well, alone it will make sound, Radio reception is built in.

TO be clear where it claims that you can only run 1 cord to your TV, that is NOT the case if any of your devices are not HDMI (Like a Wii). It will NOT convert the signal. It is ONLY a pass-through device for video. So if you have some HDMI and some RCA or component video, you have to run the output of the same style through.

DENON should be ashamed to sell such a POS that doesn't convert video. We're talking $5 or less in hardware to do that, and they cheaped out on this model.

If you have a Wii or any other non-hdmi device, save your money. This will be a huge PITA to use. Mine is on ebay... for less than you'll get it here!

jetboy wrote:TO be clear where it claims that you can only run 1 cord to your TV, that is NOT the case if any of your devices are not HDMI (Like a Wii). It will NOT convert the signal. It is ONLY a pass-through device for video. So if you have some HDMI and some RCA or component video, you have to run the output of the same style through.

DENON should be ashamed to sell such a POS that doesn't convert video. We're talking $5 or less in hardware to do that, and they cheaped out on this model.

If you have a Wii or any other non-hdmi device, save your money. This will be a huge PITA to use. Mine is on ebay... for less than you'll get it here!

Let me know what you find for $150 that will up-convert an analog video signal to HDMI. I am interested to see what you come up with.

"Question: why do buyers need this feature? Volume levels are audible and not visual. Never understood the purpose of this feature."

Many of the electromechanical volume knobs have either mechanical inertia or digital logic that causes them to start slowly and then accelerate, causing you to overshoot and blast the sound. A graphic overlay can allow you to stop before it overshoots.

With our old TV we used the TV volume to fine tune the level. The TV's GUI overlay prevented overshooting. Our new TV only sends constant volume level out to the receiver, so the only way to adjust is with the receiver.

The tendency to overshoot volume level is my wife's single biggest complaint, and it's so annoying that she will actually move closer to the TV rather than turn up the volume.

RhythmDoctor wrote:"Question: why do buyers need this feature? Volume levels are audible and not visual. Never understood the purpose of this feature."

Many of the electromechanical volume knobs have either mechanical inertia or digital logic that causes them to start slowly and then accelerate, causing you to overshoot and blast the sound. A graphic overlay can allow you to stop before it overshoots.

With our old TV we used the TV volume to fine tune the level. The TV's GUI overlay prevented overshooting. Our new TV only sends constant volume level out to the receiver, so the only way to adjust is with the receiver.

The tendency to overshoot volume level is my wife's single biggest complaint, and it's so annoying that she will actually move closer to the TV rather than turn up the volume.

If the receiver is in visual range and you can see the front display panel, the volume numbers will change on the receiver as you raise or lower it. All dependent on where the receiver's located, but could help you with the issue.

Bought one during a recent Woot-Off, just arrived yesterday. It's a lot larger than I thought it would be, so look at the dimensions first: 17x6.5x15" (ish).

I'm replacing a smaller Denon (which I love) because my AppleTV needs an Audio In digital port. While I'm at it, I might try routing all my HDMI stuff through this receiver.

Does anyone know if the remote is IR or RF?

rlswim wrote:Does anyone know if the remote is IR or RF?

IR remote.

jetboy wrote:TO be clear where it claims that you can only run 1 cord to your TV, that is NOT the case if any of your devices are not HDMI (Like a Wii). It will NOT convert the signal. It is ONLY a pass-through device for video. So if you have some HDMI and some RCA or component video, you have to run the output of the same style through.

DENON should be ashamed to sell such a POS that doesn't convert video. We're talking $5 or less in hardware to do that, and they cheaped out on this model.

If you have a Wii or any other non-hdmi device, save your money. This will be a huge PITA to use. Mine is on ebay... for less than you'll get it here!

When you find a $150 entry level receiver that does have analog to HDMI conversion you should buy it and post on Woot! This is not a Denon problem, other manufacturers do the same thing.

Yamaha RX-V371 and 471? Nope
Onkyo SR309 and NR509? Nope
Pioneer VSX-521 and 821? Nope
Denon AVR-1312 and 1612? Nope
Sony STRDH520? Nope

There is a reason AVR companies have product lines. If they put every feature you wanted on the lowest end model, you'd have no reason to spend more on the higher up models.

When buying a receiver, list the features you want and then shop accordingly.

Fail on your part for not knowing what features this receiver does or doesn't have. There's enough forums and sites out there online that will explain exactly what features are available. Do your research or ask someone who has more knowledge than you!

I am way new at surround sound. I bought the receiver offered here a couple weeks ago, and still have NO idea what speakers to buy, or how. I have a set of older 5.1 speakers, and tried those, and they just didn't work, or I couldn't get them to work. (And what a mess of wires!)

So, how do I choose a fairly inexpensive set of speakers that will wow my fam?

Can someone help me? I feel wimpy.

danieloneil01 wrote:Monster good? LOL, you have been out the game for a while. Monster is snake oil.

I believe he meant it as if to say "extremely good," not a comparison to the company Monster. He was using it as an adjective.

Bought this from woot last time around - very good receiver.

First, this receiver *does* have a graphical on-screen display (OSD) for the audio level (at least when using the remote) - it displays in .5 dbA increments (if you don't know what that means, you could say that each step is only barely perceptibly louder than the previous).

It has 4 HDMI inputs, 3 Composite AV inputs, one optical digital sound, and one composite digital sound. ALL of these can be reprogrammed and mapped to any of the 6 extra buttons on the remote - GAME (HDMI only), Sat/Cbl, BD, DVD, V. Aux, Dock.

As mentioned, it does not convert analog sources to the HDMI output. It *does* display the OSD on both analog and digital out (only one is an actual overlay, though).

Though it lacks auto-setup - it has a very fine level of control. For each speaker you can define how far away it is so you don't get weird doppler shifting on the sound. You can also make individual speakers louder or quieter. You can fix audio-video delay delay either per-input, or with a temporary setting via the remote (we have a local over the air station that broadcasts about half of their programs with about 150 milliseconds of audio delay - this fixes that!).

You can program one of the digital audio inputs to serve for TV viewing so it won't output video but plays audio from the TV while using it.

If you don't have speakers, you can program any of the digital inputs to send their audio to the TV and use its speakers instead.

Ten years ago this receiver would have had a quality analog audio path and cost about $800 on the street. It really is a great deal and nice piece of kit for $150.

I see a Roku 2 in my immediate future to handle internet / LAN streaming. Or you could get networked BD player...

I bought this unit from amazon a couple months ago from Amazon. It was defective right out of the box, but rather than return it right away, I contacted Demon to help me troubleshoot it. After two weeks of back and forth with Demon, it was suggested I take it to their repair contractor in my area. That took six weeks, and still did not correct the issue. I again contacted Demon and found that it is their policy to replace such a defective unit with what they called B Stock, code for returned or discarded units. It was explicitly stated to me that the units were not even refurbished in any way, and that they couldn't guarantee the replacement would be free of defects or cosmetic blemishes.

Luckily I was able to get amazon to accept the return even outside the normal 30 day policy, but my experience with Demon was completely unsatisfactory. This may be a perfectly fine product, but I will steer clear of Demon on the basis of this experience.

Tl;Dr: Demon replaces defective merchandise with scratch-and-ding returns as a matter of policy.

accessories4less wrote:Let me know what you find for $150 that will up-convert an analog video signal to HDMI. I am interested to see what you come up with.

Think about what you're actually paying for. You're paying $150 for 5 small amplifiers $10 each, and $10 worth of frequency filters, and maybe $10 worth of switching software, and a case to put it in.

The hardware and software to up-convert is about $10, probably less than $2 to a major manufacturer. There's no reason that every receiver built in 2012 doesn't have that capability. It's cheap engineering.

It would seem reasonable to assume it's included when WOOT says "allows you to connect all of your devices to your TV with a single HDMI cable." In fact the specs in the manual that comes with the unit nowhere mentions it. The only place to find this information is buried in Denon's website.

There's a reason why this is a new 2012 model that was originally $250, and is not $150 on woot (and not selling very well or it wouldn't be on here again at lower price). It's a cheapo receiver with limited functionality that happens to have a brand name on it.

There are plenty of receivers with similar MSRP to this one:

Sony STR DH720
Pioneer VSX 921-K AV
Samsung HW-C900

But if you love this one, buy mine. It's on ebay!

Aren't we seeing this with numbing frequency? [Yes, we are.]

jetboy wrote:

There are plenty of receivers with similar MSRP to this one:

Sony STR DH720
Pioneer VSX 921-K AV
Samsung HW-C900

Street prices I have found (who cares about MSRP) from legit resellers

Sony STR DH720 $215+
Pioneer VSX 921-K AV $250+
Samsung HW-C900 $260+

Let me know when you find a receiver that up-converts with a street price of $150 with a factory warranty from a legit dealer.

devexityspace wrote:this receiver has NO component ports (RED GREEN BLUE).. So while you can plug your PS3/Xbox 360 into the HDMI for an HD experience....

Your Nintendo Wii will sadly have to use the Standard A/V Composite and not reach that 720p HD Quality.

That was my first thought too.... But even when using component cables for video, your still just using standard composite audio inputs (red & white) with the wii and you would essentially just have to use this as a pass through for the component cables anyways. It's not like the receiver would route the signal from the component cables to the Hdmi out. So no matter what you do, your going to have to change the tv input and receiver input anyways.

If you have more than one video source that uses component cables, then I could see the lack of a single component out for multiple component inputs being a downside. But if were only talking about 1 component input, or specifically the wii, at the end of the day your just using composite cables for wii audio no matter what you do.

chicagotone wrote:"Home theaters in a box" aren't an option for good sound reproduction, the speakers are usually crap. Pair this with a cheap set of Polk monitors and u'll have an adequate surround system .

Thanks for the recommenation. Would that setup be superior to the bose cinemate system? Thats the other option im considering.

vipermjb wrote:Can someone explain to me what these do, and why I would need one?

Seems to be a few people asking this question today.

• First of all, a receiver is a device which consists of three sub-components, all of which could be purchased separately if desired. (Don't worry; you don't desire this.) Those three components are, in order of signal flow: (1) an FM tuner, (2) a preamp, and (3) multiple amplifiers, or amps.
  
• The tuner is an example of a signal source: it creates an unamplified (or low-level) signal, which is fed into the preamp, and then on to the amps.
  
• Other examples of source devices include your DVD or Blu-Ray player, your TV, your cable/satellite tuner, or the headphone jack of a computer, or of an iPod or other music player.
  
• The preamp sits between the source device and the amplifiers, where it performs signal processing duties on the low-level signal output by the source device. This includes many things, from the selection of which source device you wish to hear and view, to the sophisticated massaging of the audio signals in the digital domain, to the decoding of multi-channel theater soundtracks from Dolby or DTS-encoded discs and the steering and conversion of those soundtracks into multiple analog audio channels. One of its most important jobs is its simplest, and is embodied by the volume control on the receiver: the attenuation, or decreasing, of the volume level from the full-volume -- but still unamplified -- signal coming in from the source device.
  
• The amplifiers (one per channel; left, right, center, surround left, etc.) perform one and only one task: they boost the unamplified signal coming out of the preamp stage up to a level where it can drive a speaker.
  
• Speakers require amplified (or high-level) signal. The little plastic speakers you plug into your PC or laptop contain small amplifiers sufficient to drive the small speakers inside. However, home audio speakers do not contain their own amps. The exception to this rule is the subwoofer; consumer subs generally do contain their own amps, while receivers generally do not contain an amplifier for the subwoofer channel. So a 7.1 channel receiver will typically contain 7 amps: 6 for the front, rear, and side-fill left and right channels, and one for the center/dialog channel.
  

accessories4less wrote:You can also buy this receiver with the 51. Boston Acoustics Speakers as a package for $329 (refurb)

Denon DHT1312


For the extra $180 seems like the way to go for those needing speakers also.

Except there is no information as to which BA speakers they are, which probably means they are cheapo HTIB speakers that are not likely to satisfy one for very long.

dfreema1 wrote:Thanks for the recommenation. Would that setup be superior to the bose cinemate system? Thats the other option im considering.

Bose does so much advertising, you end up paying much more for a Bose setup than a comparable system using something like Polk speakers and this Denon receiver.

jetboy wrote:It would seem reasonable to assume it's included when WOOT says "allows you to connect all of your devices to your TV with a single HDMI cable."

Perhaps that seems reasonable to you, but not to me. When you read that, you apparently add the phrase "regardless of the individual source devices' output formats." I, however, append the phrase "if all of your individual output devices happen to support HDMI."

It's normal for people to read what they want to hear into advertising copy, and one of the basic techniques of writing that copy is to lead the consumer into doing so. Those who never learn to read ad copy skeptically instead of hopefully -- and who can't research their purchases beyond reading said ad copy -- will always be doomed to buying products which do not do what they wished.

wootifish wrote:I am way new at surround sound. I bought the receiver offered here a couple weeks ago, and still have NO idea what speakers to buy, or how. I have a set of older 5.1 speakers, and tried those, and they just didn't work, or I couldn't get them to work. (And what a mess of wires!)

So, how do I choose a fairly inexpensive set of speakers that will wow my fam?

Can someone help me? I feel wimpy.

That's weird.. even with some old speakers, as long as they're capable of producing sound, it should still work. The receiver is not going to be intelligent enough to say, "These speakers are incompatible, or too old, or too cheap, so I'm not going to work." If the speakers aren't awesome, obviously even with an awesome receiver, they won't sound good. But you still should be hearing something! So maybe you didn't put the wires in the right place, or you should hook the speakers up to something else.

If you got some speakers that came with an all-in-one system (speakers, sub, little receiver together), I wouldn't recommend using them. The sound quality's just not there. Go to Best Buy or Amazon and browse through the home theater section > speaker systems. $400 or $500 Polk or Klipsch set will sound great with this.

This is a great deal by the way. 7.1? Kinda unnecessary. I got it on mine, but don't use it.

Check out this simple 5.0 system. You really will need to add a sub to it but combining these two deals for approx. $270 for major name equip is a great start. An acceptable sub can be had for around $100 or maybe cheaper on an auction site.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=82-269-027&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=2

dcheesi wrote:I looked at this one the last time it came up (for $10 more IIRC), but after talking to people on various forums I was convinced to step up to the 1612 instead. It has the same amplifier section, but adds a better digital/pre-pro section (DSP, DACs, etc.). The real killer app for the 1612 is the automatic setup w/ Audyssey MultiEQ; not only is setup easier, but the sound quality is just amazing with a precisely calibrated audio system (especially for movies).

Check out the deals for the 1612 right now, some places have had it on sale recently.

Also for what it's worth the 1612 has much better speaker connections in the back (necessary if you've added banana plugs to your wires, or it's 14 gauge wire for more than your front two)

ikickedagirl wrote:That's weird.. even with some old speakers, as long as they're capable of producing sound, it should still work. The receiver is not going to be intelligent enough to say, "These speakers are incompatible, or too old, or too cheap, so I'm not going to work." If the speakers aren't awesome, obviously even with an awesome receiver, they won't sound good. But you still should be hearing something! So maybe you didn't put the wires in the right place, or you should hook the speakers up to something else.

If you got some speakers that came with an all-in-one system (speakers, sub, little receiver together), I wouldn't recommend using them. The sound quality's just not there. Go to Best Buy or Amazon and browse through the home theater section > speaker systems. $400 or $500 Polk or Klipsch set will sound great with this.

This is a great deal by the way. 7.1? Kinda unnecessary. I got it on mine, but don't use it.

Here I'm thinking that the phrase "they didn't work" should be read as "I couldn't figure out how to make them work." A lot of those HTIB (or subwoofer-centralized speakers-only setups) use RCA or polarized molex-like connectors for the speakers; in order to connect them to a receiver, you'd have to cut off the connectors and strip the wires.

don't see an input for a turntable!

This is a great deal by the way. 7.1? Kinda unnecessary. I got it on mine, but don't use it.[/quote]

Really i love my 7.1 (actually 7.2), though most non blue-ray home theatre compressions (ie anything not Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master) won't truely take full advatange of the 7.1 as they were designed with 5.1 setups in mind.

Thanks for the summary about receivers, JoeCool1701. One question I've had for months. I have a Panasonic plasma TV that only outputs digital audio (Dolby of some sort). I cannot change the output to something else. I am very hard-of-hearing, so normally with my older TVs, I've connected their analog audio out outputs to a Sennheiser wireless headphone set. It has saved my marriage and lets me hear and understand the audio from the television even if I am moving around, in another room.

I know that there are digital-to-analog converters like the Gefen at Amazon that can convert my plasma's digital audio out to analog. These cost $85! I wonder if I can buy any receiver that has HDMI and a phone jack, and thereby solve my problem. I wonder if the receiver will take the digital audio from the HDMI output of my plasma and convert it to analog audio coming frome the headphone jack of this unit, so that I can hook up my oldish Sennheiser wireless headphones. For only $65 more, I'd have what the Gefen does for me, only a more versatile receiver, right?

dfreema1 wrote:Thanks for the recommenation. Would that setup be superior to the bose cinemate system? Thats the other option im considering.

Saw a bumper sticker once that read "Bose: the white zin of speakers". Pretty much says everything about how the audio world feels about Bose.
People buy Bose because they can be "prettier" and it doesn't detract from room decor, but sound is somewhere between not bad to just okay even at the more expensive price points.

dfreema1 wrote:Im looking to get surround sound, but i notice most speaker systems inculde the whole package (speakers and receiver). Whats the advantage of buying things seperately? It seems like its hard to find speakers without a receiver.

There are a lot of Just speaker packages. Newegg is having a sale (half off) on Klipsch's HD500 which has pretty decent reviews.
I'd go so far and say that if I didn't already have a system in place I'd buy this receiver (unless I could find a decent price on the 1612) and that speaker package and be feeling confident I'd have a pretty awesome home theater experience.

Wii is only 480p. Component only seperates colors better...

lesleydf wrote:i know this is a foal question, but...does the hdmi passthrough the audio, too?

yes it does

dfreema1 wrote:Thanks for the recommenation. Would that setup be superior to the bose cinemate system? Thats the other option im considering.

zaqnewman wrote:Saw a bumper sticker once that read "Bose: the white zin of speakers". Pretty much says everything about how the audio world feels about Bose.
People buy Bose because they can be "prettier" and it doesn't detract from room decor, but sound is somewhere between not bad to just okay even at the more expensive price points.

Yes, Bose is second only to Monster Cable in terms of the passionate fury that they inspire for selling complete crap (in the case of Bose) or pedestrian, standard-quality product (in the case of Monster) for huge markups behind a marketing campaign that touts it as high-quality.

When considering Bose, keep this in mind: They are the ones who introduced the world to the concept of cheap, plastic, lo-fi home theater systems consisting of crap mini-satellites that reproduce only high frequencies and a "subwoofer" that reproduces only mid-range (not bass or sub-bass) frequencies. All of those other crap HTIB systems copied themselves from Bose's original 5.1 system.

Bose's success with these tinny little plastic crapboxes reminds me of something an audio engineer told me once. He said that he could spend hours setting up the sound for a show; he could use mics and banks of third-channel EQs to get the sound as flat as possible in as many parts of the hall as possible, or he could just spend two seconds to jack up the house board at 500 and 12k Hz, and get the same amount of satisfaction from the audience. You can bet that the sweet spot of every Bose HT speaker system's "subwoofer" is right at 500 Hz, and that the satellites shine at 12k.

Forgive my stupidity but I take your statement below to mean I can hook up my tape player to this and I can listen to my tapes. Thanks for your help.

"Any device that has a headphone jack or other audio output can be connected to this device if you buy the proper cable."

Kathy

HERE"S A BETTER DEAL
Open-Box Pioneer 625W 5.1 3D Home Theater Receiver for $140 + free shipping
newegg offers the open-box Pioneer 625-watt 5.1-Channel 3D Home Theater Receiver, model no. VSX-821-K, for $139.99 with free shipping. That's $30 under our mention of a factory-sealed unit from two days ago, since expired, and the lowest total price we've seen for this receiver. (It's also $57 below the best deal we could find for a new unit elsewhere.) Features include 125 watts per channel into five channels, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital, Dolby Pro-Logic IIz, and DTS-HD Master Audio codecs, four HDMI 1.4 inputs, one HDMI 1.4 output, iPad / iPhone / iPod compatibility (with included adapter), MCACC room calibration (with included microphone), USB, and more.

Does it have a cable input source?

I'm going to chime in here on speakers. I researched for about a month prior to upgrading my 5.1 system. I ended up buying a JAMO 5.1 set with two tower fronts (I already had a sub I really liked). They were bought by Klipsch in 2008. I couldn't be happier. I just thought I'd throw that out there since I hadn't heard of them prior to researching.

syninthecity wrote:also, blast you woot. You've almost convinced me. I know i need one. you know i need one. i just don't want to spend 3 or 4 hundred dollars putting together a sound system. I know thats cheap. and i know this is perfect, but you won't get me....

Must. Not. Buy.

Must....resist...


oh yeah, and before anyone asks, 5.1 = 5 speakers, one subwoofer, 7.1= 7 speakers, one sub.

http://slickdeals.net/permadeal/71744/newegg-energy-take-classic-rc-micro-5piece-speaker-set

I have this with the Boston acoustic speakers. All around it is great. Absolutely love the crispness of it and the ease of use. The surround sound is phenomenal.