joebeimon wrote:As a 35 year licensed therapist, this is a pretty irresponsible item to put out to the general market. A TENS unit can really make a back problem a lot worse if used incorrectly. If the unit has removable electrodes that can be placed where "needed" THEN it can be used by someone with some knowledge. How many people will put these electrodes on their ears for fun? that's the real question. Great Libel case. dumb woot. Most people with PT training will think this pretty scary. But, hey we will make money off the people who have to seek treatment after using this.......

TENS units have been on the general market for a long time. Don't blame woot. Aspirin is also dangerous if used incorrectly. Like any product related to medical science, one should always seek advice from a professional relative to their specific condition. It even says right there on the medisana web page (and surely in the instructions included with the product):

"Do not use this System if you have undiagnosed chronic pain."

I do agree with your preference for individual electrodes that can be placed where needed, but I don't know enough about this unit to discount its effectiveness when used as directed.

lenhogger wrote:My wife is pregnant with a sore back. Is this safe ?

Did you read the description?

"Warning

Do not use this system if you have a cardiac pace maker, implanted defibrillator or any other implanted metallic or electronic device. Do not use this System if you have undiagnosed chronic pain. If pregnant, consult physician prior to use."

They used this on my knee after surgery when I went for PT. Can it be used on the knee? I just went skiing this weekend and my knee is in pain again.

jhklomanii wrote:OKKEEEEEEEEEE ------ I am just a little irritated here. I have a REAL perscritpion TENS unit that is perfectly good. I don't need it anymore. I am unable to sell it on Amazon or eBay, etc., becuae it is a PRESCRIPTION Only device. I am just a little disturbed that Woot can advertise this with descriptives that include TENS in the description use and purpose etc. I hope this is something that brings a benefit to people just altogether curious why you can buy a device from Woot described as a TENS unit which is supposed to be by prescrition only and I can't sell mine. Love Woot always have always will, just confused... What else is new, ahuhu...

I will buy it for $50

9 volt battery? Really, how much stimulus can you get from a 9 volt battery on your back? And for how long if you got it turned all the way up?

I am on this one like woot on rice! I've got a similar contraption at home arleady called Dr. Ho. It really helps with my pain (a QVC deal from years ago). This one looks much more powerful (since the retail price seems to be around $150).

My Accupuncturist also uses something similar. However she attaches clamps of some sort to the needles so the stimulation is much deeper.

dnelson29 wrote:9 volt battery? Really, how much stimulus can you get from a 9 volt battery on your back? And for how long if you got it turned all the way up?

You would be surprised. My guess is that at about 1/2 power you will want to turn it down. At full power you'll be screaming. Seriously - and the battery lasts quite awhile on the one I have at home (different brand, but same concept).

iceperson wrote:That's not scientific. That's some guy with no medical training schilling his book and hand picking a few studies. Most people with chronic back pain have had experience with these things and will tell you that they do relieve pain.

For this site that some TENS doubter posted:

http://www.rebuildyourback.com/treatment/TENS.php

Scientific? Yes.
Statistically valid testing? No.

You have to have a larger sample size to get conclusive evidence.

dnelson29 wrote:9 volt battery? Really, how much stimulus can you get from a 9 volt battery on your back? And for how long if you got it turned all the way up?

My mom's Omron tensor unit (smaller) lasts about a month on 2 AA batteries. The thing you need to consider here is, the pulse is coming out of the unit is neither 9 volts (it is many multiples of it) and it last only a very small fraction of a second, so current draw from the battery is next to none. So, 9V batter, I am assuming, should last you about 3-4 weeks at the least.

I've had bad back and neck problems for years. A few herniated discs and a lot of stress doesn't help. My Chiroprator and my massage therapist (not related) both use TENS on me and other patients. Really helps!

Of course I had to jump on this good deal! And bought 2 (meant to buy 3) just so I could give it as a gift too. So many people these days have back problems.

I also am a physical therapist as well as a certified athletic trainer (DPT, ATC). TENS units can be really beneficial for patients with pain in the back, shoulder, knees, hips, etc. I only say use caution with this unit. TENS units work on the priniciple of the GATE control theory of pain (i.e. the stimulation blocks pain signals from reaching the brain causing an analgesic effect. If anyone is really bored and wants to know about 1a-afferent nerves, etc....just let me know). This helps with pain relief but also helps to limit the brain from sending spasm signals to the surrounding musculature.

From my general knowledge of these devices, when they are this cheap, they are typically not as effective. The better models come with a variety of wave forms, ability to change pulse widths and pulse durations, ability to change Hz (or pulses per second), etc. This is were a PT can really be helpful. They can adjust these setting to make the machine more effective. It also will limit the natural response of the body to adapt to the stimulation. Just like anything else, if you keep using the same thing over and over again, your body will get use to it and it will be significantly less effective. Also, depending on the location of the patients pain, different pad placements and configurations can be used.

But just like any other medical device, it has risks. Pacemakers, transorbital stimulation, etc can all be REALLY bad.

Anyway, hope that helps.

pooflady wrote:I don't have chronic back pain but every year or so my back "goes out." Wonder if this would help that.

Let me know if you ever get an answer to that one backed by any evidence.

My back "goes out" too....

re: selective placement of pads.I have one of these and I just cut the foam to shape of self-stick pads and it works great.

SinnFein wrote:I found good reviews on this. My wife is CONSTANTLY complaining about her back. Frankly, I am sick of hearing it.

Debating whether I should get one of these.

Do it. I am getting one for my wife. The bone cracker charges me $25 for a 15 minute session using one of these stupid things. She says it helps.

editorkid wrote:Just so I know that my assumptions are right: This is worn, not placed around the back of an office chair, say?

If anyone finds a manual anywhere on the 'Net, I'll buy you a beer if I ever meet you.

I'm figuring it should come with a manual. If not perhaps a simple visit to your family doctor to have him explaion how to use it? Just a thought

jhklomanii wrote:OKKEEEEEEEEEE ------ I am just a little irritated here. I have a REAL perscritpion TENS unit that is perfectly good. I don't need it anymore. I am unable to sell it on Amazon or eBay, etc., becuae it is a PRESCRIPTION Only device. I am just a little disturbed that Woot can advertise this with descriptives that include TENS in the description use and purpose etc.

Amazon and eBay don't set Woot policy.

in for one

hope it werks

Direct from the manual:

When To Order New Pads
The electrode pads are disposable and use an adhesive that will dry after prolonged usage or
storage. Pads should be replaced when they lose their adhesive quality, or you sense a change in
stimulation sensation. If you doubt the integrity of the pads, order new pads.

CuzzinMerl wrote:Does anybody know what will happen to you if you wear/use this device while being waterboarded? I need to know, the sooner the better. And does it only work on anatomically correct spines?

The control unit IS NOT waterproof. Don't use if the control unit or the stimulating pads would have any chance of being exposed to water. 1) It could ruin the control unit and 2) if the pads and surrounding area get wet it would disperse the stimulation and reduce, if not negate, the benefits of stimulation.

You spine "does not" have to be anatomically correct. In fact you don't even have to use it on your back. You can place the self adhesive pads anywhere on your body you need pain relief and just leave the belt in the box. (I use mine on my shoulder)

dubnj11 wrote:I'm figuring it should come with a manual. If not perhaps a simple visit to your family doctor to have him explaion how to use it? Just a thought

Click for a copy of the
>Medisana User Manual

LIBEL? How is selling a TENS unit a defamation in any way?

nukeme70 wrote:Anyone know if this can be purchased using a medical Flex spending account? I would assume since band-aids and aspirin are covered, that there wouldn't be a problem with this, though I might have to send a detailed receipt when they ask me what a woot is.

To answer your question, YES. A flex spending account is used to purchase medical supplies and or therapy, ex: Tylenol is a medical supply, Dental Proceedures are a medically relavent use of the Flex, and this unit is considered a medical therapy, so yes, your Flex account will cover the cost (if you have that amount in your account)

What if you have mild arthritis in your lower back? and sometimes some sciatica down your left butt cheek and thigh? Will this help that pain?

I had my left hip replaced 15 years ago. Can I use it with a titanium hip joint?

ChrisCane wrote:TENS units, Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulators, to the best of my knowledge are FDA Class II medical devices and can only be sold with a prescription from an MD. I believe it is illegal to sell TENS units without a presciption.

Woot would be wise to stop this sale and not deliver to its customers.

EBAY pulled TENS units off its sites a while back.

FDA has many classifications for products that may appear similar, but this item could be in a category like this:


Product Classification Database
Device stimulator, nerve, transcutaneous, over-the-counter
Regulation Description Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulator for pain relief.
Definition Temporary relief of pain due to sore/aching muscles.
Regulation Medical Specialty Neurology
Review Panel Neurology
Product Code NUH
Submission Type 510(k)
Regulation Number 882.5890
Device Class 2
GMP Exempt? No
Third Party Review Not Third Party Eligible


(Not 3rd party eligible is subjective; your "good" plan may choose to reimburse for devices recommended by prescription despite one not being legally required.)

Go to http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfpcd/classification.cfm and type in TENS to search but note that being class ii doesn't mean rx is required.

I don't understand why anyone would use this bulky item instead of a regular TENS machine. I've been using a TENS for 20 years and it's been a life saver for me. You can buy one for approx. the same price as this item.

claybasket wrote:Direct from the manual:

When To Order New Pads
The electrode pads are disposable and use an adhesive that will dry after prolonged usage or
storage. Pads should be replaced when they lose their adhesive quality, or you sense a change in
stimulation sensation. If you doubt the integrity of the pads, order new pads.

"Prolonged usage" of the electrode pads is usually less than a week for me. It's very costly, but worth every penny if you have severe lower back pain.

I had one of these many years ago they do work well but in the hands of one slightly irresponsible adult and his two young teen boys caused enough trouble to cause the not amused wife to dispose of the unit

joebeimon wrote:That's my point, people, do not think this is something to play with. It can put you into deep spasm and pain that will cost you $$$$. But, do what you want. I learned my lesson years ago and that is why I am a detractor. If you are on a pain med and you use this thing and turn it up, it WILL put you down and I would not call that Nirvana.

i could also die in a motorcycle accident, and the statistics on the chances of that happening are probably much higher. Many medications also carry the chance of serious risk and side effects, but they are still used. You cant just stay away from something because there is a small risk. And when stupid people do stupid stuff that either hurts or kills them.... Darwinism!

i use a tens machine which is similar to this and works wonders!!

dvinedesigns.etsy.com

If these are like the pads that came with my tens unit from the Dr., you can put a drop or two of water on the pad and it will rehydrate it and it will last a bit longer. I'm in for 1 as a spare.

EltonNoway wrote:The control unit IS NOT waterproof. Don't use if the control unit or the stimulating pads would have any chance of being exposed to water. 1) It could ruin the control unit and 2) if the pads and surrounding area get wet it would disperse the stimulation and reduce, if not negate, the benefits of stimulation.

You spine "does not" have to be anatomically correct. In fact you don't even have to use it on your back. You can place the self adhesive pads anywhere on your body you need pain relief and just leave the belt in the box. (I use mine on my shoulder)

You should go google "joke"

catheew wrote:LBP sufferer 15+ years (L3-L4-L5-S1 bulges & tears). There are so many things you have to do to maintain a healthy back, but my inversion table is an important tool. I hang inverted for ~20+ min 3-4 times a week. Usually I experience a 'self adjustment' (back popping) when inverted due to my back being in traction which creates space for the discs to recover/heal. I feel like it has greatly helped with blood circulation in the bad area. Stick with it...also try doing short sets (5-10 reps) of various abdominal excercises while inverted. In a day, you'll feel a difference...in a month you'll see a difference.

I agree. An inversion table saved my lower back from surgery. I'm now experiencing consistent back spasms in my lats due to neck arthritis. Will a TENS unit do anything in this area or is it really limited to the lower back?

idonwannaname wrote:FDA has many classifications for products that may appear similar, but this item could be in a category like this:


Product Classification Database
Device stimulator, nerve, transcutaneous, over-the-counter
Regulation Description Transcutaneous electrical nerve stimulator for pain relief.
Definition Temporary relief of pain due to sore/aching muscles.
Regulation Medical Specialty Neurology
Review Panel Neurology
Product Code NUH
Submission Type 510(k)
Regulation Number 882.5890
Device Class 2
GMP Exempt? No
Third Party Review Not Third Party Eligible


(Not 3rd party eligible is subjective; your "good" plan may choose to reimburse for devices recommended by prescription despite one not being legally required.)

Go to http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfpcd/classification.cfm and type in TENS to search but note that being class ii doesn't mean rx is required.

"Third Party Review Eligible" has nothing to do with insurance and reimbursement; it refers to a type of review process to get the device cleared by FDA so it can even be sold in the first place.

And yes, this woot does appear to fall under this product code; however, I don't know if this particular model was actually cleared...

CuzzinMerl wrote:Does anybody know what will happen to you if you wear/use this device while being waterboarded? I need to know, the sooner the better. And does it only work on anatomically correct spines?

trippntulsa wrote:No, absolutly no water use

Well, CuzzinMerl, I don't know how it feels while BEING waterboarded, but I know that when I'm waterboarding someone, I find that the bare ends of a lamp wire (Jack Bauer style) works best. That way you can pull it off. Throwing in the whole toaster never lets you get the info you need.

This is the worst woot ever because people actually believe this piece of garbage works.

Hello... P L A C E B O !

Of course your Chrio/PT is going to tell you it works. Oh, and make sure you "come back 2 or 3 times a week for treatment for the next year, then we'll reassess your condition and take it from there."

You can put most Chiros in the same bucket as auto mechanics.

Sepeaking of which, I heard woot is selling headlight fluid tomorrow - I'm in for three bottles!!!

20 bucks through Amazon...

I agree with the therapist. This is not something most people strap on without a doctors recommendation.

waacodemon wrote:
You can use the pad only one time.
So, seein as i would have to use this daily, seems to be a big money pit?

No -- if you keep the pads clean (by keeping them covered when not in use, and only applying them to clean skin) they will last for quite a while. It might be $20 every couple of months, maybe less if you can find alternative pads. But if you have serious tension issues you'll be glad to pay.

From the manual, linked somewhere above:

2. Be sure to put the storage liners on the pads when not using your MEDISANA® Back Pain
Relief System. You may use the storage liners provided. Replace the pads on your support belt if they no longer stick to your skin or to the belt.

For most strains and pains cold is the best answer as heat only increases inflammation. Gel packs of the type that you put into
the freezer should be used in 2o minute increments. This is safe
and will offset nerve problems (pinched nerves) as well as joint problems (sprains and arthritis).

I have had a couple back surgeries and during Physical Therapy a TENS unit is very helpful to reduce muscle pain. I will contact my therapist to find out if this is a good idea for someone in my shoes.

These are great. Tried a similar one at my pain specialists office, but insurance would not cover it. This is cheaper than my co-pay would be. My other 4 lead Tens unit cost 400 & this one is way easier to wear around. I am tired of having lead wires sticking out of my pants! ahuhu
Cant wait to try this. I have had constant pain since my back surgeries failed 5 years ago due to an accident in 2002. Tens units really help to alleviate the pain or just screw the sensors up to where the brain cannot identify what is pain & what is an impulse from the machine so its relief while you are wearing it & it sometimes lasts for a little while afterwards too. So surprised & pleased to see this item on here!