The reason this is a little higher priced for the specs is because you're paying for the power savings.

If you spend most of your time on the PC just downloading stuff or browsing the web. Then this may be worth it to have as your main computer. Then have your higher spec computer as the backup for when you want to play newer games or something.

I've actually been looking into a mini ITX computer for this purpose.

radi0j0hn wrote:Anybody know how much money on power is saved with a 65 watt system vs whatever is standard? Assume you leave it on 50% of the time as you DL stuff, stream, etc.

Tons. A "normal" computer would have a 300-500 watt power supply. But this number is generally the maximum watt draw. More typically, a system like this probably draws around 30 watts, while a normal full-size system would come closer to 120 watts. I'd say a factor of four savings is likely.

FYI - I'm getting these numbers from a lifetime of experience dealing with computers and having put all of my systems on watt meters at various times.

Brand new at Fry's Electronics for $10 more.

http://www.frys.com/onlineads/0001701007?vid=uLop9990xA?plu=6937507

Still a pass....

quantamm wrote:Tons. A "normal" computer would have a 300-500 watt power supply. But this number is generally the maximum watt draw. More typically, a system like this probably draws around 30 watts, while a normal full-size system would come closer to 120 watts. I'd say a factor of four savings is likely.

FYI - I'm getting these numbers from a lifetime of experience dealing with computers and having put all of my systems on watt meters at various times.

The energy savings could offset the monthly car payments for the Prius owners as well! Maybe one could save by not paying for internet and just connect through an open wifi connection. Just think, no wattage consumed by a router or modem! That would really save even more energy! Toss that energy sucking laser printer and just drive to the closest office supply store and have them print for you. GO GREEN!

This is... strange. There's nothing wrong with a mini-ITX computer in itself, of course. But the main advantage it has -- small size -- is kinda pointless when you put it in a big honkin' tower case.

grimskull89 wrote:Here is link from HP's website describing the product specifications, breaking down the specifications of each component.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c03052631&tmp_track_link=ot_faqs/top_issues/en_us/c03052631/loc:4&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5156885#N131

Probably the only good thing about this is that the hard drive has a rotational speed of 7200 RPM, which is nice because usually manufactured computers come with a slower 5400 RPM hard drive.

If that is the best that can be said about this box,then it is pretty sad indeed

quantamm wrote:Tons. A "normal" computer would have a 300-500 watt power supply. But this number is generally the maximum watt draw. More typically, a system like this probably draws around 30 watts, while a normal full-size system would come closer to 120 watts. I'd say a factor of four savings is likely.

FYI - I'm getting these numbers from a lifetime of experience dealing with computers and having put all of my systems on watt meters at various times.

This one may even be less than 30W typical running. On an wooted emachine I have (http://www.woot.com/blog/viewentry.aspx?id=12786) I'm running Prime95 on it and with it maxed out I'm showing 50W on the watt meter. Idling is 36W. It's no speedball, but it gets the job done. The power supply is rated 299W. My AMD 250u is 25W TDP. The Fusion e-450 is 18W TDP and it has the video section to run as well.

The biggest factor is probably the efficiency of the power brick.

oldlostsoul wrote:THIS THING IS BRILLIANT!!!!

It looks as though the HP technology integration people finally came up with a working solution to their overheating laptops.

That's not unnecessary empty space inside that oversized case... it's mandatory cooling space. And without a fan, probably just enough space to eek it past that pesky 90-day warranty period.

Look at the backside photo...it shows a fan.

Thanks for the informative post-you dug out the facts to help others make an informed decision, which for me is a pass.

radi0j0hn wrote:Look at the backside photo...it shows a fan.

Yup, you're right! Didn't see it assuming a power supply fan would have been the cooler.

Wowsers....I have never seen a puter in all my life that I could find so much "no need" for.

I know, Woot had all these parts in their distribution center and put 'em together for laughs. Not funny Woot.

Geez, I still use the "portable" computer my Dad built for me in a cardboard box (like 2004), 1.4Ghz Tualatin, ABIT BH6, 120 mm fan, 7200rpm hd, real power supply, real keyboard, real trackball, real cd burner, all AGP/PCI slots filled, full of SDRAM.

Reason: I just happened to walk by his "breadboard" system that he used to troubleshoot with, and said, "Dad, could you build me one of them things in a cardboard box, bout 6" tall, but, 1" in the keyboard area, that I could take back to TX with me?"

I was kiddin'. Walked in 2 days later and it was waiting for me. At least it had a purpose.

7 watts for wireless? USB devices run at 5 volts, at 500mA maximum. That means 2.5 watts max.
Some mini PCs run on as little as 15-20 watts. Processors are being designed for battery powered devices, so are more efficient

www.overstock.com/Electronics/Dell-OptiPlex-745-Core-2-Duo-1.86GHz-2048MB-160GB-COMBO-Windows-7-Professional-SFF-Computer-Refurbished/6382252/product.html?cj=true&AID=10654383&PID=3668349

pretty much the same machine with 1 year warranty

Could I add an internal floppy drive to this ;-)

anyone who buys this is out of their mind

Not even ThunderThighs can wax a positive spin on this one.

valek86 wrote:www.overstock.com/Electronics/Dell-OptiPlex-745-Core-2-Duo-1.86GHz-2048MB-160GB-COMBO-Windows-7-Professional-SFF-Computer-Refurbished/6382252/product.html?cj=true&AID=10654383&PID=3668349
pretty much the same machine with 1 year warranty

Totally different machine, different league all together. Like comparing a Honda Fit 1/4 mile times to a space shuttle launch.

I posted this very computer in Deals Woot a little over an hour ago. At $199 +$2.95 shipping it is a very good deal and is a 1000x more computer than this. Truly a no-brainer.

Kind of a frankenstein sort of a machine. Weird - never seen one like it.

Might make a decent backup machine, or something for the kid.

KRiderZero wrote:They seriously wasted that big of a case on a motherboard with a form factor that small?

I was thinking the same thing.

I say Woot, close this mess and sell the case for $19. Save the parts (all 5 of them) for the next Wootoff and put them in the bags of crap.

StanleyS wrote:Could I add an internal floppy drive to this ;-)

Heck, with so much room you could put a 5.25" or even an 8" floppy drive in there!

I'm seriously considering buying this. Ditch the case, mount it in a cigar box or similar, add cigarette lighter plug, add cheap SSD, put the 500G SATA in a RAID array on another machine. attach a 10" touch screen and you have a Win 7 tablet. Or mount a 12V AGM in all that space in the case, LCD on the side of the case, and you have a battery powered semi-portable desktop. Solar panel on the side of the case.... So many ideas....

Ringo4422 wrote:Yup, you're right! Didn't see it assuming a power supply fan would have been the cooler.

I now see it too... in the side picture.

My, that's an awfully big fan. You'd think that HP was worried about that little board overheating inside that big box.

Too bad they didn't take that much care cooling their laptops.

I guess they just couldn't figure how to cram that large of a fan in a laptop case. ;)

Does it come with the gravity-defying mouse as pictured?

egowhip69 wrote:Ack, 65 watt PSU? On a desktop??? That means NO add in cards...

Actually I think the complete absence of expansion slots rules them out anyway, don't you?

oldlostsoul wrote:I now see it too... in the side picture.

My, that's an awfully big fan. You'd think that HP was worried about that little board overheating inside that big box.

Too bad they didn't take that much care cooling their laptops.

I guess they just couldn't figure how to cram that large of a fan in a laptop case. ;)

The fan could possibly consume the same amount of power the computer itself uses. For this price this should have included a solar panel and some 2000 mAh Li-ion cell phone batteries to power it for free.

There is a LOT of hate going on in this thread, and I don't think it's justified.

Sure this computer can't handle ripping BluRay movies, or playing Metro 2033 on max settings, but search youtube for "E-450 gaming" and you may be surprised. It runs Modern Warfare 3 at good framerates at 1024x768, and Skyrim at medium settings. Not that I'm expecting people who buy this to play brand new games, but anyone who intends to do that with a sub-$300 computer is fairly deluded anyway.

The E-450 will be absolutely fine for day-to-day tasks. My Dad uses a laptop with the C-60 processor in it (2 steps down from this one) for his job as a web development project manager, and it works fine for him. To be fair, he never would have picked that laptop, but he has learned to use it.

This computer would never fit MY needs, but that doesn't mean it is an utterly useless machine. I can think of literally a dozen people who would have no complaints using this machine on a regular basis.

Kikuichimoji wrote:There is a LOT of hate going on in this thread, and I don't think it's justified.

Sure this computer can't handle ripping BluRay movies, or playing Metro 2033 on max settings, but search youtube for "E-450 gaming" and you may be surprised. It runs Modern Warfare 3 at good framerates at 1024x768, and Skyrim at medium settings. Not that I'm expecting people who buy this to play brand new games, but anyone who intends to do that with a sub-$300 computer is fairly deluded anyway.

The E-450 will be absolutely fine for day-to-day tasks. My Dad uses a laptop with the C-60 processor in it (2 steps down from this one) for his job as a web development project manager, and it works fine for him. To be fair, he never would have picked that laptop, but he has learned to use it.

This computer would never fit MY needs, but that doesn't mean it is an utterly useless machine. I can think of literally a dozen people who would have no complaints using this machine on a regular basis.

Sure! Pay $42,000 for a Honda Civic. It is slow but adequate. Nothing fancy but gets the job done and it will fit most people's needs. But at that price?

Ringo4422 wrote:Totally different machine, different league all together. Like comparing a Honda Fit 1/4 mile times to a space shuttle launch.

I posted this very computer in Deals Woot a little over an hour ago. At $199 +$2.95 shipping it is a very good deal and is a 1000x more computer than this. Truly a no-brainer.

That is absolutely NOT 1000x the computer. If you're completely disregarding how completely the Radeon 6320 Demolishes the Intel GMA 3000 in gaming/graphics performance, the passmark CPU score for a 1.86GHz C2D processor is 851, while the E-450 is 744. 1000x better? Barely 15% better.

Not to mention this computer has 1GB more RAM, over 3x the HDD capacity, WAY better graphics capabilities, and uses (based on power supply) 4 TIMES less power.

The Overstock computer is not 1000x better, and for 99% of all uses, is not better at all.

SO MUCH HATE HERE!

Ringo4422 wrote:Sure! Pay $42,000 for a Honda Civic. It is slow but adequate. Nothing fancy but gets the job done and it will fit most people's needs. But at that price?

I'm not saying it's a fantastic deal, but it's not a horrific price by any stretch of the imagination.

It's a decent combination of parts. Sure there are cheaper computers with faster processors, but they also have less RAM, less HDD, and crappier integrated graphics.

If you can find me a computer with better (or actually comparable) specs all around for cheaper, I'll eat a slice of humble pie with a side of crow.

Kikuichimoji wrote:There is a LOT of hate going on in this thread, and I don't think it's justified.

Sure this computer can't handle ripping BluRay movies, or playing Metro 2033 on max settings, but search youtube for "E-450 gaming" and you may be surprised. It runs Modern Warfare 3 at good framerates at 1024x768, and Skyrim at medium settings. Not that I'm expecting people who buy this to play brand new games, but anyone who intends to do that with a sub-$300 computer is fairly deluded anyway.

The E-450 will be absolutely fine for day-to-day tasks. My Dad uses a laptop with the C-60 processor in it (2 steps down from this one) for his job as a web development project manager, and it works fine for him. To be fair, he never would have picked that laptop, but he has learned to use it.

This computer would never fit MY needs, but that doesn't mean it is an utterly useless machine. I can think of literally a dozen people who would have no complaints using this machine on a regular basis.

Forget the hate stuff, it's simply not a good buy! You can get an E-350 MSI MB at Fry's for $64today and roll your own with a single PCI slot. I have a media center made with that board and it's fine for that very specific purpose. For those thinking this is a full blown desktop system they will be sorely disappointed.

Kikuichimoji wrote:

The Overstock computer is not 1000x better, and for 99% of all uses, is not better at all.

SO MUCH HATE HERE!

You didn't mention all the components are 3+ years old. And I guarantee it's off lease so it got beat on at least 8 hours a day, or like mine, were on the factory floor where it was 24x5 + overtime.

You can buy a ex-rental 100k mile 2009 Accord for less than a 2012 Civic? bububububu the Accord is 1000x better.

jjessop wrote:Forget the hate stuff, it's simply not a good buy! You can get an E-350 MSI MB at Fry's for $64today and roll your own with a single PCI slot. I have a media center made with that board and it's fine for that very specific purpose. For those thinking this is a full blown desktop system they will be sorely disappointed.

280-64 = $216
Bring me a power supply, Win 7 HP, 3G RAM, 500G HD, and DVD/RW for $216

jjessop wrote:Forget the hate stuff, it's simply not a good buy! You can get an E-350 MSI MB at Fry's for $64today and roll your own with a single PCI slot. I have a media center made with that board and it's fine for that very specific purpose. For those thinking this is a full blown desktop system they will be sorely disappointed.

I don't think it's that bad. Building a computer in general is always cheaper, but you absolutely could not build this PC for cheaper than this price, if you had to buy all your own pieces (including the OS). Case, PSU, RAM, HDD, Motherboard, Keyboard+Mouse, OS, DVD drive. It adds up quick.

Even if you could do it for cheaper, it wouldn't be much cheaper, and let's face it, if you have the know-how to source all of those parts for cheap and build a PC yourself, why would you ever be looking at pre-built computers?

This PC would be absolutely fine for all day-to-day tasks. Email, internet, MS Office functionality, Youtube clips, even Netflix (probably not HD though).

Doesnt anyone have anything good to say about this computer ? I think it looks good and it probably work for me.

rayjunior1943 wrote:Doesnt anyone have anything good to say about this computer ? I think it looks good and it probably work for me.

Yes. There are plenty of power users in here with bad things to say, but I think this is a good computer for the price.

It will work perfectly for everything other than video editing and hardcore gaming. You're always taking a gamble with refurbished, but if you want a computer under $300, I think this is a good deal. You certainly couldn't build a comparable PC for cheaper.

rayjunior1943 wrote:Doesnt anyone have anything good to say about this computer ? I think it looks good and it probably work for me.

Only reason I haven't pulled the trigger is the want/need side of the equation for me. I'm a sysadmin that sees this stuff all day. I own probably 6 desktops, 2 servers, 2 netbooks, a laptop, plus a couple android tablets. The case is way larger than it needs to be, but it is a very efficient package. If you want to tear it open and add graphics cards to play the latest games, this computer is not for you.

If you want to websurf, play older, less graphics intensive games, and run office applications, this will do what you need it to.

If you want to experiment with mobile 12V desktop solutions, there are parts to be harvested. One 12V connection to the MB is providing the 12,5,and 3.3V power to the rest of the components. This is where I would go If I decided to pick one up.

Would this computer be good enough to play starcraft2 on higher settings if I replaced the graphics card with a something like a GeForce 9800GT OC?

Hoser768 wrote:280-64 = $216
Bring me a power supply, Win 7 HP, 3G RAM, 500G HD, and DVD/RW for $216

And a case! otherwise it will gather so much dust...