ThunderThighs wrote:Well, looky there. We done lowered the price! Take that!

Just a side note - once, while working at Cedar Point (amusement park), a guest asked me "When they done change that?"

After a brief aneurysm, I let him know that backpacks have never been allowed on roller coasters.

Ok, I'm looking at using this to display content (potentially 2 different channels) on 2 different TV's simultaneously. Both have PCs hooked up to them currently. Can 2 different media center PCs each control a tuner on here? Or will 1 have to be set up as the main, and then can the other act as an Extender, or can only the X-Box do that?

d1ez3 wrote:Thanks for all the info. I have an xBox already too. So I just contact Brighthouse and ask for the card. It's a one time fee, without monthly charges I would assume.

Edit: just bought one, hope I like it!

In case it helps...
With Brighthouse MI, went to the local office, asked for & got a cable card free -- just had to sign for it. Their web site said no Tuning Adapters in this area - wrong. Hooked the Prime up, & called to get it activated. No Joy. They said to give it an hour or so, so we just let it sit & called the next evening after work -- it took 4-5 days of this before it *took*. Excited to have it working, checked & ~1/2 the channels were missing...

Contacted SiliconDust, on a Fri evening got an immediate reply, they had me do a QAM channel scan with the Prime set to phone home, & diagnosed the problem as the cable card had a bad channel map, get a TA. Went back to the local cable office where we got one of those free. Called to have it activated, the Brighthouse folks went nuts, forwarding the call 1/2 dozen times till someone gave it a try. When that didn't work they said they *Had* to send out a tech so s/he could tell them what to do, how to activate the stupid thing.

The tech came out, did a few measurements, made a couple calls, & e-mailed engineering, telling us that engineering had to get things working, they'd call. The TA was a Motorola MTR700, which needs later firmware to work with more than 2 tuners, & possibly to activate -- we made sure to tell this to the tech. Couple days later it started working -- walked into the living room that morning & the orange LED was solid & everything works great.

Once I had all the channels I started looking at the Prime's status in Firefox, tuning in a channel in MC, then checking that tuner's signal strength. I had read all over the place on-line that for a cable card setup like this, get an amp/splitter -- they were right. I picked this one up at Amazon http://goo.gl/JmWzi [it was $34 last month] & couldn't be happier -- it was well worth it.

Good luck -- I'm sure you'll love the Prime.

Any reason why I couldn't use a splitter and run one input to my modem and the 2nd to the prime just so I can watch one channel on using my TV and cable box, and another channel on my Ipad?

bryrp wrote:This does not work well - you have to setup a script or icsi drive.

http://www.mediacenterhouse.com/forum/archive/index.php/thread-349.html

one alternative.

Thanks for the info. Since that thread is about setting up a script to run an automated copy, I assume a purely manual copy is not a problem (e.g., just go to Windows Explorer and copy the whole recording folder to a backup drive)? I'm just trying to verify that DRM doesn't somehow forbid the file-copy process.

I'm fairly sure the poster was kidding about the "channel 3" thing. Channel 3 would be an analog output, and those haven't been used for years.

SJPadbury wrote:Ok, I'm looking at using this to display content (potentially 2 different channels) on 2 different TV's simultaneously. Both have PCs hooked up to them currently. Can 2 different media center PCs each control a tuner on here? Or will 1 have to be set up as the main, and then can the other act as an Extender, or can only the X-Box do that?

I think YMMV a little bit... any PC running win7's MC can access the Prime, but they can conflict, asking to use the same tuner -- when that's happened to me MC popped up a dialog offering to set up the cable card, I clicked no, & it happily found another tuner. Setting it up in MC I had read somewhere that you had to have the cable card reactivated, but that did not happen for us. As far as extenders & that sort of thing go, check the SiliconDust forums.

SJPadbury wrote:Ok, I'm looking at using this to display content (potentially 2 different channels) on 2 different TV's simultaneously. Both have PCs hooked up to them currently. Can 2 different media center PCs each control a tuner on here? Or will 1 have to be set up as the main, and then can the other act as an Extender, or can only the X-Box do that?

The answer is yes!

Each of the three tuners in the HDHomeRune will show up as separately available tuners to Windows MCE. You can configure all three tuners so that they're a 'pool' shared between all PCs, but the best thing to do is designate them so that only PC A can access tuner 1 & 2, and PC B to tuner 3.

gantt wrote:Can I *watch* more than one channel at a time using a single PC running Windows Media Center?

I understand I can record multiple channels simultaneously, but I've watched some YouTube videos and so far I haven't seen anyone demonstrate watching more than a single channel live.

I used to do this on my dual-tuner TV with PiP (e.g., watch CNN and FNC, flipping back and forth), but I lost that capability when technology "advanced" (analog to digital).

I haven't tried to launch two instances of Media Center, but if you could, that would be the only way to do what you're asking. The reason for this is that you only have one output from the PC to the TV.

In theory, if you had the capability of outputting to two monitors, you should be able to take each output to the TV and tell the TV to use PIP. I don't think it would work all that well, and it would still be predicated on the ability to have two instances of Media Center running, which now that I think about it, I don't think it's possible.

Bottom line is that even if it's possible, the design doesn't make it all that feasible unless you displayed both instances on the same desktop.

ultrawolf wrote: I'm just trying to verify that DRM doesn't somehow forbid the file-copy process.

No one has cracked Microsoft's DRM, so no one's sure about everything that'll set it off. I just copied a ~7 GB protected recording from one drive to another on this PC & it works fine. OTOH I've read about at least potential problems when you do the same thing with a networked drive. I've also read where over time the keys Windows uses for decrypting DRM changes, so a protected recording stored on external media/drives worked initially but not later on. Personally I haven't done any of that -- if I want to keep a movie I'll get the Blu-Ray because it's much higher quality than what I get from Brighthouse -- so I'm definitely not an expert when it come to Windows DRM.

digitoast wrote:The answer is yes!

Each of the three tuners in the HDHomeRune will show up as separately available tuners to Windows MCE. You can configure all three tuners so that they're a 'pool' shared between all PCs, but the best thing to do is designate them so that only PC A can access tuner 1 & 2, and PC B to tuner 3.

I don't agree. I have the Dual, and always have the two tuners allocated to any of my three devices at any time. There are many times I will be watching and recording on one TV, then end a recording and go to another room and let the kids watch live TV, then end what I am watching in one room and resume it in another room. Having that flexibility is huge in my home, and I would think it would be nice to have that flexibility in yours as well.

digitoast wrote:The answer is yes!

Each of the three tuners in the HDHomeRune will show up as separately available tuners to Windows MCE. You can configure all three tuners so that they're a 'pool' shared between all PCs, but the best thing to do is designate them so that only PC A can access tuner 1 & 2, and PC B to tuner 3.

Makes sense to me, but posts in the SiliconDust forums say do not set aside tuners that way, as it causes more problems

tripodjim wrote:Any reason why I couldn't use a splitter and run one input to my modem and the 2nd to the prime just so I can watch one channel on using my TV and cable box, and another channel on my Ipad?

Adding the average splitter cuts the signal strength to each output, how much varies a bit depending on the splitter used, but in my experience it's around -4dB. If your signal is only 4dB to start with that's not cool, if it starts higher you may be OK.

Per the following post, the Prime DOES NOT support ATSC (digital over air) signals:
http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=72911#72911

Here is what you need to make this work.

1. This device.

2. A router.

3. Windows 7 PC

4. A CableCard from your local cable company or Verizon Fios

5. Optionally you can use an Xbox 360 or other device to stream television, live and recorded, from one of your MediaCenter enabled PCs.

This device DOES NOT ATTACH DIRECTLY TO YOUR TV or Xbox 360 or iPad.

This device DOES AllOW you to record and view copy protected content. (though copy once content, HBO etc, can only be viewed on the device it was recorded on or via Xbox 360)

Windows Media center software comes free with every version of Windows 7 from Home Premium up.

This device is really superb. You can rid your house of cable boxes and stop paying your cable company outlandish equipment rental prices. The windows 7 DVR is easily 10x better than those on offer from the cable companies.

I own the non-cablecard, dual tuner version of this product (HDHR3-US).

I've found it to receive both ATSC and unencrypted QAM256 without problems.

Primary use is with XBMC-PVR branch to catch certain network television shows that are less likely to be available over the net.

Using tvheadend, one can also use the TVHGuide android app to watch channels on their droid device. This requires libdvrhdhomerun to trick the linux kernel into thinking that the network device is a local tuner device.

pcapasso wrote:Ok. That was super helpful thank you. But still another question if you know, what do you mean by tuner? I would love to get rid of cable so any way I can seems great.

One of the biggest deterrents for me with this type of thing has been the ability to just lay on the couch on a lazy Sunday and flip through the channels. Would I be able to do this?

(seriously...I've always been a tech guy..What the Force happened to me)

There are 2 ways to approach something like the Prime IMO, as a way to bring TV to your PC [for viewing DVR etc.], & as a way to replace your cable box etc. with something better, a more full fledged HTPC affair optionally including networked video serving &/or storage.

It sounds like the 2nd is what you'd be more interested in, & yes the Prime will work that way if you've got a PC/laptop within the range of a MC remote from your couch -- just use Media Center as a replacement for your cable box/DVR menus. Maybe better from that perspective, there are HTPCs, or cases etc. if you build your own, that look/work fine sitting below your HDTV or wherever the cable box used to reside -- I have an HDMI cable running from this PC to the HDTV, but I have to drag MC over to the 2nd screen [the HDTV], which my wife would/will never bother with, so a dedicated HTPC has its advantages.

ThunderThighs wrote:Well, looky there. We done lowered the price! Take that!


Usual disclaimer: If you ordered before the price change, have no fear. You will get the lower price and will most likely be contacted by our wonder customer service people to explain it all.

Now, go buy 3!

Even if we ordered on 4/23/2012 on Sellout! The sad part was I didn't get it in time for the EPIX preview weekend so I couldn't record all of the Marvel Movies, and yes there are sites where I could download them, but at least this way is legal, at least to my knowledge.

ultrawolf wrote:Thanks for the info. Since that thread is about setting up a script to run an automated copy, I assume a purely manual copy is not a problem (e.g., just go to Windows Explorer and copy the whole recording folder to a backup drive)? I'm just trying to verify that DRM doesn't somehow forbid the file-copy process.

No issues copying files, the issue you will have is playing them back. The Tuner copies the streams exactly. The Cable Card in conjunction with PlayReady DRM is required to play the files back. It really doesn't matter where they are located. So long as the CableCard is present and paired to the PlayReady Drm on the computer/device you are using for playback.

mikiemas wrote:
The downside is DRM -- you need to use win7 Media Center, & many [most?] shows/movies have DRM flags set so they can *Only* be played on the PC/laptop where they were saved.

Is that true even if I watch a DRM flagged show on an extender (XB360)?

Thanks

FUN FACT: Verizon FIOS apparently doesn't set the Content Protected flag to On, so you should be able to download it onto one PC and watch it on another without any problem. The only annoying part is that it's in wtv format if you use windows media center which takes up a lot of space and of course not compatible on quite a few other devices.

ericksonkurt wrote:Per the following post, the Prime DOES NOT support ATSC (digital over air) signals:
http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=72911#72911

FWIW, run setup, go to the Tuners tab, under Source Type, per tuner select from the drop-down, "CableCARD", "Digital Cable", "Digital Antenna", "Disabled", click Apply, or OK if/when done.

jk2010 wrote:Is that true even if I watch a DRM flagged show on an extender (XB360)?

Thanks

When you watch on the xbox 360 as an extender, as long as the PC it's being "extended" from has permissions to watch it, youshould be fine because the PC is just "streaming" the content.

jk2010 wrote:Is that true even if I watch a DRM flagged show on an extender (XB360)?

Thanks

With an extender you're still using the same PC/laptop so it should work fine. They've got quite a few threads I think over at the SiliconDust forums talking about the ways some folks use extenders to get around the DRM problem.

jon98gn wrote:FUN FACT: Verizon FIOS apparently doesn't set the Content Protected flag to On, so you should be able to download it onto one PC and watch it on another without any problem. The only annoying part is that it's in wtv format if you use windows media center which takes up a lot of space and of course not compatible on quite a few other devices.

If it protected not much you can do except record it as it's playing with a screen capture app -- hardest part 'bout that is a lot of on-board sound chip drivers won't let you record what's playing.

If it's unprotected some apps will deal with wtv, or right click convert to DVR-MS, which many more apps can handle. Check out MCTVConverter.

iPad app is $17.99. Wish I had know that before I sprang for one. Dang!

Alright, spent the last bit browsing the thread, and haven't seen this question asked yet (I hope)...

My current computer is actually a MacBook Pro with a Windows 7 Bootcamp. But, I don't have Media Center. I believe I did see some mention of software available for Mac, but will my Xbox 360 work with it as it does when I stream content from Windows?

Also, I this will still allow pausing and rewinding live TV correct? And from what it sounds like with the three tuners, you can watch one live show while recording up to 2 others correct?

While I consider myself pretty tech savvy, this is my first venture into digital tuners, and I would love to not have to pay Comcast a monthly HD-DVR charge. Thanks again fellow Wooters!

Yes, you can watch flagged shows on your 360 or other "real" extender (if you can find one). Just not on another PC and if you use something like MCEBuddy, to convert your recordings, it won't work (that I've found anyways).

Cool stuff to check out if they haven't been mentioned before are: TunerSalad (allows you to use more tuners) and MyChannelLogos (give the icon and allows you to change the number of channels shown in the guide).

FWIW, I have a Prime and non-Prime SD and am thinking about buying another Prime :-).

d1ez3 wrote:Thanks for all the info. I have an xBox already too. So I just contact Brighthouse and ask for the card. It's a one time fee, without monthly charges I would assume.

Edit: just bought one, hope I like it!

You will be charged a monthly fee for a cablecard, (mine is $3 a month)

mikiemas wrote:Makes sense to me, but posts in the SiliconDust forums say do not set aside tuners that way, as it causes more problems

I've never had any trouble with my tuners being dedicated. I have multiple HDHRs. On my primary recording PC, I have three tuners (A B C) set as a shared pool. On my notebook and desktop, I have tuner D set as single shared tuner. Tuners E and F are set as a shared pool on my wife's notebook and desktop.

In this setup, if I have three recordings on A B C all active, I am still able to watch whatever I want (including the same content that may be on ABC) without fear of ruining and interrupting a recording. Likewise, my wife can watch and do whatever she wants without interfering with my dedicated tuner (D) or any of the higher priority ABC tuners.

The only tricky part to all of this is writing down and keeping a complete list of all the tuner IDs. Whenever you configure a PC, every single tuner on the network will appear; with the list you can then keep track of what ID (ex: A-F) is assigned to where

Basically, for anyone thinking about using this as a "whole-house" DVR system, let me boil this down as simply as possible for you:

- Dedicate one Windows 7 system as the central hub for all recording and playback, the only machine actively running Windows Media Center and the only device connected to this Prime. The PC needs a capable processor, and adequate storage. You can bury this anywhere in your house (maybe in a closet, next to the Prime) or use it connected to one TV/monitor itself. Note that the WAF (wife acceptance factor) of using a computer directly to watch TV is pretty low, hence why I don't do this.

- For all of the TVs around your house, you need to "extend" that aforementioned Windows Media Center session to them, using "extenders" preferably on gigabit wiring. Currently, the only practical solution for this is the Xbox 360 (the cheapest, 4 GB version is fine). Ceton Corp (www.cetoncorp.com) is promising a new extender later this year (the "Echo"), that will be a more elegant (far smaller) solution.

Do get yourself the white Media Center remotes for any Xboxes you have, and set the Xboxes to automatically boot into Windows Media Center when they turn on. These efforts will standardize your setup and keep it as simple as possible.

If you follow the above, you will not even have to worry about the DRM headaches and copy flags, since you're only using that one PC. The MythTV and iPad stuff being discussed here is for tech geeks with a lot of time and very high pain tolerances.

Ok, I read every comment to make sure my situation wasn't already addressed...

1: I'm using Comcast/Xfinity, it's my understanding that neither On Demand nor PPV will work with this, is that confirmed?

2: I'm not too concerned about #1, as I plan to use a dedicated, always-on HTPC (I was thinking an ASUS or Lenovo Atom-powered PC w/HDD's as needed - any problems there?) with a few Xbox 360's throughout the house for the On Demand stuff. Will I...
a)... have any issues using On Demand/ HBO apps only renting a CableCard rather than cableboxes?
b)... be able to access those video applications tied to my Xbox Live account simultaneously on multiple 360's without signing in/out constantly (I know this question's off-topic from the product, but you fellas/gals seem pretty smart)?

3: To insure a strong signal/good bandwidth throughout the house I may use a wireless access point in part of the house (in addition to the primary wireless router). Will...
a)... the HDHomeRun/HTPC/360's play nice with this setup (keeping in mind some extenders will be using the access point rather than the primary network)?
b)... using a "G" router rather than an "N" router as the secondary access point confuse things and/or cripple my speeds/bandwidth on the entire network or just off the access point?

If you read this whole thing, thanks, and no need to try and answer everything - I'll take what I can get!

Anyone know what the copy protection settings are like on Comcast systems?

Also, does this take one CableCARD or 3?

johnnymadass wrote:No issues copying files, the issue you will have is playing them back. The Tuner copies the streams exactly. The Cable Card in conjunction with PlayReady DRM is required to play the files back. It really doesn't matter where they are located. So long as the CableCard is present and paired to the PlayReady Drm on the computer/device you are using for playback.

Thanks - that's what I needed. I'm really tempted to pull the trigger on one of these....

dabretty wrote:
- For all of the TVs around your house, you need to "extend" that aforementioned Windows Media Center session to them, using "extenders" preferably on gigabit wiring. Currently, the only practical solution for this is the Xbox 360 (the cheapest, 4 GB version is fine).

I've had some success streaming HDHR-WMC recordings to my Sony Blu-Ray players, which are DLNA compliant. You won't have the same WMC interface- it's simply browsing files from media-tagged directories. But it does work.

If this had an additional input for OTA/ATSC I'd pull the trigger on it.

I don't get it... why has this been up so long? And where are the flashing lights?


Oh, sorry, got too used to Wooting Off over the last 2 days...

mikiemas wrote:No one has cracked Microsoft's DRM, so no one's sure about everything that'll set it off. I just copied a ~7 GB protected recording from one drive to another on this PC & it works fine. OTOH I've read about at least potential problems when you do the same thing with a networked drive. I've also read where over time the keys Windows uses for decrypting DRM changes, so a protected recording stored on external media/drives worked initially but not later on. Personally I haven't done any of that -- if I want to keep a movie I'll get the Blu-Ray because it's much higher quality than what I get from Brighthouse -- so I'm definitely not an expert when it come to Windows DRM.

There "should" be no problems as long as the storage is where its saved. once you move it to a drive off the PC if thats not where it was originally.... who knows. Playready is all around a pain in the ass. I had to reinstall windows 7 to get it working at least once.... and if you want to access stuff recorded on another PC somewhere else you have to buy an xbox since you can't use a pc as an extender... Its all around insane.

As long as its marked copy freely it works out alright. And if its not its fine on that system... just don't copy to the laptop and expect it to work. Its not TOO bad where i live... but i understand some networks everything is copy protected.

charlesfro wrote:Ok, I read every comment to make sure my situation wasn't already addressed...

1: I'm using Comcast/Xfinity, it's my understanding that neither On Demand nor PPV will work with this, is that confirmed?

2: I'm not too concerned about #1, as I plan to use a dedicated, always-on HTPC (I was thinking an ASUS or Lenovo Atom-powered PC w/HDD's as needed - any problems there?) with a few Xbox 360's throughout the house for the On Demand stuff. Will I...
a)... have any issues using On Demand/ HBO apps only renting a CableCard rather than cableboxes?
b)... be able to access those video applications tied to my Xbox Live account simultaneously on multiple 360's without signing in/out constantly (I know this question's off-topic from the product, but you fellas/gals seem pretty smart)?

3: To insure a strong signal/good bandwidth throughout the house I may use a wireless access point in part of the house (in addition to the primary wireless router). Will...
a)... the HDHomeRun/HTPC/360's play nice with this setup (keeping in mind some extenders will be using the access point rather than the primary network)?
b)... using a "G" router rather than an "N" router as the secondary access point confuse things and/or cripple my speeds/bandwidth on the entire network or just off the access point?

If you read this whole thing, thanks, and no need to try and answer everything - I'll take what I can get!

1) That's correct. On-demand programming is not available with a CableCard tuner. The solution I use for this is the XBox 360 apps, which actually have MORE content than On-demand and a better interface, IMO (I use HBOGo, but not "Xfinity").

2) a) Comcast's on-demand apps require a cablebox. You only need one for your whole house, but you need one. You can unplug it and keep it in a closet once you've done the initial setup, but you do have to have it because when you first set up the app, it Comcast's server connects to your primary CableBox your cable modem and sets a flag in the modem. I think the first one is free, though, so if that's the case, it shouldn't be an issue for most folks.

b) I just tried HBO Go on two of my Xboxes (I tried watching Fred Savage's The Wizard - The greatest commercial ever made). Logging onto HBO Go on one, logged me out of the other. I should note that I only have one XBox Live Gold account, so if you have multiple accounts you MAY be fine. I have no way of knowing.

3) I can't speak to wireless speeds. I use hardwired Ethernet for everything but mobile devices.

charlesfro wrote:Ok, I read every comment to make sure my situation wasn't already addressed...

1: I'm using Comcast/Xfinity, it's my understanding that neither On Demand nor PPV will work with this, is that confirmed?

2: I'm not too concerned about #1, as I plan to use a dedicated, always-on HTPC (I was thinking an ASUS or Lenovo Atom-powered PC w/HDD's as needed - any problems there?) with a few Xbox 360's throughout the house for the On Demand stuff. Will I...
a)... have any issues using On Demand/ HBO apps only renting a CableCard rather than cableboxes?
b)... be able to access those video applications tied to my Xbox Live account simultaneously on multiple 360's without signing in/out constantly (I know this question's off-topic from the product, but you fellas/gals seem pretty smart)?

3: To insure a strong signal/good bandwidth throughout the house I may use a wireless access point in part of the house (in addition to the primary wireless router). Will...
a)... the HDHomeRun/HTPC/360's play nice with this setup (keeping in mind some extenders will be using the access point rather than the primary network)?
b)... using a "G" router rather than an "N" router as the secondary access point confuse things and/or cripple my speeds/bandwidth on the entire network or just off the access point?

If you read this whole thing, thanks, and no need to try and answer everything - I'll take what I can get!

1: You CAN watch PPV, but you will need to call your cable provider (or use their website) to order the PPV event. You will not be able to order the PPV event with your remote control. You can NOT watch On-demand (VOD) with this.

2: I strongly recommend NOT using an Atom processor. You will need a pretty fast CPU (2.5GHz or faster), with one CPU core for each extender that you plan to run simultaneously. For example, if you want to watch two TV's simultaneously, you need a dual-core CPU. If you want to watch 6 TV's simultaneously (5 extenders, plus one connected to the PC directly), you need 6 CPU cores. You will also need a minimum of 2GB of RAM, PLUS an additional 1GB of RAM per extender that you plan to run simultaneously. Again, for example, if you want to watch TV on two extenders simultaneously, you will need 4GB of RAM. If you want to watch TV on five extenders simultaneously, you will need at least 7GB of ram. If the amount of RAM required for your setup exceeds 4GB, you will need the 64-bit version of Windows 7.

3: Using a wireless connection for your extenders is NOT recommended. It may work, but it could cause you a lot of headaches. Wireless is just not reliable enough for this application. If you plan to use more than 1 extender simultaneously with the HD HomeRun Prime, then I strongly suggest that you use a WIRED GIGABIT network.

For all of you with questions, head on over to www.thegreenbutton.tv. It's a great forum for Media Center enthusiasts... experienced and newbies alike.

Picked one up, but from the J&R link instead. Snailpost is fine for the little stuff (shirts, screaming monkeys, etc.) but seems ridiculous for anything over $100.

Smartpost is 7-21 days in my area. There is an upside to this though... by the time I receive anything from Woot I've forgotten that I even ordered it. It's like Christmas, but your presents get treated like pinatas and you can only open them after the New Year.

Hey Woot! How about a shipping upgrade charge... maybe another $5 for ground or something in the guaranteed 3-5 day range?