Lithium Polymer cells are 1.0v at nominal voltage and 1.6v at peak (fully-charged) voltage. Assuming that this pack is 3 cells wired in series, it's peak voltage is actually 4.8v, but given that its capacity is 18,000mah, it's probably 6-9 cells wired in clusters of 3 in series, then wired together in parallel... if that makes any sense to you guys... anyhoo, don't drop this thing under 3.0v... I fly big electric RC helicopters (ie.. I'm a super nerd) and my helicopters run on 44.4v LiPo packs at 5,000mah capacity...

You want links here's stinkin links

Amazon $278
http://tinyurl.com/pcr75b

Costco good specs $199
http://tinyurl.com/r7ywb9

www.xpalpower.com

bradw76 wrote:
Another battery at http://www.batterygeek.net/v/vspfiles/Super_CPAP_Battery_Pack_222Wh.asp is $435, rated at 222Wh capacity and 12V. If I'm doing the math right, thats 18500mAH, so it's about the same as this, but this one is 1/4 the price.

That math is wrong. This battery is about 66WH as described above. Some of the pages advertising it say 70WH which is about the same. The CPAP battery has about 3x the capacity and is presumably larger. You can't go just by MAH. You have to take voltage into account.

Here is a 150WH battery for $200:

http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html

Again, better make sure it produces the right voltage for your CPAP.

yoheezie wrote:Lithium Polymer cells are 1.0v at nominal voltage and 1.6v at peak (fully-charged) voltage.

No!!! 3.7v nominal, 4.1v charged. I don't know what you're thinking of, maybe nimh (1.2v nominal).

phr wrote:No!!! 3.7v nominal, 4.1v charged. I don't know what you're thinking of, maybe nimh (1.2v nominal).

Correct again,

Running a Li-poly cell below 2.7 V will damage the cell. Anything below 3.0 volts shortens the cells life. Most Li-poly chargers cut off at 4.1 to 4.2 volts as anything above 4.235 volts is damaging and dangerous. Overcharging a Li-poly battery will likely result in explosion and/or fire.

Can anyone find the Equivalent Lithium Content (ELC) rating for the XP18000? Like others, I am concerned about trying to fly with this product.

The TSA site indicates that the product needs to have an ELC lower than 25 grams:
http://safetravel.dot.gov/definitions.html#lithium_ion

One of the testimonials on the XPAL site implies there is no problem:
http://www.xpalpower.com/us/images/testimonials/07.jpg
... but when was the last time you trusted a testimonial on a manufacturer's page?

bjpeterson1 wrote:Can anyone find the Equivalent Lithium Content (ELC) rating for the XP18000? Like others, I am concerned about trying to fly with this product.

The TSA site indicates that the product needs to have an ELC lower than 25 grams:
http://safetravel.dot.gov/definitions.html#lithium_ion

One of the testimonials on the XPAL site implies there is no problem:


http://www.xpalpower.com/us/images/testimonals/07.jpg
... but when was the last time you trusted a testimonial on a manufacturer's page?

From the XPALpower.com website FAQ
Are the new Energi To Go power packs travel safe?
Yes , the new power packs can be transported in the belly of the plane or as carry-on cargo. Because the Energi To Go products contain a safe amount of lithium, offer a power management system and are encased with no outer contact points, they are considered safe and allowed on all flights.

XPAL is an Energi to go device.

zyclon wrote:better check out the consumer reviews on amazon before you buy !!!!!

http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-ER-DVD-Universal-Battery-Charger/dp/B00006JM74/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1252905184&sr=8-8

that one is a different battery pack

This is what put me over the edge to buy some. It was not clear in the specs.
The 8000XP and 18000XP are the only Power packs that can charge three devices at the same time.

The USB output is designed for 5v specifically and used for all 5v devices, such as cell phones, mp3, and Bluetooth.

The 9-12v output is for portable DVDs, portable printers and satellite towers.
The 16-20v is designed for laptops.


I'm thinking that with an Inverter, one could use the 12VDC to have 120VAC, I'd calculate how much but it's too late at night and would depend on the Inverter size.
Size does matter. This is an amazing device for $99.

rslong wrote:From the XPALpower.com website FAQ
Are the new Energi To Go power packs travel safe?
Yes , the new power packs can be transported in the belly of the plane or as carry-on cargo. Because the Energi To Go products contain a safe amount of lithium, offer a power management system and are encased with no outer contact points, they are considered safe and allowed on all flights.

I must be blind. Where did you find a FAQ on the site?

The more I look into the specs of this, the more I believe that this thing will in fact be fine for travel.

dabighop wrote:No, but this would help if it was made out of meat instead of lithium ion.

lithium-polymer

Somebody buy these things before the methheads hear about it, or how many hits does 18000 mAh translate into.

The Safe Travel website (US Dept of Transportation) says:

For personal use, there is generally no restriction on the number of spare batteries allowed in carry-on baggage. This is the case for cell phone batteries, "hearing aid" button cells, and AA batteries/AAA batteries available in retail stores, as well as almost all standard laptop computer batteries.
See "Larger Batteries" to find out about more powerful batteries, such as extended-life "universal batteries" and batteries designed for professional audio-visual applications.

and

You are allowed one larger lithium ion battery installed in a device, plus up to 2 spare larger lithium ion batteries. These are in addition to any smaller lithium ion batteries. For smaller lithium ion batteries, just follow the Basic rules.

and

Lithium ion batteries are the rechargeable batteries used in computers, cell phones, and other devices. "Larger" lithium ion batteries are rated between 100 and 300 watt-hours (8-25 g equivalent lithium content, or ELC.) Examples of these larger lithium ion batteries are pictured in the box below.

and

Equivalent Lithium Content (ELC). ELC is a measure by which lithium ion batteries are classified. 8 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 100 watt-hours. 25 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 300 watt-hours.
You can arrive at the number of watt-hours your battery provides if you know how many milliamp hours and volts your battery provides:
mAh/1000 x V = wh
Most lithium ion batteries marketed to consumers are below 100 watt-hours (8 grams ELC). If you are unsure of the watt-hour rating of your lithium ion battery, contact the manufacturer.

I quoted all of the material pertaining to "larger lithium batteries" in case this qualifies but by my calculations it doesn't seem to. 18000mAh/1000 * 5V= 90wh which puts this in the regular "lithium battery" category. And according to Safe Travel, travelers are permitted to have as many of these as they need.

This leaves me with some questions.

1)Why are some people giving numbers other than 90wh?

2)Why have several people very confidently stated that this isn't permitted on an airplane?

but most importantly can someone who understands both the technology and the regulations, please simply answer:

3)Is this permitted on a plane?

The 12v(or cig lighter) in my vehicle does not work. Is this a viable option for cell phone, gps, and a zune all with usb cables that i already have?

phr wrote:I think those specs are wrong, if you look at the product list that is the weight for the smaller 8000 mah unit. The 18000 mah unit weighs 17.5 oz which is about what I'd expect. As I said it is comparable to a 6 or 8 cell laptop pack. Don't forget that it also comes with an AC power brick for recharging, adding more travel weight.

I think this price is actually reasonable given that it's a name brand product that is pretty flexible. I'm thinking about it. I feel it is a little bit too small for use with a laptop (you can get a spare laptop pack instead that has about the same capacity without external cables and scaffolding) but it could be handy with my clunky old audio recorder. On the other hand I could just get a newer audio recorder that's less power hungry.

For cell phones I think it's useless unless your requirements are really extreme, or you use a balderah phone (*cough* iphone) where you can't swap batteries easily. Otherwise just get a spare pack or two for your phone and keep them charged, maybe with one of those 2 ounce, 3 dollar Dealextreme universal wall chargers.

you're right. that one is a different battery back. 18000 on woot is just over one pound

okay. so im on the brink of pulling the trigger on this one. seems like a ton of capacity, good price, and useful as hell for someone like me that travels a lot and carries a lot of gadgets. Couple questions that some of you may be able to help with. What I am wondering is a) can i charge multiple usb items at the same time (i.e. blackberry and pre) or is it just one at each voltage range... b) is that previous post about how dell disables charging unless you use a dell specific charger true?... and c) does it affect the health of the electronic device to feed it power that is roughly within range of the designed voltage?

Any thoughts?

reeb wrote:The 12v(or cig lighter) in my vehicle does not work. Is this a viable option for cell phone, gps, and a zune all with usb cables that i already have?

Why not spend $1 on the blown fuse or $10 on a new 12v receptacle or replace the broken or burnt out wire first?

LordG1313 wrote:okay. so im on the brink of pulling the trigger on this one. seems like a ton of capacity, good price, and useful as hell for someone like me that travels a lot and carries a lot of gadgets. Couple questions that some of you may be able to help with. What I am wondering is a) can i charge multiple usb items at the same time (i.e. blackberry and pre) or is it just one at each voltage range... b) is that previous post about how dell disables charging unless you use a dell specific charger true?... and c) does it affect the health of the electronic device to feed it power that is roughly within range of the designed voltage?

Any thoughts?

I'm not sure about Dell and their chargers. I would think that even if it didn't charge that it would act like a power adapter that you can get for use with a dead battery. I have seen several users that use their notebooks constantly plugged in because their battery is shot. If it has a Dell adapter available, I'd go for it. most electronics can tolerate a 5 to 10% variance in the source without causing harm because they use a power regulation circuit. A car for example can put out 12V nominal voltage and 13.5 volts when running without damaging electronics. Does your dell have a car adapter or is one available? If so you could use the 12VDC output, one of three output voltages available.

bjpeterson1 wrote:I must be blind. Where did you find a FAQ on the site?

The more I look into the specs of this, the more I believe that this thing will in fact be fine for travel.

http://www.xpalpower.com/us/support/qa/technology.html

It's under "the technology" hidden pretty well.

carbonium wrote:Why not spend $1 on the blown fuse or $10 on a new 12v receptacle or replace the broken or burnt out wire first?

tried that already. can't figure out the problem and think this might be useful camping and other general uses. thanks for the advise.

reeb wrote:The 12v(or cig lighter) in my vehicle does not work. Is this a viable option for cell phone, gps, and a zune all with usb cables that i already have?

It should work fine, it has a USB output, so I don't know how many USBs you can charge at once. maybe get a hub.
It also has a 12VDC outlet with a cable to fit GPS etc.
and and 19VDC output via cable for notebooks.
Somebody has to ask the hard question, Does your Cig Lighter work when the engine is running?

reeb wrote:tried that already. can't figure out the problem and think this might be useful camping and other general uses. thanks for the advise.

Get a length of 14 awg, automotive wire and splice the wire where it comes out of the fusebox and replace the wire. ??

rslong wrote:It should work fine, it has a USB output, so I don't know how many USBs you can charge at once. maybe get a hub.
It also has a 12VDC outlet with a cable to fit GPS etc.
and and 19VDC output via cable for notebooks.
Somebody has to ask the hard question, Does your Cig Lighter work when the engine is running?

no

prateeko wrote:Does storing this type of battery in the freezer (when not in use) extend it's overall lifespan or is this one of the newer types where you can leave it sitting around for a while and it won't lose its charge?

Do not freeze any battery, this should sit on the shelf for years and not lose it's charge.

reeb wrote:no

It has one wire for power and one for ground. It may go to a shut down relay that has a problem. You could replace the wire, even if you have to go to the battery just remember to use a 15A fuse close to the battery and use size 14 awg wire. If your not comfortable fixing it yourself, it's okay, we can't all be Mr fixits. A car stereo shop should fix you up fairly cheaply. Get an estimate first. I can't see where this item would be a bad investment with all the tech we have around us. I also can't imagine not having a cigarette lighter adapter.

wdhurt wrote:anyone know how many full cycles this can handle before it dies?

Does it not say 500 cycles in the specs listed?

rslong wrote:It has one wire for power and one for ground. It may go to a shut down relay that has a problem. You could replace the wire, even if you have to go to the battery just remember to use a 15A fuse close to the battery and use size 14 awg wire. If your not comfortable fixing it yourself, it's okay, we can't all be Mr fixits. A car stereo shop should fix you up fairly cheaply. Get an estimate first. I can't see where this item would be a bad investment with all the tech we have around us. I also can't imagine not having a cigarette lighter adapter.

i will check it to it. this sounds like good advise.

thank you,

reeb

Holy carp you guys, your comments tonight have me laughing out loud and considering it's 4am and my wife and kids are sleeping... ;)


That said... I have a red blinking LED that I took out of an optical mouse box 9 years ago. I think it takes around .5mA? How long will this power back keep that running?

sspivack wrote:The Safe Travel website (US Dept of Transportation) says:

For personal use, there is generally no restriction on the number of spare batteries allowed in carry-on baggage. This is the case for cell phone batteries, "hearing aid" button cells, and AA batteries/AAA batteries available in retail stores, as well as almost all standard laptop computer batteries.
See "Larger Batteries" to find out about more powerful batteries, such as extended-life "universal batteries" and batteries designed for professional audio-visual applications.

and

You are allowed one larger lithium ion battery installed in a device, plus up to 2 spare larger lithium ion batteries. These are in addition to any smaller lithium ion batteries. For smaller lithium ion batteries, just follow the Basic rules.

and

Lithium ion batteries are the rechargeable batteries used in computers, cell phones, and other devices. "Larger" lithium ion batteries are rated between 100 and 300 watt-hours (8-25 g equivalent lithium content, or ELC.) Examples of these larger lithium ion batteries are pictured in the box below.

and

Equivalent Lithium Content (ELC). ELC is a measure by which lithium ion batteries are classified. 8 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 100 watt-hours. 25 grams of equivalent lithium content are equal to about 300 watt-hours.
You can arrive at the number of watt-hours your battery provides if you know how many milliamp hours and volts your battery provides:
mAh/1000 x V = wh
Most lithium ion batteries marketed to consumers are below 100 watt-hours (8 grams ELC). If you are unsure of the watt-hour rating of your lithium ion battery, contact the manufacturer.

I quoted all of the material pertaining to "larger lithium batteries" in case this qualifies but by my calculations it doesn't seem to. 18000mAh/1000 * 5V= 90wh which puts this in the regular "lithium battery" category. And according to Safe Travel, travelers are permitted to have as many of these as they need.

This leaves me with some questions.

1)Why are some people giving numbers other than 90wh?

P = I X E Ohms law hasn't changed so they a stupid.

P = power expressed in Amps. 18 Amps (18000ma)
I = current expressed in Watts 90 Watts
E = energy expressed in Volts 5
5 x 18 + 90

2)Why have several people very confidently stated that this isn't permitted on an airplane?

Once again Stupid

http://www.xpalpower.com/us/support/qa/technology.html
Next to last pargraph,
Q. Are the new Energi To Go® power packs travel safe?
A. Yes , the new power packs can be transported in the belly of the plane or as carry-on cargo. Because the Energi To Go® products contain a safe amount of lithium, offer a power management system and are encased with no outer contact points, they are considered safe and allowed on all flights.


but most importantly can someone who understands both the technology and the regulations, please simply answer:

3)Is this permitted on a plane?

You decide, Life has to have a little risk.
There are no guarantees that some dork at the airport won't rule against you, but this is much like a back up battery for your notebook and I would stick to that story. and print out he specs to take with you. BTW this is a Lithium Polymer which contains a gel rather than a liquid which is more stable than Li-Ion.

rslong wrote:You decide, Life has to have a little risk.
There are no guarantees that some dork at the airport won't rule against you, but this is much like a back up battery for your notebook and I would stick to that story. and print out he specs to take with you. BTW this is a Lithium Polymer which contains a gel rather than a liquid which is more stable than Li-Ion.

Good Night

phr wrote:That math is wrong. This battery is about 66WH as described above. Some of the pages advertising it say 70WH which is about the same. The CPAP battery has about 3x the capacity and is presumably larger. You can't go just by MAH. You have to take voltage into account.

Here is a 150WH battery for $200:

http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html

Again, better make sure it produces the right voltage for your CPAP.

Can I connect this battery to a 200W inverter for my Dell laptop or mac book? Maybe there is a way to connect this battery to a charge controller and solar panel? It would make for a pretty cool solar battery if that worked. Does anyone have thoughts if these theories are possible? I have read the posts and the threads, but neither have scared me from making this idea a reality yet. Oh except that their isn't a connector for the inverter. Back to the drawing board.

FOR MAC OWNERS ... from the Q&A:

Can Energi To Go® XP Product support Apple laptop?

The XP18000 can support the Macbook series of laptops from a power perspective, however we are still working with Apple to be able to provide a tip or connectivity solution.

Gman2009 wrote:Can I connect this battery to a 200W inverter for my Dell laptop? Maybe there is a way to connect this battery to a charge controller and solar panel? It would make for a pretty cool solar battery if that worked. Does anyone have thoughts if this theory is possible? I have read the posts and the threads haven't scared me from making this idea a reality yet.

You have a 200 watt inverter and the current draw will be close to 15 Amps and could peak at close to 20 amps depending on the inverter and the load. So it won't work on this Woot can only handle a few amps maximum.

The battery you mentioned in the link here--> http://www.bixnet.com/unpowbat.html outputs 16 or 19 volts so you'll most likely burn out your inverter pushing it above it's 13.8 volt rating. Not to mention that battery can only output 4.75 amps Max.

prateeko wrote:Does storing this type of battery in the freezer (when not in use) extend it's overall lifespan or is this one of the newer types where you can leave it sitting around for a while and it won't lose its charge?

No, don't freeze it. This passage is from the Q&A:

What temperature range do the new Energi To Go® power packs work best in?

The new Energi To Go® products are rated at temperatures from 32-113°F. We do not recommend that they are left in vehicles for long periods of time during the winter or summer months, as exposure to extreme temperatures may reduce their functionality.

What the heck is a "mathematical control circuit"!?

This is a rare treat these days - a new woot item that just came out as opposed to refurbs or obsolete items - reminds me of the early woot days.

This came out in July 2009 - see the unveiling announcment for yourself: click here

wdhurt wrote:anyone know how many full cycles this can handle before it dies?

I believe the duty cycle stated is 500 cycles. That should do for quite a while.

Any idea if there are FAA/Airline/Airport rules against taking this thing with you on a flight?

evereddie wrote:Good luck gettin' on a flight with this.

Under current regulations you are allowed to carry-on an unlimited number of 100 Wh or less batteries. These are 90 Wh.

http://safetravel.dot.gov/documents/airline_passengers_and_batteries.pdf

Anyone care to make a prediction of how many hours use I might get powering a Haier HLT71 - 7" digital TV (for use during hurricane related power outages)? The TV has a 12V input and the A/C charger indicates 12V output @ 1500 mA. My calculation comes out at about 5 hours considering the power consumption is 18W.
I'm thinking one of the battery boosters might be a better buy in the same price range for this purpose http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SQTYG