buffaloed wrote:You need an amplifier. This Pyle would probably do nicely: http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-2x75W-Stereo-Power-Amplifier/dp/B001P2R1RW/

Anything with an amp with an aux input and speaker outputs will do. I use an old radio.

These have bare wire binding post connections plus are not powered. You would be spending some decent money to make these computer speakers but if willing to do so go for it and add a sub if you really want to rock. Get something that will use the 6 Ohm rating

Nearly 3 times the price at Sears

In for one, first woot in awhile. Also picked up one of these to run them.

Utlkalot15 wrote:I was just looking at audioengine's products and these come along. I'm totally new to AV equipment. Are there any guides for noobs online in matching speakers such as these to an AV receiver?

Most (if not all?) of Audioengine's speakers are active - they have built in amplifiers and you would need your own amplifier with these. Also, the Audioengine products work really well if you're looking for some sort of wireless sound system - they have an electrical outlet to plug in something like Apple's Airport Express and can take inputs from any source, including iPods.

In short, the only thing these have in common with Audioengine is being bookshelf speakers. I've had the Audioengine A5's and their subwoofer for a few years now and use them with an airport express. They easily fill up a space that's roughly 800 square feet and sound really great at low volumes when I'm sitting right in front of them talking to someone, too.

entrepreneur1800 wrote:These speakers are junk. Don't do it..., It's a trick. Listen to then against any other manufacture in your local best but. (POS)

What exactly makes this such "junk"? Is it b/c of their "faux wood" cabinets and non-removable metal grilles? I have a pair of Paradigm Atom v6s (actually also the matching v6 Paradigm center and di-pole surrounds) and they are pretty awesome. I paid a bit more for those in 2009 but the following Stereophile review suggests the Pioneers sound better than the Atoms v5s, which are very similar to the v6s (Comparisons section):

http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs41-lr-loudspeaker-page-2

The Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 speakers supposedly are better still, but cost more than both the Pioneers and Paradigms. I've not heard the Pioneers or Wharfedales but I don't doubt the latter would sound better than Paradigm given the cost, dimensions, and Kevlar woofer.

I'm on the fence about purchasing a pair of these Pioneers. I might hold out for a pair of Wharfedales later on.

In for one. I think this is the impulsiest purchase I've ever made. My emotions are fluttering from extreme buyer confidence from the designer history to the stereophile review to the relative price to possible insta-remorse from the "junk" comment. Well, my last bookshelves were the infamous insignia 2111s, and I've since downgraded to $8 pcspeakers,they should at least be better than those....

Will Chickenfoot still sound good on these?

A year ago these speakers could be had for $79.99 on Black Friday. It might pay to be patient if you're on the fence. Then again it might not. lol
http://archive.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=0&t=2417255

Could I use these as patio speakers?

Could I put these in the bathroom? Could I use them for end tables? Could I connect them to my car stereo?

On a serious note, I'm contemplating a move of 300 miles in under three weeks. Would these get caught in a mail forwarding nightmare?

I just bought a pair of these at $149/pr. They are surprisingly good. I bought them because of the Stereophile review, and figured that if they did not sound good I could give them away. I put them in my 5.1 system, which I also use for casual stereo listening. Very, very good.

richardhod wrote:It's their size! Small enough to go... on a bookshelf!

Most speakers need some space betgween them adn the wall to sound their best. So make sure you have a big enough bookshelf to leave a couple or a few inches behind them! Never put speakers in the corner of a room. It makes the soundstage muddy, boomy and indistinct.

Ummm... no. Bookshelf speakers are designed to go on a bookshelf, period. You can put them anywhere you personally want but when they were designed, they were designed to go on a bookshelf, against a wall, at listening level. They NEED the wall behind them to extend the lower frequency response smaller speakers inherently lack. Yes, these are small sperkers by audiophile standards. Speakers with a single woofer smaller 8" is a small speaker.

scottskillman wrote:Here is Andrew Jones himself to talk about the speakers. He has a British accent, so they must be good right? Or does that mean he is a villain? I have a hard time keeping that straight.

Or it could mean he is an ancient Roman.

kanamin wrote:In for one. I think this is the impulsiest purchase I've ever made. My emotions are fluttering from extreme buyer confidence from the designer history to the stereophile review to the relative price to possible insta-remorse from the "junk" comment. Well, my last bookshelves were the infamous insignia 2111s, and I've since downgraded to $8 pcspeakers,they should at least be better than those....

Stereo-pile is bought and paid for by its sponsors.. have been for years.. all their reviews are biased. These will sound like $99 speakers.. no magic formula or miracles here.. They might sound better depending on what you have now... but dont expect to be blown away. They are also inefficient and will require a bit of power to make them sing at 85db sensitivity..

mithr wrote:Among other things, it usually means that there's no way to mount them on the wall (well, at least without a device to support them).

build a wedge

"Bookshelf" speakers rarely sound good in bookshelves. It's a terrible place to put speakers from an acoustic standpoint.

mikem53 wrote:Stereo-pile is bought and paid for by its sponsors.. have been for years.. all their reviews are biased. These will sound like $99 speakers.. no magic formula or miracles here.. They might sound better depending on what you have now... but dont expect to be blown away. They are also inefficient and will require a bit of power to make them sing at 85db sensitivity..

Agreed! Get your hands on a pair of vintage (circa 1996) Baby Advents. They'll blow these away in every aspect. You'll just need a little more amplifier to drive them as they are acoustic suspension design compared to vented. In other words, they'll reproduce bass smoothly.

MMMMusic wrote:"Bookshelf" speakers rarely sound good in bookshelves. It's a terrible place to put speakers from an acoustic standpoint.

It depends on who made the speaker.

I paid $149 from newegg last week. They are a sweet deal. They replaced my vintage Polk 7's for my mains in my Stereo Home Theater setup. They also accept banana plugs. You wont be disappointed!

Andrew Jones is one of the three best speaker designers in the world. For $100, you are getting good quality drivers and a well designed crossover. I have listened to these and their floor standing cousins, and they are quite a bit more than just bang for your buck.

How will the Pioneer receiver sold recently on Woot work with these speakers?

Pioneer Dolby TrueHD 5.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver with 3D-Ready HDMI Switching
Pioneer VSX-521-K $149.99+ $5 shipping

u20v00a wrote:I would think the low impedance (6 ohms) would offset the low sensitivity (85dB), but it looks like you'd need a decent power amp to drive these speakers well. A search online shows Recommended Amp Power: 50-130 watts. A shame you can't pair these with a cheap T-Amp for a budget audiophile system...

I have a pair of these in my office driven by a cheap T-Amp (Dayton dta-100a) and they sound great. They should be fine as long as you're room isn't too large.

These speakers are an incredible deal at their retail price, and at this price its
hard to pass up. Seriously, get a pair of these, a DTA-100A, and a cheap external DAC (HRT Music Streamer is a good choice), use your PC as the source, and you'll have a system that sounds incredible for less than $500.

Pass! This is just a stereo set. I need at least a 5.1 set. But that's just me...

kayakernc wrote:Or it could mean he is an ancient Roman.

How different could the design be from other rectangular speakers???

Apparently some Wooters with Kindles are having a tough time with the concept of a "bookshelf." They also puzzle over small yellow boxes in stores marked "35mm film." They think it is a screen protector for very small iPods.

Ringo4422 wrote:Agreed! Get your hands on a pair of vintage (circa 1996) Baby Advents. They'll blow these away in every aspect. You'll just need a little more amplifier to drive them as they are acoustic suspension design compared to vented. In other words, they'll reproduce bass smoothly.

How many of you understand the concept of keeping speakers "in phase?" This is only a problem if you have cables with two wires on each end, not a plug.

todaresq wrote:...
I wish I had room for a proper rack system complete with receiver, amp, dual tape deck, record player, and the reel to reel... I would be able to relive my youth well...

Yeah, my living room rack used to house two audio tape decks, two VCRs, an expensive, dedicated CD player, and a phonograph -- along with a third-octave EQ I used solely as a low-level crossover before feeding into a dedicated subwoofer amp. But since I never used any of that extra stuff (I'm an apartment dweller with a downstairs neighbor I don;t hate, so the sub is no longer used), all I have now is an A/V receiver, a DVD player (which obviously also plays CDs), and my satellite receiver. (Okay, I also have a UPS or two in there for good measure.) It leaves enough room in the rack to put one of my front channel tower speakers on a shelf at listening height, reducing the footprint of the system by that much.

Low price doesn't always mean speakers are bad. If you don't believe me, buy a set of Fluance speakers.

dpaulku wrote:...On a serious note, I'm contemplating a move of 300 miles in under three weeks. Would these get caught in a mail forwarding nightmare?

I don't think that the USPS will forward anything heavier than first class, so you would indeed have a nightmare, since the speakers would be returned to sender.

lethargicmass wrote:I don't think that the USPS will forward anything heavier than first class, so you would indeed have a nightmare, since the speakers would be returned to sender.

The speakers aren't being shipped SmartPost.

They are being shipped FedEx Ground, so it should be there within three weeks.

richardhod wrote:It's their size! Small enough to go... on a bookshelf!

Most speakers need some space betgween them adn the wall to sound their best. So make sure you have a big enough bookshelf to leave a couple or a few inches behind them! Never put speakers in the corner of a room. It makes the soundstage muddy, boomy and indistinct.

Ringo4422 wrote:Ummm... no. Bookshelf speakers are designed to go on a bookshelf, period. You can put them anywhere you personally want but when they were designed, they were designed to go on a bookshelf, against a wall, at listening level. They NEED the wall behind them to extend the lower frequency response smaller speakers inherently lack. Yes, these are small sperkers by audiophile standards. Speakers with a single woofer smaller 8" is a small speaker.

Ummm... no. Bookshelf speakers are speakers, just like their larger cousins, and are subject to the same considerations regarding placement. Everything richardhod said was correct; placing a speaker too close to a wall causes reflections to reach the ear shortly after, and slightly out of phase with, the main sound wave. This causes a degradation in stereo imaging at high frequencies and the boomy, muddy quality to which richardhod referred at lower frequencies. (And yes, this includes the mid-low frequencies that a 6" woofer is capable of reproducing.)

The exception would be the radical departure in cabinet design introduced by Amar G. Bose back in the seventies (the 201 model would be the obvious comparison here), since his speakers avoided the muddiness inherent in reflections by avoiding the reproduction of low notes altogether (via the use of small drivers), and also encouraged reflections by using many of these small drivers, pointed in different directions. By embracing and reinforcing the poor audio design of the average listening area, Amar designed speakers whose sound quality is -- poor though it is -- unaffected, and even enhanced, by room reflections. (At longer delays, reflections add depth and spaciousness, like in an echo-ey concert hall. They're still crap for imaging, but the average listener doesn't care about that.) Add in the ability to use incredibly cheap drivers and no cost associated with crossovers, and you have the low-cost/high-profit formula that made his original "Direct/Reflecting" design so popular with retailers.

arroyoko wrote:How different could the design be from other rectangular speakers???

7.

Ringo4422 wrote:Ummm... no. Bookshelf speakers are designed to go on a bookshelf, period. You can put them anywhere you personally want but when they were designed, they were designed to go on a bookshelf, against a wall, at listening level. They NEED the wall behind them to extend the lower frequency response smaller speakers inherently lack. Yes, these are small sperkers by audiophile standards. Speakers with a single woofer smaller 8" is a small speaker.

There is alot of misinformation in this thread overall.

Regarding the above quote - "bookshelf" speakers is a bit of a misnomer, and is commonly used when talking about monitor speakers as well. Yes, there are genuine bookshelf speakers in that they are designed to take advantage of the low end (bass) reinforcement that results from placing the speaker on a flat surface near a rear wall - ie. a bookshelf.

But there are many speakers, such as these Pioneer BS41's that are referred to as bookshelves that are NOT intended to be placed on a bookshelf. If you want to understand why - look up the term baffle step compensation. Speakers like the BS41 are meant to be placed on a stand with some space between them and the rear wall. Placing them close to the wall, or on a bookshelf, will reinforce the bass, which for a speaker designed such as this, will result in over exaggerated bass.

If the BS41 was actually designed to be placed on a bookshelf against the rear wall, then the measurements in the Stereophile review would show the bass rolling off higher in frequency, so the reinforcement from the shelf/wall wouldn't result in exaggerated/boomy bass.


Other misinformation - Best Buy does NOT sell the BS41. They only sell the BS21, which uses a smaller woofer and smaller cabinet.

These speakers are NOT junk... not even close. Yes, they are budget speakers... and they aren't the most sensitive, so they require more amp power to play as loud as say, the Klipsch or Polk speakers that you find at your local best buy... But, what they are is a very well designed budget speaker from one of today's speaker design geniuses, Andrew Jones, and all you need to do is read the Stereophile review and look at the measurements to know how solid this speaker is for the money.

mikem53 wrote:Stereo-pile is bought and paid for by its sponsors.. have been for years.. all their reviews are biased. These will sound like $99 speakers.. no magic formula or miracles here.. They might sound better depending on what you have now... but dont expect to be blown away. They are also inefficient and will require a bit of power to make them sing at 85db sensitivity..

Regardless, the measurements are there, and show a solid speaker design for the money.

Home Theater Mag had very good things to say about the Pioneer speakers as well.

I owned these for a short time, and they don't sound like $99 speakers. No, they aren't some magic speaker that blows away $1000 speakers. But they are better than alot of junk that sells for more money...

These made Steve Guttenberg's Top 10 list, even at $150...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20099395-47/top-10-great-sounding-speakers-from-$30-to-$400/?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=TheAudiophiliac

--Bill

mikem53 wrote:Stereo-pile is bought and paid for by its sponsors.. have been for years.. all their reviews are biased. These will sound like $99 speakers.. no magic formula or miracles here.. They might sound better depending on what you have now... but dont expect to be blown away. They are also inefficient and will require a bit of power to make them sing at 85db sensitivity..

Have you actually heard these, or are you just looking at the specs and deciding they must be junk?

I have a pair, and they sound fantastic, especially for the price. No, they're not going to replace your Wilson MAXX 3's or anything, but I doubt you could find a set of speakers for anything less than 3x this price that sounds as good.

I already own a pair of these from last year. For a 100$ these speakers are top notch. Great sound for music, good for movies.

Forget all of this.

Get some studio monitors.

M-Audio Studiophile BX5a can be had for $200, and they are active. AKA no amp required. And they are small, perfect for a bookshelf.

Two really important things to remember.

First, as mentioned above, these are passive speakers, not powered speakers, which means you'll need something giving them an amplified signal. Since the amp circuits in many powered speakers are pretty rudimentary, there's a sonic upside to this: you can choose a good amp.

Second, you're going to want to have a separate woofer with these, probably a subwoofer. These are good speakers for mids and highs; they're not intended to reproduce much bass.

[Oh, and that bookshelf designation - agree that actually placing them on a bookshelf (where they'll have a shelf to sit on and also one immediately above them, and perhaps actual books on each side) is less than ideal.]

The more room you can give them, top, bottom and sides, the better. Stands would be ideal, and a little bit of an upward tilt might be good, too, depending upon your room.

These speakers can be made to sound very good.

I have a Sony STR-DG5120 receiver connected to Sony SS-B1000 speakers hooked up to my computer. Most of the time I use them to listen to music, a lot of which is flac encoded.

Am I going to notice an appreciable difference in sound quality if I upgrade to these Pioneers? I am wary that I will not realize much difference at low to medium volumes.

I have been looking at upgrading to studio monitors, but these seem to be a great deal and the price is much more affordable.