Somewhere in the instructions I beleive I'm supposed to consume three fingers of rye whiskey. Maybe in the dungeon.

Talesin wrote:I'm a networking professional and I've lost count of how many times I've gotten a contract to wire a house with proper structured cabling after the homeowners tried similar (if not identical) 'powerline' network adapters.

They tend to be unreliable at best from what I've been told, and had one client get tired of waiting for a file to transfer (at a whopping 20KB/s), and got into the habit of just using a thumbdrive instead. Another had to unplug theirs as it generated a steady stream of static when they were trying to listen to the radio.

I haven't bought a set myself, for obvious reasons, and would caution others against these.

I'm a senior consulting infrastructure architect and while I've never specified powerline devices professionally, I have been using these devices for my, and my parent's homes for years... with excellent results. Currently at home, I have one four port device connecting my detached workshop (it wasn't getting a strong enough WiFi signal), and my youngest son is using a four port device for his xBox 360 and a desktop with very good results (simply a matter of cost... we had the powerline devices in hand, but no Wifi adapter for his xBox or desktop.

At my Mom's house we use a earlier generation (10 Mbits) pair to connect a computer in the study at the far corner of the house which was getting very poor Wifi 'g' performance.

As for radio interference, I have not had AM or FM broadcast radio 'static' issues at all, and I regularly listen to to bands in my workshop, and in my office where our powerline master device is located.

Bottomline, while others may have different results, I've found them to be very convenient and quite useful where wifi was not working well enough. And it sure beats crawling around in an attic dragging Cat5 cables around. Of course if money is no object, one could certainly hire a wiring guy to drag the cables... but I'd bet my fellow 'wooters' do value a buck.

I'm in for two... one pair to 'upgrade' my Mom's older 10 Mbit devices, and and one to add a 'receiver' to my great room in order to stream NetFlix and other on-line content.

To state a few things that are large misconceptions:

-Disk capacity is rated in bytes.
-Throughput (ie: network speed) is rated in bits.

Mega (million) = M
Kilo (thousand) = K
Bytes = B
Bits = b

1 Byte (B) = 8 Bits
1 KiloByte (KB) = 1,024 Bytes (Not 1,000, because to express this in binary the closest thing to 1,000 is 2^10 which is 1,024)
1 MegaByte (MB) = 1,024 KB
1 MegaByte (MB) = 1,048,576 Bytes
1 MegaByte (MB) = 8,388,608 Bits

1,000 Megabits = 1 Gigabit (Gigabit Ethernet or gE)
1 Gigabit = 128 MegaBytes (MB)

Theoretical max throughput on gE is 128 MB/s.


Uncompressed 1080p24 HD Video is huge. Sadly gE alone cannot sustain the required throughput of uncompressed HD video. Want proof?

1080p24 is:
1920 x 1080 24/fps (frames per second)
1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels
If the signal was RGB you would have 3 bytes per pixel for a 24bit color depth (8*3=24)

So 2,073,600 * 3 = 6,220,800 Bytes per frame
At 24/fps it would be 6,220,800 * 24 = 149,299,200 Bytes per second of video. Or using the information above, we find that the required throughput would be ~142 MB/s or in networking terms ~1,139 Mb/s. We also haven't calculated your nice 7.1 channel audio either!


So no, gE cannot handle uncompressed HD video like HDMI can.

So I guess overall, you mileage may vary. I don't have these myself, but researched this option before cabling cat5 via the attic.

The reason they are variable in performance is, in some ways, like the wireless option. Nobody knows your house, size, obstructions, other electrical equipment, whether you have one single electricity circuit or two, how many power adapters etc etc. So, they may work really well, or rubbishly. That's the risk

bstrauss3 wrote:HomePlug is not BPL.

BPL runs signals over the powerlines coming into the home to give you BroadBand.

These units are FCC certified and don't cause interference unless your home wiring is improper

I just read the regulatory information on this unit. It is FCC Type B accepted. It is no guarantee that it will not cause interference.

equazcion wrote:You can get a nice standard wireless N router that can go about the same speed for around the same price. I find these things that run "over your power lines" too obscure. I'd rather utilize a widely-used standard.

Actually I use both at home, and find the powerline more reliable for video, as the wireless has occassional short outages, but it only takes one connection drop (even if quickly re-established) to kill a video connection such as slingbox or hava.

chefbooyadee wrote:FYI: If your home has separate wiring systems for different parts of the house(like an addition or some older houses), this won't work.

As an old-time X10 fan, I know only too well what you're referring to :-/

However the X10 community has a fix... you can bridge the two phases with a device that will allow the signal to transfer. Google for X10 phase coupler. No promises but there's a chance it would work here too. (I only have one powerline device so I've never tried it)

kudv4yn3 wrote:Just so everyone knows....PoE (power over ethernet) kits, are Cabbage Patch Elvis. There are so many things that can make these randomly stop working...
microwaves
cordless phones
cell phones
SURGE PROTECTORS...thats right, you cant use surge protectors with these or they wont work....
so yeah...if you dont have ANY OF THE ABOVE ITEMS, i think its safe to say youll be safe in your purchase...otherwise, Run an ethernet cable, put up access points, but a range extender...anything but these things.

i work for microcenter, and every one of these that i have sold have come back.

We have tried 2 different ethernet powerline devices at our house, and neither of them worked at all.

We also tried one that was supposed to carry a phone signal over the powerlines in our house, and that didn't work either. And it is not an old house at all, maybe 12 years old.

I use an over-the-air antenna for HDTV. Anyway to link the co-axial antenna cable to this ethernet-based system?

If i already have an Actiontec PoE can i use these as extra Ethernet outlets? The deal is almost too good to pass up.

Aaah, the ethernet over powerline setup. That's certainly useful i guess - like if you have power in some room and somehow don't have ethernet there. Wires-out-windows-networking (WOWN) is always an option, but many have o

But what about the rest of us? People who've got ethernet ports everywhere in the house, but only have power in a few rooms? Sure, they could use extension cords (just like the users of powerline networking could use WOWN), but that's inconvenient and unreliable.

I present to you the next step forward in household electric distribution, the Powerline-over-ethernet adaptor!
Use your existing ethernet lines to carry power to your equipment!

I built one of those in college >.> It was effective at destroying legacy equipment, but not as impressive as i'd hoped.

Another misconception...

Cat6 is required for gE. No, no it's not. If you run Cat6 cable in your home, you are essentially wasting your money.

Cat5e is rated at 100MHz, for all conductors in that cable. With 4 pairs of conductors (in gE that's 2 downlink, 2 uplink) you have a total of 200MHz of bandwidth in either direction. Assuming a perfect scenario of no protocol overhead, that translates to 200MB/s in both downlink and uplink speed, or in networking terms 1,562.5 Mb/s.

The next higher standard in ethernet is 10gE or 10GBASE-T. This will not hit consumers for a long time, reason being, there is no need. Most consumer computers cannot even store information at 1gE rate, let alone 10x that for 10gE. Not just that, the switching equipment required is prohibitively expensive, also, cable runs cannot be as long as with 1000BASE-T (1gE).

Now, if you're going to live in your house for a long, long, long time. Maybe I can see spending the money for the Cat6, but me, I ran Cat5e and when the need ever arises, I can purchase Cat6 for probably a fraction of what it costs now, tie on the Cat6 to the ends of my existing Cat5e, and make new pulls through the walls.

FrozenIpaq wrote:Sorry you think that way, I've been meaning to pick up some powerline adapters for almost a year now (always been too expensive). They are an excellent way to transfer your home network to areas where there is no wireless or where you have devices that don't have wireless access, such as the Xbox 360.

is this all I would need to make my xbox wireless?

If this has already been mentioned I appologize but from what I know about this technology it has to be run point to point on the same circuit, and also cannot be run through a surge protector unless there it's one that has a special connection for this sort of thing. I think I'll stick with wireless.

alextravels wrote:I use an over-the-air antenna for HDTV. Anyway to link the co-axial antenna cable to this ethernet-based system?

You might want to research MoCA routers and bridges (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance). Think about how a cable modem works. It is possible.

jstrat wrote:I'm a senior consulting infrastructure architect and while I've never specified powerline devices professionally, I have been using these devices for my, and my parent's homes for years... with excellent results.

I see a lot of nonsense written here by folks who do not use these so it's nice to see a sensible comment by someone who does. I have a pair of these by Belkin that I purchased because my wifi was weak and unreliable to a back bedroom computer. These work perfectly with a strong and steady signal that I believe is more secure than wireless. I bought Belkin over Linksys because the reviews were better but I doubt there is actually much difference. Interference has not been an issue.

I've read the thread, but I'm not clear on this... Can anyone clarify?

Right now I have a cable modem with an ethernet cable coming out, going to my computer. No router. On the other side of the room is a Tivo that also wants an ethernet connection. I don't want to pay for wireless right now. I could buy a router and a long cable and hook them up that way.

If I buy this, can I hook both of my devices up simultaneously, without buying a separate router? (in other words, does this function as a wired router?)

Thanks!

roadhunter wrote:You're not going to try to network one computer with itself, are you?

Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128

BoaZ2020 wrote:Another misconception...

Cat6 is required for gE. No, no it's not. If you run Cat6 cable in your home, you are essentially wasting your money.

Unless, of course, you have a big-ass spool of cat6 in your network closet and don't have any cat5. See? Cat6 can be far less expensive...

davevani wrote:I must disagree. Bandwidth in wired systems very much depends on the type of wire. More accurately, the amount of shielding and interference depends on wire type, which then has a direct correlation to available bandwidth. Think about cable TV-it's in a shielded coax, due to needing to carry GHz signals. Speaker wire can get away with being straight wire, although twisted is better. Bandwidth in wireless radio applications is a horse of a different color.

And I must disagree with you. By your argument a Shield twister Pair Cat 6 cable would pass more bandwidth then an unshielded twisted pair, which isn't the case. The reason you shield things is prevent cross talk and other interference and the only time that STP is better is when your running circles around a microwave.

jdavis103 wrote:I've read the thread, but I'm not clear on this... Can anyone clarify?

Right now I have a cable modem with an ethernet cable coming out, going to my computer. No router. On the other side of the room is a Tivo that also wants an ethernet connection. I don't want to pay for wireless right now. I could buy a router and a long cable and hook them up that way.

If I buy this, can I hook both of my devices up simultaneously, without buying a separate router? (in other words, does this function as a wired router?)

Thanks!

I'm pretty confident the end with 4 ports is just a switch. So no, this won't do what you want.

You could however buy an additional network card for your PC, set up Internet Connection sharing, and run the cable from that card to the powerline adapter. Then connect your Tivo to the other powerline adapter.

will these work with my PS3?

pavlovtherussian wrote:And I must disagree with you. By your argument a Shield twister Pair Cat 6 cable would pass more bandwidth then an unshielded twisted pair, which isn't the case. The reason you shield things is prevent cross talk and other interference and the only time that STP is better is when your running circles around a microwave.

Or very very long runs to prevent far end crosstalk.

Bandwidth depends on the frequency rating of the cable, so if the STP has a higher rating than the UTP, then whichever has the highest rating will have the highest maximum throughput capability.

shanebaker wrote:Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128
Reply from 127.0.0.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=128

lol

The Ho wrote:Bandwidth does not depend on cables. Wireless supports bandwidth without any cables and is also affected by interference.

if you read my post you would notice I said "hardwired"

Thanks for playing.

BoaZ2020 wrote:I'm pretty confident the end with 4 ports is just a switch. So no, this won't do what you want.

You could however buy an additional network card for your PC, set up Internet Connection sharing, and run the cable from that card to the powerline adapter. Then connect your Tivo to the other powerline adapter.

At that point I'd probably just buy a router in case I want more wires later Thanks!

davevani wrote:I must disagree. Bandwidth in wired systems very much depends on the type of wire. More accurately, the amount of shielding and interference depends on wire type, which then has a direct correlation to available bandwidth. Think about cable TV-it's in a shielded coax, due to needing to carry GHz signals. Speaker wire can get away with being straight wire, although twisted is better. Bandwidth in wireless radio applications is a horse of a different color.

Thank you.

rideburton56 wrote:I have been toying with going with Netflix online with my PS3 since they released it, but have been worried about bandwith issues. I know my router is N, but I don't think the PS3 has that technology. Would it be worth it to use this instead? Would it be smarter just to move the modem & router downstairs instead?

I'm not sure what PS3 uses but N is for in your home and with the Netflix application, it will be buffered. Your connection can only be as fast as your pipe leaving your house/apartment/whatever. I would keep your connection as is.

jackk714 wrote:is this all I would need to make my xbox wireless?

If you get this you just set the modem one by your modem and then put the second one (one with 4 ports) next to your 360 and run a cable from that to the 360. It doesn't make your 360 "wireless" but it will allow you to move it anywhere in your house.

LoveSpud wrote:Not sure where you get that last one; most homes are only truly isolated at the transformer. Ignoring distance limitations, your signal would be shared with homes on your transformer (which could mean anything from 1-8 houses or a whole apartment block).

Of course, DES is not WEP - hacking it still would require some specialized hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Encryption_Standard#Security_and_cryptanalysis
Assuming you change the default security password (an error equivalent to using no WiFi security) you can feel fairly confident about the security of your connection.

In fact, security over HomePlug is more secure than any WiFi connection not also protected by VPN since every data frame on HomePlug is DES encrypted.

Good luck!

Jon

Jon, that is exactly why we purchased it for our home. I didn't feel confident in securing a wireless network, but knew there was no way anyone would be plugging into one of my outlets without my knowledge and tapping my bandwidth.

BoaZ2020 wrote:Or very very long runs to prevent far end crosstalk.

Bandwidth depends on the frequency rating of the cable, so if the STP has a higher rating than the UTP, then whichever has the highest rating will have the highest maximum throughput capability.

And this is why we have Classification for cables, the example used was CAT-6 but it applies and any certified cable (well except those 99 cent ebay knock offs that uses subpar copper and god knows what elese) The certification sets the guidelines for maximum allowed attenuation, NEXT, FEXT and many many other things. Thus if the minimum requirements are meet the bandwidth difference become insignificant between UTP and STP.

I purchased a similar product (PLK300) about five months ago. In our older house (1960), it works great.

Setup was dead simple. Just make sure you plug it directly into the wall and not into a surge suppressor.

BoaZ2020 wrote:To state a few things that are large misconceptions:

-Disk capacity is rated in bytes.
-Throughput (ie: network speed) is rated in bits.

Mega (million) = M
Kilo (thousand) = K
Bytes = B
Bits = b

1 Byte (B) = 8 Bits
1 KiloByte (KB) = 1,024 Bytes (Not 1,000, because to express this in binary the closest thing to 1,000 is 2^10 which is 1,024)
1 MegaByte (MB) = 1,024 KB
1 MegaByte (MB) = 1,048,576 Bytes
1 MegaByte (MB) = 8,388,608 Bits

1,000 Megabits = 1 Gigabit (Gigabit Ethernet or gE)
1 Gigabit = 128 MegaBytes (MB)

Theoretical max throughput on gE is 128 MB/s.

Nice info, THANKS!

Sorry to say this, but DES-encryption is a joke! It is the same technology that WEP (wired equivalent protection) uses. 56-bit encryption can be brute-force broken with a few hours. If the kit used DES3 or AES (128+ bit encryption) it would be adequate. But as woot.com so aptly states, "...it’s dated and funny-sounding."

I'll pass. Don't buy this thinking it is secure. It's NOT!... it's just convenient.

Frak, it's not even HomePlug AV, the faster, better, less jittery tech. Going to pass on this; won't be compatible with my existing gear.

GenSuave wrote:
I'll pass. Don't buy this thinking it is secure. It's NOT!... it's just convenient.

But it's secure just by virtue of being wired, isn't it? Nobody's going to park a car on the street and hack it remotely.

GenSuave wrote:Sorry to say this, but DES-encryption is a joke! It is the same technology that WEP (wired equivalent protection) uses. 56-bit encryption can be brute-force broken with a few hours. If the kit used DES3 or AES (128+ bit encryption) it would be adequate. But as woot.com so aptly states, "...it’s dated and funny-sounding."

I'll pass. Don't buy this thinking it is secure. It's NOT!... it's just convenient.

Yes DES can be cracked in short order, although not with consumer equipment.

Also, DES is nothing like what is used in WEP.

WEP uses RC4 which is a stream cipher, DES is a block cipher.

A stream cipher uses a varying keystream to essentially salt the data being encrypted.

I have set of these (another brand)and they work great for me, I had 1 upstairs in the bedroom where my DSL hub is and the other in the garage and they both did speed test about the same. Because of the no surge protector bit I don't keep them plugged in unless I'm using the #2 pc- in fact I try to turn off everything I'm not using (have a main pwr dist strip for main pc and printer etc.).

jdavis103 wrote:But it's secure just by virtue of being wired, isn't it? Nobody's going to park a car on the street and hack it remotely.

Well, generally yes, however, hardwired eavesdropping is nothing new. All copper that carries a signal emits electromagnetic interference. This can be captured and with the right software, used to extrapolate the data that is on the wire.

Proof of concept: http://airodump.net/wired-keyboard-eavesdropping-video/

BoaZ2020 wrote:Well, generally yes, however, hardwired eavesdropping is nothing new. All copper that carries a signal emits electromagnetic interference. This can be captured and with the right software, used to extrapolate the data that is on the wire.

Proof of concept: http://airodump.net/wired-keyboard-eavesdropping-video/

My life isn't so interesting that anyone would bother Security through obscurity!