Is it a TENS, or is it a electronic muscle stimulator?

They serve different purposes.

It really comes down to this:

TENS are regulated by the FDA, as others here have also shared. They require a prescription.

EMS, E-stims, etc., are not regulated. No prescrition is required to purchase a muscle stimulator. You even see them on TV commercials as a way to lose fat without exercising (a dubious claim at best).

If this were a TENS, Woot would be breaking the law. This particular product isn't referred to in the product brochure as a TENS, but apparently someone who markets this device has some boilerplate ad copy for resellers that uses that term. Amazon.com, Overstock.com, and others have used this ad copy without verifying the claims or comparing it with what the product manual says it is.

I don't think there is any malice involved in the various resellers using the words given them by someone marketing this device to say that it is a TENS. It's probably not the fault of the company (but it could be).

time2testit wrote:Seriously? Did you even bother to open the brochure link I posted (from the very first post in the discussion here) before you tell everyone (and me) that it is not there? It is the second sentence in their PDF brochure. I don't know what brochure you are reading.

I'm reading from the link that Woot provided, which is this:

https://ssl.catalog.com/~prosperacorp.com/manuals/handheld/PL009%20operating%20manual.pdf

What they linked to SHOULD be the official manual. Apparently there are more manuals out there for the same product that don't agree with each other. Take a look at the one Woot linked to and you'll see quite a different picture.

I did not read from the link you posted until just now, or I wouldn't have made the claim I made about the second sentence. I apologize for the error. We were looking at two different product brochures on the same product that claim different things.

If this is a TENS, the FDA should be made aware of the illegal sale of this without a prescription. It's not sold only here, but in a lot of places, and if they're making that claim, that it is a TENS unit and not a muscle stimulator, then the marketer/importer will need to be made aware of this from the FDA. I'm sure one of the earlier posters who spotted this has already done that.

I seriously doubt that it is a TENS and suspect that the marketing/importing organization is trying to increase sales with some double-talk in their wording. It's strange that two product documents for the same device read differently.

It could also be that it is a TENS unit but they're tying to get around the law in the US by calling it a muscle stimulator in one place and a TENS unit in another.

If it is a TENS, grab one now whether you need it or not, because you won't need a prescription unless the FDA takes immediate action (not likely) and stops shipments of this. This is very cheap for a real TENS, and you will need it when you're 50, 60, 70 or beyond in years when your muscles ache all over.

Sorry for the mix-up. I never expected the product manual Woot posted to be different from the link you posted.

I won't go back and edit my posts because Wooters like to read through a good debate. :-)

clintone wrote:I'm not picking on this wooter, but the comment illustrates a concern I have when I see medical items, even something relatively benign as a TENS, sold to the general public. Any chiropractor, PT, or medical doctor worth their salt isn't replaceable with something like this. The healthcare provider not only serves to administer therapy and treatment but also to monitor progress and to determine the root cause of the problem. This comparison of the TENS being more cost effective than the chiropractor is not much different than rationalizing that an aspirin is cheaper than going to the doctor. Sure, it may just be a headache, but it could also be a tumor, an impending stroke, etc.

I'm not trying to be a naysayer about the TENS, but it shouldn't be perceived as an alternative to seeking professional care.

I agree, though I will say that my chiropractor recommended that I buy one for occasional use between sessions. And I have had sessions where most of the treatment was this plus ultrasound. So I am buying this one and going a little less often to the chiropractor's office.

bolligra wrote:Where can I get a Pulitzer Prize application? I'm going to do the same thing. Maybe a Nobel prize also. ;]

http://www.pulitzer.org/files/entryforms/lentform12.pdf, but sorry, entries are closed for this year!

I've never used this particular model (that I know of) but I have had TENS machines used on myself, friends, and family for chronic or severe muscle pain. These things are amazing and you should definitely consult with your Doctor.

$50.00 at amazon

An argument over whether or not this is a tens unit? Seriously?

I got one similar and it cost way more and has a tens or ems setting. I'm no doctor, but I notice no difference with the settings.

Point is, get it, it's a great deal.

sjriney wrote:Every website selling them including woot mention that it is FDA registered and approved. Please, in the future actually look into things before blowing smoke out your rear.

I mean who really cares. Does insurance recognize accupuncture? It has done more for me than 25 years of approved treatments. Have you ever read the fine print on all the medication on the market? I mean most of them tell you in certain instances the medication resulted in death. Cmon What Tiny Flowers is it FDA approved. Haha i have nerver heard of it killing anyone. Electricians get shocked by more juice everyday. I mean this is 6 volts. What a tool.

I'm a practicing physical therapist assistant. I have been trained and certified to use devices similar to this one.

If you'd like to know my opinion, I don't think anyone without training should purchase and use a device like this -- not without supervision from a trained medical professional. Frankly, the lack of detailed instructions in the user manual makes me a bit nervous.

That being said, electrical stimulation devices can work wonders (I've seen it myself!) but only if they are used properly.

So really, it's up to the buyer -- but let the buyer beware.

ThunderThighs wrote:

It’s time for another round of Woot! Clue! to guess the next product up for sale.

Tonight’s game is over at KIDS



NOTICE: Woot! Clue! is going to take a break after this week as we evaluate and reassess the game and possible future events for the community.

darn and I was gonna guess HEX Bugs Habitat.

You can use the ol Pulse Massager to defib a puny Hex Bug.

gravityisweak wrote:Can I use this to exercise my abs?

This devices won't give you a six pack. Sorry to disappoint. :P

pyo05 wrote:I was told by a doctor that you need a prescription to buy one of these. Looks like I beat the system

Nah. Tens units like this are widely available without a scrip. The doctor wanted to collect a co-pay for the office visit.

notaguru wrote:If you examine all the photos, you'll see that it has several location-specific settings. One button is clearly labeled JOINT.

Eliminates the guesswork.

Yeah. I tried it on the "joint" setting, but it didn't have enough juice to light it up.. I used a Bic lighter instead. It would be REALLY helpful if it had a "bong" setting..

A friend of mine was given this unit by his doctor some time back, and when several of us were at his house later we were playing with it, putting it on various parts of our bodies to see what would happen. When I randomly attached it to each side of my neck, I was instantly declared the Freak of the Party. It happens that if the current is turned up, the muscles in each side of your neck will swell and pulsate like a lizard's in the summer heat of the Texas sun. I also read later that the neck thing is dangerous and can kill you, but somehow I escaped death that day. Children, don't try this at home.

I'm ordering this unit today because I can testify that it's good for breaking the pain cycle of knotted muscies, but also because it makes such a danged fun party accessory.

twopuppies wrote:Try quinine. I was on dialysis for ten years and that's what the nurses gave us. It should be available over the counter (or ask your pharmacist to order it). I always keep some at home.

Tonic water used to have quinine in it, too. Check the label. It seems I saw another product at Walgreens a few years ago that also contained quinine.

Do you have to use all 4 pads, or can you just use two? The manual only shows 2 in almost all the drawings.

really wish WOOT would give us an option for shipping -my sis in lawis getting married next week and I'll need this before then. Any woot staffer able to assist??

I have had an Omron TENS unit for years, in fact I just replaced mine several months ago, at multiple times the cost of this unit. The Omron has two larger pads, while this has four smaller ones, so I can see where I would use both. They are awesome for muscle pain and lower back pain. It is like having a masseuse sitting behind you. You do need to be careful, as it is amazing how powerful it can feel, with only four AAA batteries. NEVER touch the pads with your fingers while the unit is on. It will feel like you stuck your finger in an electrical socket. Turn the power down, and then slowly raise it until you can feel it working, and it is still comfortable. Normally, you would need a Dr. prescription to buy one of these in the U.S. I bought my other ones from England. I am looking forward to this one.

Wow, I received my shipment for 2 units this afternoon. While I do live in Dallas (I can see Woot headquarters out my office window),
In the past Smart Post has usually taken a shipping route twice around the globe before delivery. Way to go this time!

Got mine today. Shipping was extra fast for Smartpost lol. I'm using it now while at work. Me Gusta!

I am so pissed right now. I get all my stuff shipped to my office, since I'm there during delivery hours far more frequently than I am at home. So FedEx in their infinite wisdom decided to deliver my package yesterday (a Saturday) at 6PM. They left it on the damn doorstep of my business! Needless to say when I woke up this morning and saw the delivery notification I hauled ass to work to see if it was still there. Nope. Gone. Stolen.

What kind of daffodil leaves a package completely exposed at a business in Northwest Portland? We have more homeless vagrants walking these streets than we do hipsters. ARRRGHHHGHH!!!!

"daffodil"? Really woot? m.o.r.o.n. that's what it's supposed to say.

what the hell?! I dailed up to 10 but only feel a little.I even changed to fresh batteries,and not much improved.Did I got a bad one?

Mine came to my place of business on Saturday too. In some ways, I wish the post office would quit delivering on Saturdays all together since I never want things to be delivered to work on Saturdays. On the other hand, I wish Woot would be more forthcoming about shipping methods so I can make a decision on where I want merchandise to be shipped. I was absolutely not expecting the post office to be involved and it can create problems when things are delivered unexpectedly (especially since the items came much faster than the estimated delivery date so I wasn't watching for it).

Achi||es wrote:I am so pissed right now. I get all my stuff shipped to my office, since I'm there during delivery hours far more frequently than I am at home. So FedEx in their infinite wisdom decided to deliver my package yesterday (a Saturday) at 6PM. They left it on the damn doorstep of my business! Needless to say when I woke up this morning and saw the delivery notification I hauled ass to work to see if it was still there. Nope. Gone. Stolen.

What kind of daffodil leaves a package completely exposed at a business in Northwest Portland? We have more homeless vagrants walking these streets than we do hipsters. ARRRGHHHGHH!!!!

"daffodil"? Really woot? m.o.r.o.n. that's what it's supposed to say.

It wasn't Fedex, it was the US post office.

laurel9727 wrote:what the hell?! I dailed up to 10 but only feel a little.I even changed to fresh batteries,and not much improved.Did I got a bad one?

Probably not. It's not nearly as bad as some people have commented. I assume because this one is more for home use, it's a lot less powerful than the ones at the chiropractor's office.

My girlfriend didn't like it all and seemed to think it was powerful. I on the otherhand, wish it could go much stronger. The ones I've used in college and at the chiro's have always been able to make me say "stop right there" but this one I can top out at 10 with no problem.

Mine just showed up today (San Diego, CA area). I haven't tried it on myself yet, partly out of cowardice and partly because I don't have any muscle pain right now, but I did hook it up to an oscilloscope and WOWZA! At the lowest intensity setting the pulses were 270 volts peak-to-peak across 100 kilohms (my best guess at skin resistance), and as I turned up the intensity they rapidly got too high to measure (>500V). Wowza!

The pulses are about 1mS long, consisting of a 500uS positive pulse immediately followed by a 500uS negative one (or vice-versa, depending on which electrode you decide is ground). I've been testing it on the "shoulder" setting, and the pulse repetition rate seems to sweep from 2 to 8 pulses per second. [This is a slight edit from my original post.]

I have no idea what the therapeutic implications of all this are, but I know it's going to take some courage for me to stick those electrodes on my tender flesh!

robin731 wrote:Mine just showed up today (San Diego, CA area). I haven't tried it on myself yet, partly out of cowardice and partly because I don't have any muscle pain right now, but I did hook it up to an oscilloscope and WOWZA! At the lowest intensity setting the pulses were 270 volts peak-to-peak across 100 kilohms (my best guess at skin resistance), and as I turned up the intensity they rapidly got too high to measure (>500V). Wowza!

The pulses are about 1mS long, consisting of a 500uS positive pulse immediately followed by a 500uS negative one (or vice-versa, depending on which electrode you decide is ground). I've been testing it on the "shoulder" setting, and the pulse repetition rate seems to cycle between 2 and 8 pulses per second.

I have no idea what the therapeutic implications of all this are, but I know it's going to take some courage for me to stick those electrodes on my tender flesh!

At max it feels like pins and needles, at min it feels like barely anything at all. Definitely nothing compared to my cattle prod. Now that thing gives a nice shock!

robin731 wrote:Mine just showed up today (San Diego, CA area). I haven't tried it on myself yet, partly out of cowardice and partly because I don't have any muscle pain right now, but I did hook it up to an oscilloscope and WOWZA! At the lowest intensity setting the pulses were 270 volts peak-to-peak across 100 kilohms (my best guess at skin resistance), and as I turned up the intensity they rapidly got too high to measure (>500V). Wowza!

The pulses are about 1mS long, consisting of a 500uS positive pulse immediately followed by a 500uS negative one (or vice-versa, depending on which electrode you decide is ground). I've been testing it on the "shoulder" setting, and the pulse repetition rate seems to sweep from 2 to 8 pulses per second. [This is a slight edit from my original post.]

I have no idea what the therapeutic implications of all this are, but I know it's going to take some courage for me to stick those electrodes on my tender flesh!

It's not bad (I can barely feel it on 1), but you might want to try it out before you need it so you know what to expect. It's not bad, though I get a lot of muscle spasms in my mid back and this thing made them worse.

laurel9727 wrote:what the hell?! I dailed up to 10 but only feel a little.I even changed to fresh batteries,and not much improved.Did I got a bad one?

Depends on where you put it. I can go to 10 on my lower back. I can't get close to 10 on my shoulders.

JirafaBo wrote:Probably not. It's not nearly as bad as some people have commented. I assume because this one is more for home use, it's a lot less powerful than the ones at the chiropractor's office.

My girlfriend didn't like it all and seemed to think it was powerful. I on the otherhand, wish it could go much stronger. The ones I've used in college and at the chiro's have always been able to make me say "stop right there" but this one I can top out at 10 with no problem.

I find the same thing. I used it on the side and sole of my foot and had it at 10 with no problem. The only time it was uncomfortable was the "beat" setting which was more like a quick stab or jolt. On the "knead" and "massage" it was pretty weak. I wonder if different pads would change that too.

psychobrew wrote:It wasn't Fedex, it was the US post office.

Not true. Mine was delivered by FedEx Home Delivery. And it actually showed up today, which means the driver procreateed up on Saturday and marked it as delivered when he actually put it back on the truck.

My wife seems to like it quite a bit so far and is comparing it quite favorably to the system they use at her chiropractor.

JirafaBo wrote:At max it feels like pins and needles, at min it feels like barely anything at all. Definitely nothing compared to my cattle prod. Now that thing gives a nice shock!

Well you're right - I worked up the nerve to try it on my shoulders tonight and it doesn't feel nearly as shocking as I had feared. Somewhere around 8 to 9 seems about right. I'm not sure how much it's helping my muscle tension, but it's pretty cool to feel my shoulders massaging themselves!

I'm confused by the seeming lack of positive (+) and negative (-) indications on the units various components. A lot of the diagrams I've seen for placement of electrodes show specific locations for positive/negative electrodes.
Also, the limited diagrams in the instruction manual provided show only the placement of two electrode pads at a time, never four, though the unit is designed for such.

Am I missing something?

A piece of junk. It stopped working after five minutes......

feels nice.. enjoying it

swingophile wrote:I'm confused by the seeming lack of positive (+) and negative (-) indications on the units various components. A lot of the diagrams I've seen for placement of electrodes show specific locations for positive/negative electrodes.
Also, the limited diagrams in the instruction manual provided show only the placement of two electrode pads at a time, never four, though the unit is designed for such.

Am I missing something?

Yes, you are. It's not DC. Did you read the other poster's experience when he put the output on a scope? It's AC. There is no positive/negative post as it will alternate.

I got mine yesterday (shipped FedEx, then transferred to USPS for delivery). I tried it out & it works just fine for my comfort. I really enjoyed the massage setting on my shoulders. A setting between 1 & 2 was plenty. My PT (& other sources) told me the setting should be comfortable (doesn't have to knock your socks off). Pain Management told me to use a TENS once or twice a day for short periods of time, so the 15 minute timer is nice. I paid much more for a TENS on Amazon, but I think this one is a good buy for the money. No prescription is required to buy them on Amazon. A Google search will locate the normal placement of electrodes for TENS, but I don't know if it would make a difference on this model.