iboyindigo wrote:according to ATI's website Win 7 will not be supported till 1st quarter 2010 or later...

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/compatibility/windows-7/en-us/Details.aspx?type=Hardware&p=ATI%20TV%20Wonder%20650%20PCI%20TV%20Tuner%20Card&v=ATI&uid=100-715331&pf=1&pi=6&s=tv%20tuner&os=32-bit

Thanks Woot! n 4 1 PCIe

Doesn't look like this is supported under Linux, so MythTV is a no-go. I'd have been in for three if it were.

db

veedub91 wrote:Well from what woot says its a dual tuner. But if you look at the specs for the 650PCI not the PCIe verison on ati or diamond it says its only a single tuner.

It actually says a single hybrid tuner which acts as a dual tuner. One analog and one digital, that's why there are two inputs.

veedub91 wrote:Well from what woot says its a dual tuner. But if you look at the specs for the 650PCI not the PCIe verison on ati or diamond it says its only a single tuner.

The PCI has two coaxial inputs which mean theres a seperate input for digital and a seperate one for analog TV. Whereas the PCI-e tuner has only one Coaxial (F) input which means its a hybrid tuner. Both are capable of NTSC/ATSC/QAM unlike some others over here are thinking.

btvsphobicphobe wrote:I've only got a laptop - can an enclosure be found for it and will it work with a toshiba satellite?

Yes, you can purchase a new enclosure for under $200 (example) while a used enclosure can be found for much less, say $50, on eBay (example). You will need a separate screen to use one of these enclosures but that can be found on sale for under $100 new!

What is great about these enclosures is that you will still be free to use your laptop for something else like emailing or surfing the 'net while watching HDTV on the enclosure and a cheap LCD screen!

In for 1. Software decoder hopefully will be fine as I just bought a new HD 4670.

I sense the lack of remote is going to be a real pain. Considering buying the Logitech MX Air mouse when it gets cheap.

If you look here on the 650 PCI spec sheet it claims to support Clear-QAM http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonder650/PCI/index.html

digitoast wrote:FYI, folks:

The 650PCI does NOT have clearQAM support! You must buy the 650PCI-express if you want clearQAM.

The lack of clearQAM on the PCI is well documented on many reputable sites. Ex: the first google hit for "ati tv wonder 650 qam" returns http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=950104

And if you look at ATI's own product description:
http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonder650/index.html.
You'll notice: "ClearQAM cable TV^2" referencing the fine print:
2: ClearQAM digital TV... ...Supported on ATI TV Wonder 650 Combo PCI Express

Edit, 1048pm-PST: (disclaimer). I own both the 650PCIe and 650PCI. My 650PCI will not pull clearQAM signals. Seems that some people are reporting success, but my own experience says otherwise.

Does it work with Windows 7 Media Center?

jcyochum wrote:I think he was referring to the PCIE x1 card working in a PCIE x16 slot. In which case the PCIE x1 will work in the bigger PCIE x16 slot. A PCI card WILL NOT work in a PCIE SLOT PERIOD!

More importantly, PCI and PCIe are two completely different buses. There are no adapters to translate one to the other. PCI is the older parallel bus that replaced ISA, EISA and local bus. PCIe is a high speed serial bus that has no electrical resemblance to PCI. A PCIe x1 slot has the equivalent bandwidth of a PCI 32-bit slot. PCIe is abstracted at the software level to look like PCI and maintain compatibility with existing software etc. In reality, PCIe bears a closer resemblance to SATA than PCI.

drei22 wrote:I use the PCi version in my computer with free ORB software (www.orb.com) and it is so money. I watch TV and have DVR functionality over the internet without any extra hardware like a Slingbox or Hava. Also it works in Windows 7 with no issues.

hmmm... i'll have to try orb... Windows Media Center 7 is no bueno with my 650 PCi... It wouldn't find drivers, i installed the Vista Drivers, and it KINDA played, then would give me buffering errors... But that was with Media Center.... Haven't tried Orb in a year or so... but ill give it a whirl...

btvsphobicphobe wrote:I've only got a laptop - can an enclosure be found for it and will it work with a toshiba satellite?

I cannot think of any way you could make an enclosure, it would need a motherboard at the very least.
Better to wait for one of these to come up again on woot:
http://www.woot.com/Blog/ViewEntry.aspx?Id=9854

I got it a few weeks ago and it works surprisingly well.

dctrvenkman wrote:....So if you want SD and HD simultaneously either find the fix or look into the 650PCIe which most vendors offer in a dual tuner design.

There is enough confusion about these two tuner cards already without adding more.

In several posts, the term SD seems to be used when the writer is referring to analog video or analog tuners. SD (standard definition) usually refers to the lower resolution digital broadcasts (in 4/3 format) as opposed to HD digital broadcasts.

As much as I like acronyms, to a lot of us SD still refers to digital video. the terms NTSC or Analog mean the old TV broadcast system and aren't ambiguous.

Just in case anyone is wondering about Windows 7 support, there is none according to ATI. Here is a direct quote from http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/GPU39_ATITVWonderDrivers.aspx

ATI TV Wonder™ Driver Availability for Windows 7® Back

Last Updated
11/20/2009

Article Number
GPU-39

Article Description:
This article provides information about ATI TV Wonder™ driver availability for Windows 7®.

Advisory:
Drivers for the ATI TV Wonder™ HD 600/650 series and All in Wonder™ HD series are expected to be available in the first quarter of 2010.

The driver availability date is subject to change without notice at the discretion of AMD and/or the affiliated AMD Certified or OEM Partners.

Due to the incompatibility between Microsoft Windows 7® and ATI’s legacy TV Tuner products (ATI Theater 550 Pro chipsets and older), driver support will not be available.

This article applies to the following configuration(s):

Hardware
ATI TV Wonder™ Series
ATI All in Wonder™ HD Series
Operating System
Windows 7® 32bit
Windows 7® 64bit

first time wooter

N 4 2

these plus HDHomerun, now i can record all 4 broadcast channels at once woot woot!

Probably already mentioned, but if you're after QAM or OTA HD signal, the stream is already digital, so there is no need for an on-board MPEG encoder.

If your source is analog (like from a DTV converter or a cable box COAX/Composite/S-Vid output) you will absolutely want the onboard encoder as it's a highly CPU-intensive exercise to digitize video on the fly.

So I can use the S-Video use my TV as a display, right?

From ATI Site for PCI Version:
Clear-QAM is supported in Windows Vista® OS with ATI Catalyst Media Center™ build 1.0.3202 and higher.


http://www.amd.com/us/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-hd-650-pci-ntsc-atsc.aspx

btvsphobicphobe wrote:I've only got a laptop - can an enclosure be found for it and will it work with a toshiba satellite?

Yes, you can find enclosures for pci cards:

http://www.arstech.com/item-Enclosure-Dbl-length-for-3-ISA-PCI-cards-isax3b2.html

http://www.bizrate.com/io-controllers/external-pci-enclosure/

According to AMD's support matrix the 650PCI and the 600PCI-e are the same EXCEPT the 650PCI does hardware encoding and picture/sound enhancements.

BOTH cards support Clear QAM despite several other posts

http://www.amd.com/us/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-product-matrix.aspx

The PCI card is by far the better card of the two if you have the slot available.

digitoast wrote:You missed the ATI reference that I also included, with a fine print footnote saying that only the PCI-express version will support clearQAM. Look for footnote #2 on the page:
http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonder650/index.html

The 650 PCI Does support ClearQAM. The link you posted was created around 2006, the link http://www.amd.com/us/products/pctv/tv-wonder-tuners/Pages/tv-wonder-hd-650-pci-ntsc-atsc.aspx (which is newer) clearly states the following:

Clear-QAM is unscrambled digital TV over cable. Digital TV channel support is dependent upon your local cable provider. Please contact your cable provider for a listing of digital channels supported in your area. Clear-QAM is supported in Windows Vista® OS with ATI Catalyst Media Center™ build 1.0.3202 and higher.

I know. I viewed the source code for both pages, the first link's scripting is copyright 2005 and is version 2.0. The second link's script source is copyright 2008. It uses version 2.5. Therefore I am willing to guarantee 100% that the ATI 650 PCI supports clear-QAM and is a better IMO.

Don't forget, ATI is notoriously bad for not updating pages/information on their website!

digitoast wrote:You missed the ATI reference that I also included, with a fine print footnote saying that only the PCI-express version will support clearQAM. Look for footnote #2 on the page:
http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonder650/index.html

Clear-QAM (unscrambled) Digital HD Cable with ATI Catalyst Media Center™ build 1.0.3202 and higher5

http://ati.amd.com/products/tvwonder650/pci/index.html

Its a software issue you are referring to, not a hardware one.

td118weir wrote:Just in case anyone is wondering about Windows 7 support, there is none according to ATI. Here is a direct quote from http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/GPU39_ATITVWonderDrivers.aspx

ATI TV Wonder™ Driver Availability for Windows 7® Back

Last Updated
11/20/2009

Article Number
GPU-39

Article Description:
This article provides information about ATI TV Wonder™ driver availability for Windows 7®.

Advisory:
Drivers for the ATI TV Wonder™ HD 600/650 series and All in Wonder™ HD series are expected to be available in the first quarter of 2010.

The driver availability date is subject to change without notice at the discretion of AMD and/or the affiliated AMD Certified or OEM Partners.

Due to the incompatibility between Microsoft Windows 7® and ATI’s legacy TV Tuner products (ATI Theater 550 Pro chipsets and older), driver support will not be available.

This article applies to the following configuration(s):

Hardware
ATI TV Wonder™ Series
ATI All in Wonder™ HD Series
Operating System
Windows 7® 32bit
Windows 7® 64bit

However, after doing some research it appears that the card will work with WMC using the Vista drivers.

They are planning on releasing Win 7 drivers eventually.

acraigl wrote:
...If your source is analog (like from a DTV converter or a cable box COAX/Composite/S-Vid output) you will absolutely want the onboard encoder as it's a highly CPU-intensive exercise to digitize video on the fly.

It's not that you can't digitize analog video without a hardware decoder, it depends upon what else you might want to do at the same time and how much horsepower your machine has.

The one thing you DO need a hardware decoder in a tuner card is if you intend the tuner to operate under XP Media Center 2005.

I've run the old ATI HDTV Wonder (no analog decoder) for years with an dual core 3800+ and 1 G of memory and never had a problem recording analog material.

acraigl wrote:Probably already mentioned, but if you're after QAM or OTA HD signal, the stream is already digital, so there is no need for an on-board MPEG encoder.

If your source is analog (like from a DTV converter or a cable box COAX/Composite/S-Vid output) you will absolutely want the onboard encoder as it's a highly CPU-intensive exercise to digitize video on the fly.

Thanks! All I wanted to do was use this for OTA HD so I can cancel my basic cable package, and this now sounds perfect since previous posters have said both can handle OTA and QAM HD. After Woot lets us know what (for certain) they are selling I should be in for a PCIe.

makshim wrote:Is this a half size PCI-express card?

The card is, yes, but good luck finding a half-size bracket to replace the full-size one.

in for 2. Bought one of each. I'm going to be building a media center soon, so i figure i'll move the better one in that box after playing with them for a while.

Ok so do i need to install the Catalyst Media Center package if i'm running Win7 Ultimate in order to get Clear-QAM in media center?

stevenporter3 wrote:A few questions:
1: Which would be better for my set up? (2.83 quad core, 9500gt, 4g ram)
2: will it be a problem to run with my 9500gt
3: Which would be a better buy for my setup, considering they aren't a problem mixing ati/nvidia

1: PCI-E is faster, but is only compatible on newer motherboards. 2.83 quad core is pretty new so there is a very very good chance it will be compatible. PCI will be for sure without a doubt compatible, because it is the older technology.

2: No, not a problem at all, not even close they don't even do the same thing. One processes graphics and video the other encodes/decodes and captures it branding won't matter.

3: PCI-E if you can find out if you motherboard supports it for sure, it probably does.

What about video drivers? If I'm running a nVidia video card will anything screw up if I install the ATI tuner?

i am on a college campus---will this work on my apple laptop??

btvsphobicphobe wrote:I've only got a laptop - can an enclosure be found for it and will it work with a toshiba satellite?

That enclosure would be a desktop PC case with a motherboard, so no, you can't use it with a laptop, but there are plenty of tuners out there designed for laptops.

pleasekopimi wrote:What about video drivers? If I'm running a nVidia video card will anything screw up if I install the ATI tuner?

The tuner and video display are separate devices and are not interdependent.

Douginaz wrote:The tuner and video display are separate devices and are not interdependent.

Mkay, thanks!

ruthierose wrote:i am on a college campus---will this work on my apple laptop??

Of course not. It's a PCI card. Look at it. Where would you plug that into a laptop, on campus or off?

I definitely want at least one PCI. I am not sure whether I want to get an additional PCI or PCIE. Can I place an order for the PCI version and then come back and get another one later on?

Part of my problem is that I have the Biostar 128M TA790GX and there is an ATI 4850 in the master PCIE slot, which covers at least one of the PCI ports next to it. The fan of the 4850 would be right up against anything in the remaining PCI slot. I am not sure if that would affect the way the 4850 cools.

btvsphobicphobe wrote:I've only got a laptop - can an enclosure be found for it and will it work with a toshiba satellite?

umm - there may something like that, instead of that, you may just want to buy a USB device.. I got one for under about $50:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=usb+hdtv+tuner&oe=utf-8&cid=10759322069922568037&sa=title#p

DigitalSnow wrote:Yes, you can find enclosures for pci cards:

http://www.arstech.com/item-Enclosure-Dbl-length-for-3-ISA-PCI-cards-isax3b2.html

http://www.bizrate.com/io-controllers/external-pci-enclosure/

But the price along with the card will be more than a comparable USB tuner, so you wouldn't want to do this.

uthersOD wrote:So I can use the S-Video use my TV as a display, right?

Yes, if you have an s-video connector on your video card (or onboard video). No, if you mean the s-video connector on this card. Tuner cards are input, not output devices.