BKANE wrote:I don't really need this for TV, but could this be used to feed a security camera signal?

I can get the camera feed to an RF modulator that outputs CH 3 to coax. Then, just connect the coax to this unit and essentially have a Channel 3 camera feed?

I have multiple networked PCs in the house, and could just keep a window going 24/7 that I could maximize when I wanted to watch?

With dual tuners, I could have 2 cameras? (dependent on finding another RF modulator that had output other than CH 3?)

BK

Unless your modulator is outputing atsc VHF/UHF or a digital QAM signal like 3.1 this will not work for your needs.

One of the great things I've found about OTA tuners is many cities have low power stations or even sub channels of the big stations that aren't carried on cable. I don't think any of these are HiDef, and are primarily just old TV shows that really don't need to be in HiDef, crummy movies, religious shows, home shopping, etc. But, you might find some gems out there. Right now, I'm enjoying Route 66, Jack Benny, Highway Patrol, and Burns & Allen.

I would like to use this in my camper.

Does anyone know the volt/amp=watts for this thing.

If it uses 12 to 14 volts dc, I can hard wire it and avoid the 10 to 20% added load of an inverter.

If it requires too many watts it will run the battery down too fast.

So what volt/amp/watts?

I didn't know there were still OTA analog channels but my cable provider does still have some basic cable channels in both analog and digital.

Unfortunately, my cable provider encrypts all basic cable digital channels. I still have an analog tuner card in my PC so I can still record SD quality basic cable programs until my cable provider decides to go fully digital and drop the old analog channels.

I believe that the US cable providers are required to broadcast local OTA channels in clear QAM. However the cable companies are lobbying the government to allow them to encrypt ALL channels.

But surely we can trust our government to protect our best interests...

aluckyguy wrote:No, you are incorrect. If your software supports it you can record every program being broadcast on a single frequency. The software can do the PID filtering instead of the tuner and split the programs into multiple file streams. NextPVR/GBPVR supports (www.nextpvr.com) this, and other software does too. I frequently use this feature to record more than 2 programs at a time with my HDHomeRun.

Here's a link that mentions NextPVR's multi-record feature: http://www.nextpvr.com/features/#n2

Hey, I'm open to learning stuff which is why I posted and asked the questions I did.

As I understand it, the HDHomeRun has two tuners. Each tuner creates a unique MPEG2 stream for each channel (not frequency). I followed your link and then did an Internet search for "transport stream based recording hdhomerun." The results sent me to
http://www.silicondust.com/images/hdhomerun/comparison_guide.pdf

and

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-1222481.html where no one jumped at the chance to say it is possible to get more than one transport stream per channel, or two per tuner.

I need to do a lot more research about this. I would be thrilled if I could tune / record / watch 12 programs simultaneously with my HDHR. For people about to purchase, assume only two for now. Thank you for planting the seed in my mind.

Any app support for iPad 2? I found HDHomeRun by Elgato but that seems to work only with the Prime model and is reviewed pretty negatively as well. Once it's been recorded, I have ways to watch it but I'm interested in watching the TV live.

rgoff31 wrote:What software are people running with this?

I used to run the Snapstream BeyondTV with my old analog setup years ago.

I'm using BeyondTV with this. Works great.

I've got two of these, one I paid $100+ for new, the other $65 refurbished, this is a good price.

I use WMC7 and have done away with cable. I use these for ClearQAM signals and get HD local channels plus a few others that aren't encrypted yet, Discovery, TBS and WGN.

One thing to note, WMC7 only supports up to 4 tuners, so if you go beyond that (like with 3 HDHomerun Duals)you need to use something like Tuner Salad (http://www.hack7mc.com/2010/08/increasing-tuner-limit-in-media-center-with-tunersalad.html) to increase the limit in WMC7.

I haven't used XBMC, MythTV, OpenElec, etc. because I am more than happy with WMC7 and it is wife/grandparents friendly. But those other operating systems do allow you to do some sweet things and consume less resources doing them. This could open the door to some fun tinkering as it has for me.

The HDHomerun Duals also seem to work a bit better with wired connections than wifi from what I've read, but I haven't had any problems using them with wifi. That said, 95% of the time it is being used by just my HTPC which is wired.

Use this with Windows Media Center. Once you setup Media Center and tuner on your desktop, you can setup your Xbox 360 as a media center extender that lets you watch live TV/recorded TV.

We have a over-the-air antenna on our roof for good HD signal. There is a model of this that lets you plug in a cable card, if that strikes your fancy.

sigh wrote:Hey, I'm open to learning stuff which is why I posted and asked the questions I did.

As I understand it, the HDHomeRun has two tuners. Each tuner creates a unique MPEG2 stream for each channel (not frequency). I followed your link and then did an Internet search for "transport stream based recording hdhomerun." The results sent me to
http://www.silicondust.com/images/hdhomerun/comparison_guide.pdf

and

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-1222481.html where no one jumped at the chance to say it is possible to get more than one transport stream per channel, or two per tuner.

I need to do a lot more research about this. I would be thrilled if I could tune / record / watch 12 programs simultaneously with my HDHR. For people about to purchase, assume only two for now. Thank you for planting the seed in my mind.

Buy 6 of these and you'll have 12 tuners to do what you need, assuming you use something like Snapstream BeyondTV. They state that there is no limit on the number of tuners that can be used simultaneously. I've got 4 tuners going concurrently.

sigh wrote:I bought an earlier version several years ago and have been messing with it off-and-on since then.

Question: If you are happy with the HDHomeRun you have, what software are you using: XBMC, Windows Media Center (best results with Windows7, I think), SageTV, MythTV, or what? What program works for you?

If you buy one of these, you will have hours of entertainment, not from watching TV but in learning the technology to use it.

This works great if you want to watch TV on a PC. If you want to use it as an option to a cable tuner/VCR then you are going to spend money for a server (old dual core PC works fine), Windows7 license if you want to use Media Center, learning Linux scripts and config files if you want to use the free OS.

I just spent another $75 for a low-end video card and sound card so I could have sound over an HDMI output from my old PC without a jerky picture. MythTV just broke my system when they went from 0.24 to 0.25, but fixed some other problems as well.

So, how much effort are you willing to commit to making this work? And for those of you who are using this instead of a cable box / DVR, what computers / software / programs are you using to make it work for you?

Thanks much!

I'm using 2 of these devices with a core i5 HTPC running Win 7 and Snapstream BeyondTV with a roof antenna. I've had this setup for years and it works great.

After you get one of these, hop over to CableCutterGuys.Com and learn how to use it!

keithredding wrote:After you get one of these, hop over to CableCutterGuys.Com and learn how to use it!

So there is no way to play what you have recorded on your PC on your TV without an x-box? Will Rouku work?

sachsab wrote:heads up - CLEAR QAM is going away in NA. Comcast for sure, other likely to follow. This box will only be useful for OTA (Antenna) so make sure you can receive the channels.

Do you have a link that states this. This is the first I've heard of that.

I just don't understand the appeal of such an item. Why would ANYONE want to watch a tv broadcast on a computer instead of a large screen TV? Doesn't make any sense. Is this for rebel scums? Or perhaps it is for people who do not own TVs?

sigh wrote:
I need to do a lot more research about this. I would be thrilled if I could tune / record / watch 12 programs simultaneously with my HDHR. For people about to purchase, assume only two for now. Thank you for planting the seed in my mind.

In order to record 2 or more channels at once on a single tuner, they need to be multiplexed on the same analog carrier signal. This is common in clear QAM (nearly all the SD versions of the locals are on the same analog carrier here where I live). For OTA, it is uncommon for more than one interesting channel to be multiplexed on the same analog signal (unless you like old movies or music videos).

Your PVR software also has to be smart enough to record more than one channel per tuner. Most software can record just one "channel" per tuner, but MythTV can record as many as are there. On the technical side, an MPEG2-TS broadcast consists of a number of "programs" that have "ids" or "PIDs". It takes at least 2 PIDs for a "channel" (one audio, one video). When you record NBC-HD, your software might tell the HDHR "Send me channel 12, programs 34,37,38", which works out to the 1080i video program for NBC, the english DD5.1 audio program, and the spanish stereo audio track.


All that a PVR program has to do to record more than one channel is to include more than one channels' worth of PIDs in the tuning request *AND* be talking to a device which allows a large number of PIDs to be filtered (which the HDHR does). AFAIK, MythTV is the only common PVR software that can do this.

Drew

For those who have one; what's the scoop on viewing and recording closed captions off this thing (OTA only)?

kozynferg wrote:I would like to use this in my camper.

Does anyone know the volt/amp=watts for this thing.

If it uses 12 to 14 volts dc, I can hard wire it and avoid the 10 to 20% added load of an inverter.

If it requires too many watts it will run the battery down too fast.

So what volt/amp/watts?

I have one and the wall wart outputs 1 amp at 5 volts so its power draw is pretty low even assuming quite a bit of inefficiency on both the wall wart and the inverter I wouldn't expect more then 10 watts or of draw on your 12 volt battery. Another option would be a direct dc to dc conversion most cell phones charge at 5 volts so i'd look at any old car chargers for old cell phones you may have. Failing that look at car usb charges aimed at devices like the ipad any thing rated for more then an amp of draw will do but either way you not drawing a lot of power if your running your computer off the same battery you probably won't even notice the reduction in run time.

sigh wrote:I need to do a lot more research about this. I would be thrilled if I could tune / record / watch 12 programs simultaneously with my HDHR. For people about to purchase, assume only two for now. Thank you for planting the seed in my mind.

This post talks a little more about the feature in NextPVR/GBPVr: http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?43105-2-HDHomeruns-4-tuners I use my original HDHomeRun to record my cable ClearQAM stations all the time and my provider bundles up to 13! SD channels on one frequency. (Originally I said 6 but I just checked and see my provider - Insight - is doing more on one channel than I remembered.) A full HD broadcast can take up to 19Mbps of bandwidth (though often less when the cable co compresses it) and since a single frequency can only handle 38Mbps, you may only get 2 full HD programs sharing a channel, if that. In my area HD NBC and CBS are on the same channel but the other HD channels are coupled with other SD channels. Also, I've only used the multi-record feature with ClearQAM because I have cable, but I'm fairly certain it works with ATSC broadcasts too. The difference is with ATSC broadcasting, you're only likely to find a single broadcaster's stations sharing a frequency. In my area the 4 major networks each have special weather sub-channels, and the PBS station has multiple sub-channels all on the same frequency too.

Like I mentioned before, use the LineUp utility on SiliconDust's website to see what is available in your local area.

azdesertgal wrote:I just don't understand the appeal of such an item. Why would ANYONE want to watch a tv broadcast on a computer instead of a large screen TV? Doesn't make any sense. Is this for rebel scums? Or perhaps it is for people who do not own TVs?

Why does my message say "rebel scums" when that is not what I typed. Why are my words being changed and by whom and how is this happening?

blindandcynical wrote:So there is no way to play what you have recorded on your PC on your TV without an x-box? Will Rouku work?

My PC has an HDMI port so it can connect to the TV. I also have a couple of network media streamers (WDTV Lives) from which I can play files from my network storage. I don't think any of the Roku models do network media streaming out of the box. However, I think there is some software that installed on a PC will make it appear to be a website that a Roku can stream from but I don't have details on how that works.

azdesertgal wrote:I just don't understand the appeal of such an item. Why would ANYONE want to watch a tv broadcast on a computer instead of a large screen TV?

I wouldn't, which is why I have my media PC hooked up to my large screen TV. It's very easy to control it all with a normal remote too. However my daughter in college uses her laptop for watching TV too. In a small dorm it's not bad at all.

azdesertgal wrote:I just don't understand the appeal of such an item. Why would ANYONE want to watch a tv broadcast on a computer instead of a large screen TV? Doesn't make any sense. Is this for rebel scums? Or perhaps it is for people who do not own TVs?

I have my PC connected to my TV.

Got the old blue single tuner version off Woot a
couple of years ago, it is great!

I use it on a Mac with EyeTV software, and love it.
Getting this one, so I can record one thing and watch another simultaneously.

charwoman wrote:For those who have one; what's the scoop on viewing and recording closed captions off this thing (OTA only)?

Works fine.

ntle wrote:wayneadam:

You might want to look into DD WRT firmware for your 3700 router. I got one running on mine, runs great!

Thanks GCC, mickiem & ntle. I will look into solving my network woes. I foresee a long night ahead to solve it. Im pretty smart and intuitive, but I just dont understand network issues at all.

I am in for one of these though, because it would be nice to not have to rely on a monthly fee like Hulu to solve my TV issue. I cut cable so I could avoid monthy fees.

How cpu-intensive is using Win7 as a DVR to record HD programs with this & later serve to a media extender?

I don't plan to watch recorded programs directly on the computer, just record using Win7 and then watch the shows on my TV via Xbox 360. Will I need a really powerful computer?

macraig wrote: Even a gigabit home network can be completely saturated by disk activity from a single high performance NAS. Got a VOIP ATA plugged into your router? There's some other traffic that will be demanding priority.
Consider your network usage carefully before you click that i want one! button.

Either segment your network using a vlan or switch and you should have no problems. :-) Not to make it overly complicated enable Qos on your router if it is a newer router and most of your VoIP problems are mostly over.

Adding this to my current setup, anyone who has theirs setup reccomend a good way to split the singal?

frank3r wrote:Adding this to my current setup, anyone who has theirs setup reccomend a good way to split the singal?

From Page 4 of 16 in the Installation Guide at the web link below:

Antenna -> Amplifier -> Splitter -> TVs/Devices

OR

Digital Cable users:

Typical cable TV configuration:

Street -> 2-way Splitter -> 2/4-way Splitter -> TVs/Devices

SiliconDust HDHomeRun Instructions Documentation including Quick Start Guide, Windows Media Center, Config GUI, QuickTV, Troubleshooting, etc.

Not for FiOS.
The entire FiOS system is encrypted except for some music channels.

You need the CableCard version of the HDHomeRun (previously on Woot). The CableCards must be rented from the cable company and they are super annoying to set up. Even though they do nearly no work while at the house, they must be set up by a Verizon technician who sits in your house for 30 minutes while the CableCard programs itself.

aluckyguy wrote:This post talks a little more about the feature ...

Some clarifications:
Over-the-air ATSC carries compressed MPEG-2 at about 19 megabits per second.
Cable ATSC carries compressed MPEG-2 at a little over 38 megabits per second.

All cable head-ends recombine the signals because they fit twice the amount of data in the same channel as over-the-air ATSC does without any recompression. Most often this means 10 or 14 standard def, two high-def, or a combination of one high-def and several standard-def per channel, all without recompressing the data at all.

Most cable head-ends don't recompress the MPEG-2 stream because it gains little benefit over just passing it through and recombining it. Some will do it if it makes the recombination more efficient and the equipment expense justifies the space saved, but it's rare.

Channels that carry more than one MPEG-2 stream use hierarchical modulation to fit quite a bit more than six standard-def TV signals per channel or more than two high-def TV signals per channel. This is widely used in the satellite television industry but not so much in the cable TV industry due to the very high cost of the equipment required to do so.

Here in Washington DC we have a local public television outlet that manages to cram 10 standard def channels into two ATSC over-the-air channels. I've always wondered if they used heirarchical modulation. A good way to find out is to record each channel and see their bit rates.

The description seems to suggest that this device is of absolutely no use to those of us on DirecTV, since it does not use a DirecTV card, nor does it have an IR cable to allow control of a DirecTV receiver.
Of course, in the words of the immortal Frank-N-Furter, "I didn't design him for you", so maybe this just isn't for those of us in the satellite crowd.
Still, it would be very nice if something came along allowing for the use of a Media Center PC along with DirecTV.

This may be a stupid question, but can you use this with DirecTV if you don't have cable? Or am I not understanding how this works? Concurrently, how much would I pick up with rabbit ears & no cable signal?

I just have one question before I pull the trigger...

For now, this will just be used to stream Live TV. We have Dish and I don't want to cut the cord just yet. I do plan to buy/build a HTPC in the near-future and will then transition this to Live+DVR usage.

So, my question is - for those of you doing a lot of HTPCing/DVRing, how many tuners do you find useful?

Yes, I realize many will just say "more is better" but I'm thinking two (i.e. one of these units) will be plenty as I can always torrent shows or stream off the web, but before I order one of these I'm curious what you all think.

sdilullo wrote:So, my question is - for those of you doing a lot of HTPCing/DVRing, how many tuners do you find useful?

The most I've needed at one time is 3. Sunday evenings are my busiest OTA time.

obdigobin wrote: Concurrently, how much would I pick up with rabbit ears & no cable signal?

Depends on where you live. Websites mentioned in prior posts can help you determine this.

Here are two I like:

http://tvfool.com/

http://antennaweb.org/

ruadork wrote:How cpu-intensive is using Win7 as a DVR to record HD programs with this & later serve to a media extender?

I don't plan to watch recorded programs directly on the computer, just record using Win7 and then watch the shows on my TV via Xbox 360. Will I need a really powerful computer?

Using Media center on a Atom D525 computer with 2GB of memory works with no sweat.

Although it's true at this time cable companies are required to provide local HD in clear QAM, which the SiliconDust is compatible with, the FCC is currently considering a proposal to allow cable systems that are all digital to encrypt all channels including local HD channels.

If the FCC approves this request, which it appears they will, the SiliconDust will soon be useless for cable, as most all cable companies are in the process of converting their systems to all digital. Comcast for example, the largest US cable provider, has already converted over 20% of their systems to all digital. There will most likely be some exceptions to this, but expect to see most cable systems go all digital to take advantage of the upcoming FCC ruling.

Regardless of that, the SiliconDust is fully compatible with over-the-air Digital TV reception, as long as you have an antenna and are roughly 60 miles or less from the broadcast stations you want to view. Local broadcast stations typically include ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS, and in larger metropolitan areas also The CW, My Network TV, ION, TeleFutura, Telemundo, Univision, and other local independent stations.

Viewing local stations using over-the-air Digital TV has a few benefits over viewing the same stations using clear QAM from cable:
1) After you buy the hardware, it's totally free.
2) The HD quality you get over-the-air is as good as it gets. Many cable systems additionally compress local HD on their systems, but when you use an antenna, it comes direct from the source.
3) If the cable system has technical issues with local stations, you are out of luck. When you use an antenna for over-the-air, unless a station goes entirely off the air, you will still be able to view it.

To learn more about what stations you can receive over-the-air locally, go to TV Fool.com and punch in your info, and then post the results in the HDTV Technical Forum at AVS Forums. You'll get lots of advice about what antennas to try and how to optimize reception.