kooosh wrote:When fluoride in toothpaste became widespread is NOT controversial. It was in the 1950s.
Not controversial? Yes, but not in suport of your claim. I just checked with my sister (a dentist) and a neightbor (an orthodontist), and both agree with my original statemennt: that fluoridated toothpaste got widepsread use only in the late 60's, and really early 70's. Do some research before making absolutist declarations. COnsider these factors:
1) Just because one brand, Crest, had fluoride, doesn't mean that it had widespread use for a long period. Certainly not enough to do widescale longitudinal statistical studies. I know because I design such studies and am part of several public health project.
2) Colgate, which has been making toothpaste since the 1890's, didn't include fluoride until 1968. They are and were one of the world's largest toothpaste makers. If they didn't use it, do you really think that it was widespread and accepted as the norm?
3) The main reason was that Crest had a patent pending, again impeding widespread use. Simply put, patent exclusivity prevents widespread diffusion of any technology
"Richard E. HAGER, Carroll R. REISS, assignors to Procter & Gamble Company, Cincinnati, Ohio: "Dentifrice containing a stannous compound and a carboxylated alkyl cellulose ether", US Patent 2,839,448; filed Feb. 9, 1955; pat. June 17, 1958"
4) You tend to quote Wikipedia without attribution. Well, if you read carefully, you'd see that it confirms that fluoridated toothpaste wasn't in widespread use in Europe until the 70's. There's no reason to believe that the situation was different in the US since Crest also marketed in Europe. And unlike you, Wikipedia actually provided a source reference by Pizzo et al -- in a respected medical journal.
"...most European countries have experienced substantial declines in tooth decay without its use, primarily due to the introduction of fluoride toothpaste in the 1970s."
And btw, don't bother trying to use this quote to prove your claim that water fluoridation is useless in light of fluoridated toothpaste. It doesn't say that at all. Just check the actual journal article. Also note the word "primarily" in that quote. IN other words, there are other factors -- and according to the vast majority of research, water fluoridation is helpful in preventing cavities, including those in developed countries. Since you're so fond of taking info from Wikipedia, read the text and you'd see where the available evidence points.
Considering these facts -- supported by actual links -- I tend to believe my sister and neighbor, and my inferences based on published research. Namely, the population was not widely exposed to fluoridated toothpaste until the 70's, just as Wikipedia and Pizzo wrote.
And btw, if you have reputable (i.e. academic) sources which unequivocably states that there was WIDESPREAD EXPOSURE in the 1950's, feel free to pass it this way. Otherwise, you simply made an erroneous inference based on the fact that fluoridated toothpaste was AVAILABLE in the 50's. Once again, AVAILABILITY does not equate WIDESPREAD USE, especially when it comes to chemicals.
COnsidering the above, the decline of tooth decay from 1940-1970 can be attirbuted to water fluoridation, and not the use of fluoridated toothpaste as you had claimed (read your own posts carefully, word for word). Recent research of undeveloped regions that don't use toothpaste supports that claim. So yes, contrary to your claim (quoted below), brief dental exposure to fluoridated water (i.e. swishing) does have a positive effect. Refer to the list of references I posted previously. In short, water fluoridation prevents cavities. And public health experts clearly think that it still has a place in America, where some regions can't afford toothpaste or practice poor oral hygiene.
FYI, here are your claims, verbatim, courtesy of bryguyf69. Your second quote is especially wrong, since there is no other way to explain the results in areas that don't use fluoridated toothpaste.
Koosh wrote at 2:18am, "are you one of those silly people who still believes that fluoride in your water actually does ANYTHING to prevent tooth decay?"
kooosh wrote at 2:20am, "Drinking water or briefly swishing water with a tiny amount of fluoride does nothing. This would seem to be common sense."