Sigh.

I expected this from other places, but not from woot.

Mass Effect is a brilliant story that, by the developers' own admission, the fans have played a huge role in. You write off the empty, soulless character as a bad thing, but that rule only holds true in passive media like books and movies (Twilight comes to mind).

In a video game, it has always been the goal for the player to be the true hero of the story, not their character - has it not?

Mass Effect was one of the first games to accomplish that. To truly make it feel like you are the one saving the day - not some avatar you happen to be in control of.

As many others have said, the reason for this "outrage" is that the rest of the Mass Effect trilogy (including the first 95% of ME3) was so utterly fantastic that it's unbearable to watch it end this way: not with a victorious bang, but with a confused whimper. It's as if Lord of the Rings had ended by Gollum and Frodo flinging themselves into the volcano, then just as the ring hits the lava, the screen cuts to black and credits start rolling. Except for some reason, we find out Bilbo was really a space robot from Jupiter. For those who haven't played the game, it really is that absurd and jarring.

It's disappointing that so many bloggers and journalists (many of whom have never seen the ending) are so quick to lump together and lash out at gamers for voicing their opinion: in a way, I might add, that has mostly remained civil (and even benevolent). I didn't rush off the to FTC screaming and crying: I just quietly requested a refund, sent that money to the protest charity, and have done my best to forget all the time I wasted on the franchise.

I, for one, was happy to donate to charity as a way to send a message: that I love the Mass Effect franchise and I think it deserves a worthy ending. If that's wrong, I don't want to be right.

KaylaKaze wrote:That's like saying if you ordered a Ferrari and got a Honda, you got what you were promised 'cause you got a car. And actually, the game is VERY good... until the last 15 minutes. 15 minutes that were NOT what was promised by BW that the last 15 minutes would be. They EXPLICITLY said it would not be the way it was.

No, it's not. It's like saying you ordered a Ferrari, got a Ferrari, decided you didn't like it, and filed a complaint against the manufacturer.

scarredwithstars wrote:You obviously don't understand the concept behind a Role Playing Game. I know the name is vague and open to interpretation, but basically it's a game, where you play the role of the character.

I spend every Thursday slaying orcs and pillaging treasure in D&D. I'm familiar with RPGs. I'm also familiar with the most basic and universal concepts of storytelling, which is why I know being an Elf in a savage realm is only fun I my character has purpose and there is conflict, not going back and replaying a module to see if maybe this time the barmaid winks at me.

Slydon wrote:Kayla, I did actually look that up, and it's interesting (to me, at least) but I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that the fans created that ending themselves, or that Bioware hid that ending in the game and everyone is misunderstanding what happened? Or are you saying something else I'm too dumb to keep up with?

edit: i'm also too dumb to notice when i make typos

I was just pointing out that it's possible to retcon the ending without it being out of place.

llandar wrote:I'm also familiar with the most basic and universal concepts of storytelling, which is why I know being an Elf in a savage realm is only fun I my character has purpose and there is conflict

And if you played ME3, you'd know that the ending was completely devoid of purpose and conflict and rendered all purpose and conflict that existed throughout the rest of the storyline (the full 3 game storyline, not just ME3's) moot.

garryu wrote:This ending is the "Rocks fall. Everyone dies." version. Is it valid? Yeah. Is it realistic? Yeah. Is it a prick move? Yeah.

Except it's also way outta left field. Like, you're standing in a wide open prairie, without a rock in sight... and the 'rocks fall.' And not just metaphorically, you area literally crushed under a pile of boulders that did not exist moments before. In the final cutscene, the person who was standing next to you when the rocks fell is now sitting on a beach in Panama sipping mai thais with Van Halen.. and you're left going "wait, What Tiny Flowers just happened"

We feel like we were promised answers to our questions. We feel like we actually got " 'Lost' in Space".

Anger and disappointment are normal reactions and justified.

A lawsuit is stupid.

DANGER WILL ROB- oh, not that Lost in Space?

But yeah, agree with you on the final points. It's a terrible ending to a fantastic series, and people are fully within their rights to baby, moan, whine and complain about it.

But law suits... really?

llandar wrote:No, it's not. It's like saying you ordered a Ferrari, got a Ferrari, decided you didn't like it, and filed a complaint against the manufacturer.

Or rather, you got that Honda with a Ferrari badge duct taped on. And the Ferrari dealer tells you

"It says ferrari on the side... you bought it at a ferrari dealership... thus it is."

The analogy kinda falls apart in that you can fully test drive a car before purchasing it, whereas a video game you must buy sight unseen.

You know, this could just be BioWare's way to take the heat off George Lucas for a moment.

Did anybody who is questioning why folks are a bit peeved play the entire series?

Woot staff, I'm looking at you.

I agree with some of the notions that motivated this post, but I don't agree at all with how it ends.

It is okay to dislike the ending. Assuming what happens at the end of ME3 is the true, final ending, Bioware did a total disservice to fans by abandoning themes and characters that were, until this point, really well fleshed out. We've been told that our decisions will matter, but several years and several dollars ($200+ to some diehards, probably) later, the ending didn't reflect that. Fans don't *deserve* a better ending, but they are right to expect one.

Now, Bioware doesn't actually owe me or anyone else anything, but I sure as hell have a right to be mad about the "ending" (can you comfortably call it that?) and post walls of text about it on the internet, just like the author here did from the opposite perspective.

"If you don't like the ending pretend something else happened"
That's not a solution, though. Not at all. Nobody is hurting you or spending your money to threaten to boycott Bioware or approach the FTC. The worst those extremists could do to you is spend some of your time - which the author has allowed them to do through this post. Let them waste their time and money, if that's what makes them feel better, but simply telling them they're wrong doesn't give them the closure they're looking for.

Indoctrination Theory. Read it, believe it, hope it's true. That's my best advice to anyone else who's upset by ME3.

Turken wrote:
But going back to the original point -- what we really need to be concerned about is the very idea that the creator of a work can then be sued by a consumer of said work simply because the latter doesn't like the way it turned out. Can you imagine the implications of this? if every creative work ever made was subsequently retconned to the match the ideality of its most ardent and vocal fans?

They are NOT being sued. FTC complaints are not lawsuits. This has been pointed out already.

llandar wrote:You are upset about the creative content. That does not justify a federal complaint. Do you write your senator every time you see a movie you don't like?

ONE person filed a complaint with the FTC, liandar, while thousands of others have contributed to a meaningful discussion covering everything from corporate promises, compromised journalism, to lorecrafting. Way to throw everyone pushing for a revised ending under the same bus. Thumbs up.

Slydon wrote:This is a real question: Would you feel them making that explanation official would solve the problems? Or would it just be them taking credit for someone else's idea after the fact?

If they gave me a quality ending, I wouldn't care, and I don't think those who came up with the IT would either. I personally don't subscribe to the IT because I don't think the Reapers have anything to do with it. I think it's an entirely internal between various parts of Shepard's mind.

So in the final paragraphs the author is saying the dialog system and multiple choices aren't as good as games where the characters have narrower, fixed paths for the gamers to experience. That's describing JRPGs.

If you prefer JRPGs to Western RPGS like Fallout and Skyrim, then play your JRPGs and don't hate on fans who want to play Western RPGs in which the players have far more freedom about how the characters behave and end up.

Over the course of three games and dozens of hours per game, players experienced a universe that changed based on our decisions. There were many different ways to change what happened. Yet in the last fifteen minutes of the final game, it changes the type of gameplay from a WRPG to a JRPG and none of the previous choices matter. Don't you see why that's inappropriate?

Here's a link about the endings where an English professor calls the endings "Thematically revolting."

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11435886

I guess he's pretty stupid too.

llandar wrote:What if I give you three dialogue choices?

HAHAHA.

A note to the author of the POS blogpost. You should consider writing an instructional post on how to be a complete a**hole to people about something of which you have no idea what you are talking about. Why bother writing about it since you obviously don't care. Maybe you'd like to write an article about how when things you don't like happen, just stand there and take it. Let the man give it to you as hard as he wants, regardless of how much $ its costing you. If you buy a box of oreos at the store and its full of animal crackers, who are you to complain?! There's something in the box right? Well then get over it!

See how stupid you sound when you call everyone stupid?

llandar wrote:Who determined your respect must be kept? See that self-entitlement shining through?

You realize its a business right? SO YEAH, they ought to care about their customer's respect. You realize that being a consumer entitles you to an opinion about a product right? Why does no one get this? We aren't saying we didn't like a painting at an art gallery. We're saying we were told we were buying oreos, but when we opened it it was full of ritz crackers. Thats not self entitlement, thats bad business.

llandar wrote:No, it's not. It's like saying you ordered a Ferrari, got a Ferrari, decided you didn't like it, and filed a complaint against the manufacturer.

Only if the Ferrari was say missing vital engine parts that made it die after a week. Then yes, thats what mass effect 3 did and yes, I'd file a complaint to the manufacturer. This debate is the opposite of sensible. Is woot trying to get rid of some of its customers with this crap writing?

This article got off on a bad start from the beginning by referring to *everyone* who was upset about the ending as "stupid". I figured the title was just for shock value in order to draw more readers, but the article didn't do anything after that to support that notion. In other words, this article is pretty insulting and messed up, and once I realized there was no actual lawsuit (thanks to comments), it lost any value it may have had.

You compare it to not liking a novel. Well, yes, that is exactly what it is. It's called literary critique. If I do not like a book, I am free to say exactly why I do not like that book. If enough people say similar things, the author might take it to heart and produce something better the next time around. Hell, the author may even write a sequel to correct a bad ending.

The same goes for movies, songs, video games, and all other forms of art and entertainment. Criticism is good (generally). It leads to improvement--or at least it should.


If Bioware messed up and made a bad ending, then they need to know that, whether it be through criticism on the internet or official complaints to the company. They're trying to fix it because they want to keep their consumer base. That's smart of them. If they didn't, then they would likely have a harder time in the future releasing something and having customers believe that it will be something of high quality.


Overall, I think the person who takes time to point their finger and complain about the people complaining about not liking the ending is the stupidest of all. How silly is that? Let people be upset. They spent their time and money on it, and it is certainly their right to voice their dissapointment when it doesn't meet what appears to be the majority's expectations.

Now please go back to writing things that are actually funny.

Ahem ....

Compilation of promises and quotes from Bioware/EA staff pre-release. Taken from the Bioware Social Network forums.


Official Mass Effect Website

http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”



Interview with mac-n-cheese-n-cheese Walters (Lead Writer)

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-n-cheese-n-cheese-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”





Interview with mac-n-cheese-n-cheese Walters (Lead Writer)

http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/05/qa-mass-effect-3s-mac-n-cheese-n-cheese-walters-on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are ‘optimal’ endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “





Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”





Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)

http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”





Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-02-bioware-mass-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry

“Every decision you’ve made will impact how things go. The player’s also the
architect of what happens.”

“You’ll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we’re going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it’s being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn’t make”





Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that’s very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”





Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)

http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey-hudson-bioware-co-created-mass-effect-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”





Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C…..The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”

now tell me how I got what I was promised?

rgmekanic wrote:now tell me how I got what I was promised?

That was a ridiculous amount of proof. You win!

Liander, you need to find better things to write about. This only targeted a small demographic and all you did was insult them. From a fellow outsider's view (never played the game), it seems like you think you're a lot funnier/wittier than you actually are... At least on this topic. Better luck next time!