bit: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=40494

ionman wrote:Can we get a Woot Staffer to confirm this? The value of this deal would be MUCH better if the battery is new enough to hold a decent charge.

I'm not a woot staffer, however, I am a Lenovo authorized repair center, and I knor for a fact Lenovo does not sell these off lease without doing a complete refubish, in which always includes a battery designed to last up to 2-3 hours.

mgm wrote:How would this work for an employee who only needs a laptop at home to access a property management program on the Internet?

would be perfect.

parahaps wrote:In a year, when the new $400 laptop starts to disintegrate, this guy will still be going strong.

Perhaps, but the $379 laptop will be fixed for up to a year if something fails, this one is a brick if something fails after 90 days.

BigD wrote:This is a business notebook that a company leased from IBM.

It's quite possible that this is my old work laptop. Would it be weird if I bought it and it WAS?????

ionman wrote:Perhaps, but the $379 laptop will be fixed for up to a year if something fails, this one is a brick if something fails after 90 days.

Not true. The FRUs for Lenovo laptops are much easier to find, and much cheaper in my experience. The extortionary prices charged to repair something like a Dell, HP, or even Mac means a laptop in this price region is a throwaway if it ever breaks, imo.

(Just replaced a faulty keyboard on a L512 today, these things are not insanely difficult to take apart to do so, unlike many consumer-grade laptops I've worked on)

jmahon wrote:Any Dell laptop is a "real" laptop?

The Latitude D series generally are excellent road warriors. If you avoid the ones with Vista pre-installed, or put Win7 on there instead, what you will have is a very durable workhorse that will last forever, and if you do break anything the parts are cheap easy to replace by the user.

The one I have, a D620 Core2Duo with Nvidia graphics, has a serial port, four USB ports, VGA out, Cardbus, two PCI-E slots (one of which is designed to take a WWAN card, and there's a SIM slot on the mainboard, the other has an N150 card), a Smartcard reader, ambient light sensor, lighted keyboard (the light has burned out but I'm due a replacement keyboard anyway), DVD/RW, bluetooth, HD audio, SATA hard drive, and a dual trackpad/pointing stick. That's a hell of a lot for a machine I paid just over $200 for refurbished.

In fact, the only thing it lacks is stereo speakers (headphone out is stereo but there's only one onboard speaker). Given that it's a business machine and not an overpriced, bulky multimedia donkey I'm pretty damn happy with it. It converts video at nearly twice the speed of my 3.2GHz H/T P4 desktop, it runs cool and quiet, the frame and most of the casing are metal and not plastic, and it's highly upgradeable considering its age.

Of course, I wouldn't touch a Dell Inspiron or XPS laptop for any amount of money. In fact if I were given one of the above I'd strip it for upgrades and part out the rest. The Vostro, Optiplex and Latitude lines are the way to go if you want a quality machine from Dell.

Kirbydooo wrote:USB ports ARE serial ports..., they can be easily adapted to accept a DB9 connection if you needed to use an antiquated device...or if you were trying to old school TELNET into a router or PBX or something...you dont have to do dig up the dinosaur...just spend a couple of bucks on an adaptor yo!

USB serial adapters often work, but they can be fickle creatures. If you use serial a lot, especially on more than one type of controller or panel, whatever you're connecting too, than true serial is much more reliable.

nickmcmahon wrote:I'm not a woot staffer, however, I am a Lenovo authorized repair center, and I knor for a fact Lenovo does not sell these off lease without doing a complete refubish, in which always includes a battery designed to last up to 2-3 hours.

can you tell us more if there's anything being replaced beside the battery...

integrator97 wrote:USB serial adapters often work, but they can be fickle creatures. If you use serial a lot, especially on more than one type of controller or panel, whatever you're connecting too, than true serial is much more reliable.

That and any non-standard serial device has major trouble, particularly if it requires precise timings (ie. custom gov't equipment). IIRC, the serial port on the dock is TRUE serial, so no issues there.

I have a Refurbished T43 which runs great.
Added ran and a battery and its like a new machine. Ordered todays Woot.

I had one of these at work and if I recall they are about 5 years old.... but like other people have said, they (like all T-series Thinkpads) are very tough. Very easy to service (you can find the full service manuals online)

If you need a full sized laptop I would rather have this than some Intel Atom powered cheap laptop.

And the docking station is fantastic. All your cables can connect to the docking station. You can keep the laptop closed and use external accessories. The docking station has a power button even.

When you want to go mobile just push the bottom and go.

Also, Thinkpads have great embedded firmware for battery management. You can set the battery to stop charging at 90% and only start to charge when it goes below 70%. Why? Because it will not kill the battery if you keep it plugged in all the time.

My company does no lease laptops so we still have many of the T60s in service still. (We are now retiring the older T43 previous generation) People drop them, spill coffee on them, and do other god-awful things to them and they often keep on running.

Oh and yes, the docking station has SPDIF out on it (the black RCA connector on the side) and you can drive two external monitors at the same time off the docking station.

You can also buy the bigger advanced dock from Lenovo (or ebay) that has an extra optical drive and a PCI-Express slot in it. (Though only a 1x if I recall)

In addition you can get an ultrabay adapter (off ebay) to replace the built in optical drive with a second SATA drive. (For dual internal drives) The Ultrabay can also accomodate a second battery.

Changing out the primary hard drive literally takes 30 seconds. One screw and it's out.

Froogle about 50-60 more than Woot refurbished
But you can still get a new one for around $390

With 2gb I use Windows 7 no problem, including the odd day where I'm busy between dreamweaver and photoshop.

I just got a 9-cell battery for $35 on eBay. The laptop now runs for 4.5 hours.

You can get a brand new sandy bridge 15.6 laptop for $349

This thing is used, it's 5 years old, and runs Windows XP. I'd be happy if i got one of these in a Big o' Cosmos but that's about it.