WootBot


quality posts: 14 Private Messages WootBot

Staff

It's 4/20, the "counterculture holiday" celebrated by stoned college freshmen everywhere and Doug Benson fans in whichever city he's taping his annual comedy album. The debate for legalizing marijuana's getting louder, particularly with the recognition of "legal" medical marijuana dispensaries in 15 states along with Washington DC and the fact that our entire economy nearly collapsed a few years back and state governments are desperate for revenue. In case you haven't paid up your subscription to High Times, "legal" is in quotation marks because while states are starting to come around to the idea of decriminalizing pot, even if only for medical purposes, the federal government still very much disapproves and, despite the President's earlier pledge to focus on other things, have resumed raiding dispensaries and arresting licensed growers and patients.

It's a hot box button issue, with strong feelings on both sides. And while I would certainly never admit that I smoke weed on the blog my employer pays me to write, I can appreciate the argument for legalization. There is evidence indicating it's less dangerous than alcohol. There is evidence showing it's not habit-forming. It would put a sizable dent in organized drug trafficking here and in Mexico. It would generate a TON of money. But this isn't a blog post to convince you one way or another.

This is a blog post to complain about stoners...

 

 

Because it's impossible to have an intelligent debate on marijuana legalization in this country. The side against has their evidence and it is organized, succinct, and itemized. It requires careful, thoughtful analysis before presenting your counterarguments. This is, after all, a debate over the writing of laws. You can't just wing it; you have to know your stuff forwards and backwards and it has to pass the muster. Your science must be accurate. The onus is on you because you have 40 years of law stating this stuff is a dangerous drug and people are going to need some serious evidence to think it's safe to unleash that stuff on the populace. But you believe in the cause so you do your homework and you come prepared and you wear your best suit and tie and you make clear, cohesive, cogent points.

Then the dude in the Rasta beanie and the Grateful Dead t-shirt shows up and starts howling "LEGALIZE IT, MAN! IT'S ONLY A PLANT! WE COULD MAKE INTO PANTS OR USE IT TO POWER OUR CARS!" And your argument, however valid, goes completely out the window.
 

Eugene Stoner !
"I don't understand why my senator's not taking me seriously."


Medical marijuana is about giving people access to something that can legitimately help with severe pain and nausea. Legalizing marijuana across the board is about people wanting to get high. We all know it. To try and argue that you should be able to grow hemp so you can make rope while holding a six-feet-tall bong with Bob Marley's face on it is disingenuous and it's what turns everybody off about supporting your cause. If you're not transparently honest about your stance then people are left to fill in the gaps with what else you might be hiding, and their imaginations run wild.
 

High way 420, Pennsylvania
Worst case scenario: a huge spike in pictures like this.
 

So if you wear tie-dye and have multiple possession arrests, stop arguing about "the myriad uses" of pot. Once people can start admitting they just want to get high without having to visit some guy named "P-Nut," and pointing out that it's possible to use it responsibly, they might just get somewhere.

Not that it matters to me either way, of course.

 

Pictures (in order)
Eugene Stoner!  by Don Hankins and
High way 420, Pennsylvania by nikoretro 
used under a
Creative Commons license.

 

WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter

Well there you go. You just lost a woot! customer. Buh bye.

phantom240


quality posts: 4 Private Messages phantom240

Fantastic blog post. Most stoners have no idea how to convey a good message about marijuana, and I think you may have just pointed them in the right direction.

Sincerely,
A fellow "enthusiast"

llandar


quality posts: 32 Private Messages llandar
WesPorter wrote:Well there you go. You just lost a woot! customer. Buh bye.



Because you're an offended anti-drug activist, or because you're an offended stoner? I just like to know which column to tally.

DennisG2010


quality posts: 19 Private Messages DennisG2010
llandar wrote:Because you're an offended anti-drug activist, or because you're an offended stoner? I just like to know which column to tally.



Seriously. LOL - What part of this could possibly have offended someone enough to rage quit the site?

I can only think of 2 possibilities.
He's either just kidding, or he's the guy in the picture (or a reasonable facsimile thereof).

NascarDad


quality posts: 21 Private Messages NascarDad

Now that is an entry with guts - likely to alienate both sides of the debate - good job ;)

And yet, so true. Some of the activists remind me of my 8 year old arguing endlessly about something, throwing tantrums, bringing it up repeatedly. Even if I was inclined to see things his way, I can't reward his acting out without getting more of it, and he looks really ridiculous when he acts out.

Personally, I hate pot, the smoke makes me ill (not that I have ever had it or even been near it, I just sort of, um, know ).

But I don't believe it should be a criminal offense anymore than I think we should bring back the Prohibition Era. But hey, what do I know?

jouvamoufette


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jouvamoufette

Oh hey I know that intersection. That's at Baltimore Pike and PA 420 (Woodland Avenue). Butt load of car dealerships along Baltimore Pike right there.

UncleFroG


quality posts: 3 Private Messages UncleFroG

@llandar: Well written, Sir.

12 Bags of Crap and counting!

WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter
llandar wrote:Because you're an offended anti-drug activist, or because you're an offended stoner? I just like to know which column to tally.



Put me in the column of a person who believes in objective morality.

WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter
DennisG2010 wrote:Seriously. LOL - What part of this could possibly have offended someone enough to rage quit the site?

I can only think of 2 possibilities.
He's either just kidding, or he's the guy in the picture (or a reasonable facsimile thereof).



Actually, its neither of those.

DennisG2010


quality posts: 19 Private Messages DennisG2010
WesPorter wrote:Put me in the column of a person who believes in objective morality.



W T F does that mean? Are you high?

Seriously though, enlighten us - what about this article has you so offended that you feel compelled to boycott Woot?

(I notice you're still here, BTW)

txvoodoo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages txvoodoo
jouvamoufette wrote:Oh hey I know that intersection. That's at Baltimore Pike and PA 420 (Woodland Avenue). Butt load of car dealerships along Baltimore Pike right there.



Ahh, thank you! I knew that sign was familiar! I spent the first 30 years of my life in Delco, but I haven't lived there for over 15 years now.

mamagaea


quality posts: 2 Private Messages mamagaea

I feel EXACTLY the same way as you do. And I find it enormously funny that the stoner picture you used was from Eugene, just down the freeway from me. A friend is protesting in Washington to get medical marijuana legalized up there. I don't think enough people I know understand just how much the pot legalization fight bugs me.

pooflady


quality posts: 20 Private Messages pooflady

I'm embarrassed that I had to Google "objective morality" and I'm still not absolutely sure I understand it.



When I was a kid I wanted to be older, this CRAP is NOT what I expected.

WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter
DennisG2010 wrote:W T F does that mean? Are you high?

Seriously though, enlighten us - what about this article has you so offended that you feel compelled to boycott Woot?

(I notice you're still here, BTW)



First, I said they lost a customer. I didn't say I wasn't going to post anything on this blog. I will no longer purchase anything from woot! I hope that clears it up for you.

Second, the simple reason is I rather choose what is right than what is wrong. There is objective morality in this world and I choose to follow it.

Just because you think it is okay does not make it okay. Just because the masses think it is okay does not make it right. Am I in the minority? Probably, but then again the way I live my life is in the minority.

I love that I get to choose to spend my money where I want with whom I want.

Does that help you out?

Wes

llandar


quality posts: 32 Private Messages llandar
WesPorter wrote:Does that help you out?

Wes



Nope.

MaceWandru


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MaceWandru

Well stated article. In the words of the great Daniel Tosh, "I hope they legalize pot... just so I can stop hearing stoners talk about it all the time."

WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter
llandar wrote:Nope.



Well that doesn't surprise me.

How do you determine what is right and wrong in this world? Is it up to an individual to determine it? Or is there something outside the subject that determines right and wrong?

Besides that, your company is promoting something that is illegal on top of it. I find that inexcusable and irresponsible. Hence why you lost a customer.

How about that does it help yet?

Wes

mikeinsyr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mikeinsyr

The argument for legalization should be about choice; forget the medical-marijuana discussion. But the argument should be that the MOST addictive drugs, the most harmful drugs, should be regulated. Heck, they all should be regulated and controlled, because whatever drug we want to prohibit, will be the next substance we are giving to criminal elements for them to manufacture and distribute. Check out Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. http://www.leap.cc. Cops that say we should legalize drugs.

Shinespark


quality posts: 31 Private Messages Shinespark
WesPorter wrote:Well that doesn't surprise me.

How do you determine what is right and wrong in this world? Is it up to an individual to determine it? Or is there something outside the subject that determines right and wrong?

Besides that, your company is promoting something that is illegal on top of it. I find that inexcusable and irresponsible. Hence why you lost a customer.

How about that does it help yet?

Wes


Dude, pass that over here.

MaceWandru wrote:Well stated article. In the words of the great Daniel Tosh, "I hope they legalize pot... just so I can stop hearing stoners talk about it all the time."


Ditto. Not that I've ever seen a stoner actually do anything about legalization. Or do anything at all.

agingdragqueen


quality posts: 119 Private Messages agingdragqueen

Staff

WesPorter wrote:Well that doesn't surprise me.

How do you determine what is right and wrong in this world? Is it up to an individual to determine it? Or is there something outside the subject that determines right and wrong?

Besides that, your company is promoting something that is illegal on top of it. I find that inexcusable and irresponsible. Hence why you lost a customer.

How about that does it help yet?

Wes



I'd be more than happy to delete your account yo. I don't think anything else you're going to say will "help" him.


llandar


quality posts: 32 Private Messages llandar
WesPorter wrote:Well that doesn't surprise me.

How do you determine what is right and wrong in this world? Is it up to an individual to determine it? Or is there something outside the subject that determines right and wrong?

Besides that, your company is promoting something that is illegal on top of it. I find that inexcusable and irresponsible. Hence why you lost a customer.

How about that does it help yet?

Wes



You're obviously pretty upset, and I want to take a minute to point out that I am sincerely not understanding your argument, not just antagonizing you. You keep referring vaguely to "objective morality" and how right and wrong is determined, but you don't come right out and say what exactly you're upset about. Maybe this is some spiritual/religious thing for you? I'm not going to argue morality; we already seem to have vastly different ideas about it and it wouldn't help.

This post was not attacking morality, nor was it promoting drug use. It was cracking wise about the "stoner culture" that makes it hard to take seriously the people who advocate legalization. And the intent was to do so with some tongue-in-cheek humor, much like pretty much everything else we write here.

The end game here is always to entertain. Well, to sell junk and entertain. If you're truly in a huff and on your way out the door, I'm sorry to have upset you so. But I think it's important to point out that in your anger you are either missing or choosing to ignore the spirit of the piece.

jdorritie


quality posts: 3 Private Messages jdorritie

As a libertarian, non-pot smoking, 20-something, I agree 100% with this. Legalization makes sense, logically, but the people who advocate for it are JUST SO Jatravartid. I also hate how they ruin libertarianism. Whenever you see a libertarian candidate for president, its always some Arthur talking about pot. Go over to reason.com and read all of the intelligent posts about government abuses of our liberties. It could be so much more than just "Legalize it, man."

CyborgBill


quality posts: 1 Private Messages CyborgBill

The problem is, try as I might, I cannot find any language in the constitution that authorizes the federal government to have ANY say in what substance(s) I, as a consenting adult, do or do not introduce into my body by whatever means I choose. Add to that the 9th and 10th amendments which specifically reserve any rights NOT EXPLICITLY GRANTED TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT to the states or to the people, and I cannot see where any federal law concerning drugs is in any way constitutional. What ever happened to "My body, my choice"? Or does that only apply to slaughtering the unborn?

nhillyer


quality posts: 2 Private Messages nhillyer

Do not despair, woot. I will buy twice as much to compensate for losing Wes (as long as you continue to entertain me with your snarky prose).

bluemonq


quality posts: 1 Private Messages bluemonq

To start off, I don't smoke pot, it smells like cheap, terrible Chinese incense that I had to use whenever I went to temple as a kid. As far as I'm concerned though, as long as you aren't smoking it next to my laundry or in my car, I don't really care.

WesPorter wrote:How about that does it help yet?


I believe the actual issue was what you specifically found to be objectively immoral. Is it smoking pot? How do you feel about people who smoke tobacco? People who drink? If you are against all of them, thank you for being consistent. If you support one but not the other, please explain why.

I fail to see how Woot is promoting something illegal. Does it say "go have a joint!" somewhere in the post, perhaps secretly encoded and can read only with a secret decoder ring, which was sold in a sale I missed? Does the author advocate overthrowing the government so that all may toke freely? Does the author provide code phrases such that dispensaries will toss free bags of marijuana at your face?

As for your objective morality and your outside force or greater power, the Bible was once used to PROVE that all good Christians had the DUTY to bring the poor heathen Africans out of their ignorance and poverty to become slaves for said good Christians. So how do you know YOUR outside force is objectively correct?

Jasontheperson


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Jasontheperson

Lots of people are going to say it, but this is exactly, precisely how I feel about this matter.

Irrenmann


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Irrenmann

"Medical marijuana is about giving people access to something that can legitimately help with severe pain and nausea."

Well, that's what the Sativex spray is for, but of course you don't see potheads pushing for that. Why? Because it doesn't get them high, and all their claims about medicine, or how great hemp is for clothes or whatever, are all incredibly transparent BS so they can sit around and get high. Everyone knows it.

"Well alcohol is worse!" That's a good reason to make alcohol illegal, and that was tried before. It's hardly a good reason to make marijuana legal.

Druggies won't effect political change, or ever demonstrate some reason why people SHOULD be on drugs. They will always fail to do so because no such reason exists.

icrf


quality posts: 1 Private Messages icrf

I think medical rationales miss the point. Personal liberty is already about a balancing act between what a person chooses to do and how those acts affect other people. If an act doesn't affect anyone else, then there is no reason for it to be illegal. Substances like marijuana do have an effect outside the user, but they are no greater than tobacco or alcohol. Since society already deems those substances as "safe enough" then why not put marijuana in the same category? Nothing is completely safe. People don't want to live in isolated bubbles all day. Being able to do things people enjoy is what makes life fun.

DennisG2010


quality posts: 19 Private Messages DennisG2010

WesPorter is obviously high and mighty, while the rest of us are just mighty high.

Despite being holier than we, I hope he can lower himself to explain to us what it takes to be as righteous as he is.

Sincerely Wes, as snarky as my tone is, I genuinely am interested in understanding where the hell you're coming from.

I also was unable to find a satisfactory definition for "objective morality".
Is it simply a pretentious term for knowing the difference between right and wrong?

I, for one, find righteous indignation to fall on the side of wrong.

cindyscrazy


quality posts: 3 Private Messages cindyscrazy

This is a tough subject for me. I'm not a smoker, but I come from a family of smokers. It would be really nice not to worry about various older family members getting into legal trouble because they enjoy smoking. These people are in their 50's now, and law abiding people (except for the smoking). Is it fair to demonize them at this point?

The other side of the coin is that I'm an acknowledged addictive personality. I KNOW that if I smoke, I'll be a drooling stoner within a matter of weeks or months. Having it be illegal right now is a very good way to convince myself that having a toke is NOT a good thing. Then again, I also avoid alcohol and that's legal.

I guess I'm in support of legalization. I don't want to do it myself, and I don't want my 11 yr old to do it. It should be legalized in the way alcohol is. Only available to those over a certain age.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"--from a T-shirt

https://www.etsy.com/shop/cindyscrazyknits?ref=si_shop

crowsnest


quality posts: 53 Private Messages crowsnest
llandar wrote:You're obviously pretty upset, and I want to take a minute to point out that I am sincerely not understanding your argument, not just antagonizing you. You keep referring vaguely to "objective morality" and how right and wrong is determined, but you don't come right out and say what exactly you're upset about. Maybe this is some spiritual/religious thing for you? I'm not going to argue morality; we already seem to have vastly different ideas about it and it wouldn't help.

This post was not attacking morality, nor was it promoting drug use. It was cracking wise about the "stoner culture" that makes it hard to take seriously the people who advocate legalization. And the intent was to do so with some tongue-in-cheek humor, much like pretty much everything else we write here.

The end game here is always to entertain. Well, to sell junk and entertain. If you're truly in a huff and on your way out the door, I'm sorry to have upset you so. But I think it's important to point out that in your anger you are either missing or choosing to ignore the spirit of the piece.



EXACTLY! Thanks for the write up, keep up the GREAT work.

@crowsnest531

WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter
llandar wrote:You're obviously pretty upset, and I want to take a minute to point out that I am sincerely not understanding your argument, not just antagonizing you. You keep referring vaguely to "objective morality" and how right and wrong is determined, but you don't come right out and say what exactly you're upset about. Maybe this is some spiritual/religious thing for you? I'm not going to argue morality; we already seem to have vastly different ideas about it and it wouldn't help.

This post was not attacking morality, nor was it promoting drug use. It was cracking wise about the "stoner culture" that makes it hard to take seriously the people who advocate legalization. And the intent was to do so with some tongue-in-cheek humor, much like pretty much everything else we write here.

The end game here is always to entertain. Well, to sell junk and entertain. If you're truly in a huff and on your way out the door, I'm sorry to have upset you so. But I think it's important to point out that in your anger you are either missing or choosing to ignore the spirit of the piece.



I would disagree that you were not promoting the use of marijuana. You are legitimizing it by saying the "stoners" don't know how to argue their point correctly. Which says woot! as a company supports the legalization of it. We should do a better job and then it can be legalized.

I don't find it funny, just like any substance abuse. I love all the people who argue that since alcohol is legal then so should drugs. I am sure there are many people on woot! who have been negatively affected by both alcohol and drugs.

Why are these laws in place? Because people understand the damage it does. Again, just because alcohol is legal does not make it right or good.

I would love to know all the great things that have come out the drinking of alcohol or pot use verses the detriment of society. Crime, addiction, abuse, etc...



WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter
agingdragqueen wrote:I'd be more than happy to delete your account yo. I don't think anything else you're going to say will "help" him.



Great customer service way to go! Do you find threatening someone entertaining?

More reason for me never to buy something from woot! again. WOW.

dinsdalep13


quality posts: 1 Private Messages dinsdalep13
WesPorter wrote:I would disagree that you were not promoting the use of marijuana. You are legitimizing it by saying the "stoners" don't know how to argue their point correctly. Which says woot! as a company supports the legalization of it. We should do a better job and then it can be legalized.


The opinion of one employee does not constitute the opinion of the entire company. Just sayin'.

WesPorter


quality posts: 0 Private Messages WesPorter
dinsdalep13 wrote:The opinion of one employee does not constitute the opinion of the entire company. Just sayin'.



It is a blog post on their only storefront to ALL customers. If you don't think this was reviewed by their marketing department or approved by someone in management then shame on woot!

But we know what you expressed is not correct this was not done by a lone ranger.

cindyscrazy


quality posts: 3 Private Messages cindyscrazy
WesPorter wrote:
I would love to know all the great things that have come out the drinking of alcohol or pot use verses the detriment of society. Crime, addiction, abuse, etc...



I absolutely hesitate to get in the middle of this, but I feel I can speak to this point.

Whether or not it is legalized; the crime, abuse and addiction will continue. If kept illegal, the crime and abuse will actually tend to increase.

As I've posted, I come from a family were both pot and alcohol were used. The abuse is worse when the users get arrested and/or get into legal trouble. The stress of the problems are inevitably taken out on those who are closest to the user. If the legal issues are removed, the user will always find something else to become stressed about.

The use will continue, no matter the legality. History records what happened during Prohibition. The drinking continued, though, underground.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"--from a T-shirt

https://www.etsy.com/shop/cindyscrazyknits?ref=si_shop

dinsdalep13


quality posts: 1 Private Messages dinsdalep13
WesPorter wrote:It is a blog post on their only storefront to ALL customers. If you don't think this was reviewed by their marketing department or approved by someone in management then shame on woot!

But we know what you expressed is not correct this was not done by a lone ranger.



If woot does review the blog posts, perhaps they see nothing wrong with a little free speech here and there, especially when introduced through an entertaining and humorous blog. Just because one employee has the opinion that stoners should argue their case better doesn't mean the whole company condones getting high. What about the people that don't have the chance to review blog posts, and don't agree with what's being said? Or should every woot employee have to review a blog post before it's allowed to go live?

How would you have felt if this blog post had been about politicians, and their ability to obfuscate the simplest of points? Would you stand up and say "I'm now going to boycott woot because I disagree?" What if it'd been about Dr. Seuss, and they don't like his rhyming nonsense, and you do? Would that have made you stop buying from woot? Here's another example which might hit close to home for you...What if the post had been about their dislike of grammar Need more history channel.'s, and them berating and insulting people on forums. Would that make you rage quit woot as well?

I didn't mean for that post to end up so long, I'm just trying to understand what makes you tick.

Edit: Damn you filter!

avoidthelloyd


quality posts: 0 Private Messages avoidthelloyd
WesPorter wrote:I would disagree that you were not promoting the use of marijuana. You are legitimizing it by saying the "stoners" don't know how to argue their point correctly. Which says woot! as a company supports the legalization of it. We should do a better job and then it can be legalized.



False. The author is poking fun at people who can't be taken seriously because they're stoned. Don't put your assumptions (which are way off base) into the author's mouth.

WesPorter wrote:I don't find it funny, just like any substance abuse.



You don't have to. Why don't you do what you said you were going to do yesterday and leave?

WesPorter wrote:Why are these laws in place? Because people understand the damage it does.



False. Marijuana was at one point legal (and taxed) in the United States. It was made illegal at the request of strong lobbyists for the lumber and paper industries, who felt hemp threatened their stranglehold on the market. This is when you started seeing "Reefer Madness" style condemnations.

WesPorter wrote:I would love to know all the great things that have come out the drinking of alcohol or pot use verses the detriment of society. Crime, addiction, abuse, etc...



Straw man argument. This blog isn't taking a stance either way on marijuana legalization, and no one is saying "pot will make the world a better place." Advocates are arguing that they should have the right to decide if they want to use it, just like we trust adults to do with alcohol today.

Maybe you don't realize this, but the "crime" part goes away when it's legalized. Marijuana is not habit-forming. Yes it can be abused, just like alcohol or the fat and sugar you Americans love so much. So can paint; should that be illegal too just because some enterprising loser somewhere will find a way to abuse it?

crowsnest


quality posts: 53 Private Messages crowsnest
WesPorter wrote:Great customer service way to go! Do you find threatening someone entertaining?

More reason for me never to buy something from woot! again. WOW.



I read no threats, all that was said is that if YOU would like they would remove your account for you. Doesnt sound like a threat to me. I'm never buying anything from W00T again, now that sounds like a threat.

@crowsnest531