Currently have a 20" crt toshiba, wouldn't mind this to replace it. Not ATSC tuner makes me cringe though. I'll just wait.

Too bad it's a refurb (rox0rz!)... need something like this for our Travel Trailer. Would have been perfect if it was new.

spanky wrote:I wonder if these units have been refurbed to include an ATSC tuner. The FCC Report and Order FCC-05-190A1 )REQUIRES that ALL televisions have an ATSC tuner as of March 1. 2007
From FCC-05-190A1
"By this action, the Commission is modifying its rules to advance the date on which new television receivers with screen sizes 13-24” and certain other TV receiving devices such as VCRs and digital video recorders must include the capability to receive broadcast digital television signals from the current date of July 1, 2007 to March 1, 2007. ........"

I could be wrong, but I think that just has to do with the TVs being manufactured now. Those already on shelves or refurbed don't apply.

spanky wrote:I wonder if these units have been refurbed to include an ATSC tuner. The FCC Report and Order FCC-05-190A1 )REQUIRES that ALL televisions have an ATSC tuner as of March 1. 2007
From FCC-05-190A1
"By this action, the Commission is modifying its rules to advance the date on which new television receivers with screen sizes 13-24” and certain other TV receiving devices such as VCRs and digital video recorders must include the capability to receive broadcast digital television signals from the current date of July 1, 2007 to March 1, 2007. ........"

The cutoff dates are when they are made and not when they are sold!!!

Seems like a good deal.
On ebay, BUY IT NOW refurbished was $459. On Amazon, $420.
Under 24 inches, you can't see HD quality anyway.
And it's a spare computer monitor.
Enough imputs.
Including the HDMI input.
So I got one.

ptksr365 wrote:
I could be wrong, but I think that just has to do with the TVs being manufactured now. Those already on shelves or refurbed don't apply.

Google the FCC report. It was amended in 2005. How long do they need to clear the shelves? The report doesn't have any exceptions as far as I read. Seemed pretty clear to me. I've assumed that "Refurbed" in most cases were really new but older stock and the mfr didn't want to upset their retailers by undercutting them. Maybe it's a loophole. I really don't know. I'm tempted to buy one and see. Caveat Emptor.

Camoli wrote:
The cutoff dates are when they are made and not when they are sold!!!

Quote me Book,chapter and verse of the report. The excessive use of !!!! seems to me that you are really sure. I'd like to know before I get one.

No thanks, my Computer LCD is bigger than this!

This will be perfect for my bathroom! Now I can watch movies on the DVD!

LOve u

spanky wrote:

Quote me Book,chapter and verse of the report. The excessive use of !!!! seems to me that you are really sure. I'd like to know before I get one.

Google "FCC" and give them a call after you find their phone number. This question you ask is not my issue but yours as it seems...

Man, what a waste, the dvd player isn't HD, or even upconvert for that matter.

I can't figure it out. What is that movie?

Camoli wrote:
Google "FCC" and give them a call after you find their phone number. This question you ask is not my issue but yours as it seems...

I know their phone number. I deal with them on an ongoing basis.
I was merely asking a question. I can only assume that your reply to my initial post was your uninformed opinion since you provide no substantive authority other than exclamation marks whereas I quoted an official Report and Order issued by the FCC.
That's the wonderful thing about the internet. We are all experts without benefit of pedigree. As for me. I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night! :> Good night.

taro13 wrote:I can't figure it out. What is that movie?

It looks like John Madden with a hot girl. ha ha.

This might have been enticing if my monitor wasn't bigger and if it didn't have a better resolution. I'm gonna pass.

This is a pretty sweet deal. I would need a larger screen, but it's perfect for my girlfriends small apt - just picked one up. night.

But what's the contrast ratio? Not that I'm going to get it, but that's pretty critical IMHO.

VESA-Compliant Mounting Holes (100mm)

jjcool wrote:

Amen to that. Never buy combination components. You get screwed when one or the other dies, or just buy the fact that at least one of the components is pretty cheaply made. Much better off buying seperate pieces.

it doesn't hurt to have it as a backup thought......
consider my case...i have a LCD TV as my computer monitor

Been always play DVD thru my computer
one day my computer die.....had to reformat /reinstall....i caN'T WATCH DVD while doing re-install because my LCD TV does not have built in dvd.....i had to move my laptop from the other room to get this setup......

and oh...my wife always complain that computer is too noisy when she watch DVD on my 32" LCD TV/monitor while in our bedroom.........

huujedi wrote:

It looks like John Madden with a hot girl. ha ha.

Not even close. It's John Candy. I'm guessing from some time in the 80's.

awesome tv for the fitness room i havent set up yet! i should really do that.

SandraMort wrote:I have limited space and want something for my kids to play wii on. Will this wall mount?

I played Wii on a flat screen exactly this size and was sorely disappointed. You have to stand a bit farther from the TV to play Wii (so the sensor can pick it up), and at that range, text a tv this size is nearly unreadable.

a bit small - i will pass...

this could be a good gift for someone going to college.

Camoli wrote:There is NO over the air programming or on cable in 1080p. It's all in 720p or 1080i. Just remember any HDTV can't produce a better picture than the source....!

While there is not OTA programming in 1080p, there are plenty of components coming out that are. BluRay players, DVD-HD players, the PS3, computers with any halfway decent video card... there are a number of devices that are upconverting non-native 1080p sources to 1080p (and doing a decent job with it) as well. Rumor is that there will be a new Xbox 360 design with an HDMI port, don't know if this will push the console's output up to 1080p. No idea what your standard cable/satellite tuners are putting out. So while airborne signals won't be in 1080p (which this can't tune on it's own anyway) other devices that one could hook up can be.

For many people the 1080i/p issue isn't a big deal, it's just a number that salespeople can use to sucker them into buying more than they need. 720p can be enough eye candy for that crowd. Me? I picked up a 1080p Samsung in January, but I'm a computer hobbyist and console gamer that will take advantage of the higher-end output.

-Pow

I can't believe someone bought 3!...

hmmm.. there's a good reason it didn't sold out :-p
I'm weeping with joy!.. 20"...

20"...............what the funk can I do with a 20"........kitchen mabye......

We have a spare room in the basement that we've converted into an exercize room. This type of TV/DVD combo would be ideal to hang on the wall in front of the treadmill or other equipment to let my wife watch something while she's working out. It would also give me something to watch when I went down to visit her.

The product has 100mm VESA-Compliant mounting holes, so this plus the appropriate wall mount would work fine and be "cleaner" than separate TV and DVD boxes. If we hadn't already gone that route, getting this would be a no-brainer.

Alternative with more tuners but no dvd:
http://www.vizio.com/products/detail.aspx?pid=17
Extended Warranty Service Plans available

thesamurai wrote:Regardless, you need an ATSC tuner to watch even "digital" tv, regardless of HD or not.

ONLY if you watch programming over the air. For the majority of us (who get our TV via satellite or cable), it's a non-issue. Even forgetting the DVD player, $350 for 20" w/HDMI is pretty good.

Camoli wrote:
There is NO over the air programming or on cable in 1080p. It's all in 720p or 1080i. Just remember any HDTV can't produce a better picture than the source....!

Sigh. This myth again.

OK. First, unless you're buying a tube TV or a big CRT RPTV, you're buying a progressive device, OK? LCD, plasma, LCD RPTV, DLP RPTV, etc...all progressive. With me so far?

Now. Progressive displays basically come in three flavors: 480p, 720p, and 1080p. (Actual resolutions are sometimes slightly off of that -- most 720p displays are really 768p, etc.) EVERYTHING you watch on a progressive display is at the fixed resolution of that display. Still with me?

OK. So. If you feed such a display an interlaced ("i") signal, it's going to be deinterlaced. If you feed it an interlaced signal at a different resolution than the fixed resolution of that display, it's going to be deinterlaced and resized. So if you feed 1080i to a 1080p TV, it's just deinterlaced; if you feed 1080i to a 720p TV, it's deinterlaced and sized down.

It's actually more complicated than that -- if it's a film source (as most movies/TV dramas/etc. are), the TV should have a decomb filter that pulls it down to 24p, but I think I've made my point.

I purchased the 17" version of this about a year ago from a local big box retailer because I didn't want to run extra cables to my wall mounted TV. The DVD player died on day 28, had it lasted 2 more days I would have been at the mercy of manufacturer warrenty. As it is I traded up to a 20" Phillips and bought a $20 DVD player at Fleet Farm (which is still working just fine thank you very much). I can live with the cables.

Le Firebert

20" for for my system is great

Camoli wrote:
The cutoff dates are when they are made and not when they are sold!!!

Camoli is right (!!!)

The gov'ment regs always refer to the date of manufacture (cf. closed captioning chip law back in '90, "Require that apparatus ... designed to display closed-captioned..when such ... is manufactured ... or imported for use ...")

The interesting things is, would this device be considered a DVD player with a display or would it be considered a tv? Hmmm

For that price check out http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889022040

i95rr wrote:this could be a good gift for someone going to college.

my kids are going to college; contact me and I'll email you their addresses

Built in DVD player is not a good idea. Refurbished again? Should rename this site Refurbville!

The Toshiba brand name is nice and all, but this TV is not actually manufactured by Toshiba. That duty would go to Orion (who also makes TVs for the Insignia line at Best Buy). Orion makes all of Toshiba's CRT televisions, as well as their smaller (< 23") LCDs.

spanky wrote:I wonder if these units have been refurbed to include an ATSC tuner. The FCC Report and Order FCC-05-190A1 )REQUIRES that ALL televisions have an ATSC tuner as of March 1. 2007
From FCC-05-190A1
"By this action, the Commission is modifying its rules to advance the date on which new television receivers with screen sizes 13-24” and certain other TV receiving devices such as VCRs and digital video recorders must include the capability to receive broadcast digital television signals from the current date of July 1, 2007 to March 1, 2007. ........"