Dudes, I have to throw in a chirp for my puny little Senseo machine here as a more than viable alternative. It makes a nice espresso with great crema, makes a decent cup o'joe, lets you use your own beans if you prefer, has a small footprint for both coffee and espresso maker, has acceptable quality light to dark roast pre-made pods available, and costs well under a hundred bucks. It's low on the snob factor, but high on the coffee factor, and in terms of bang-per-buck I haven't seen anything that can beat it.
Has anybody had both & can tell us how they compare?

petermauro wrote:after reading 3 pages of comments about pots,
this had me lol

Agreed. I'm pretty upset that it's only 2 gallons. I normally haul a 5 gallon bucket down to starbucks for my daily fill up.

Your local coffee vending machine makes a better cappuccino then starbucks. My cafe mocca that I got there was weaker then...well, now I go to a local independent coffee shop. I go to him on the weekends, weekdays I make my own from a similar machine. Use bottled water, instead of tap. Machine reacts better to it. email me if you want some ideas for the chocolate side of coffee. stingray761@yahoo.com

Roostalee wrote:Maybe the most overlooked aspect of espresso making is the grind. Whatever you do, don't put Folger's in this (or any) espresso machine or you will be making fluid suitable for killing slugs. If you can't get a burr grinder, buy coffee at a place where they can grind it for espresso machines.

Amen!
Here's an easy cheat: Take a ziplock bag to your local Trader Joe's. Select your coffee of choice and set the grinder for espresso. Fill your little baggie, stop the machine, change the grind size to automatic drip, and grind the rest of the contents of the can. Stick yer baggie in yer can, cap it, and you're good to go.

If you need advice in picking out a coffee that's right for your tastes, they will help you.

Is Kalorik known for quality? (ie. do their products last over time)

I did a goog and didn't find that much; other than Kalorik is a pretty old company and most of their appliances seemed inexpensive...

I have this Mr. Coffee Espresso Machine from Amazon. It's $20 cheaper plus free shipping. Drinking some espresso I made with it right now, watching it snow!

All these posts about needing to spend $2000 on "a real" espresso machine and grinder are downright hillarious. How do you people think they were making this 200 years ago?? Hell, old school Italians used to roast beans in a FRYING PAN ON A FIRE FFS.

If you believe that you simply cannot get a passable cup, with a nice crema, from an inexpensive machine and reasonable burr grinder (or pre-ground espresso) you are deluding yourself.

We have found that the beauty of these types of inexpensive machines is you can experiment to find a coffee method and taste that you like. We've used machines like these for years and really enjoy them, the latest being a refurb Breville we bought from woot.

Rather than worry about proper barista brewing techniques and expensive "grinding burrs" and all that stuff, we buy Cuban espresso brands from the grocery store and use half and half instead of low fat milk.

Instead of making "little shots" of espresso, we'll fill up a standard coffee cup from a single espresso charge to make weaker espresso and then pour this into another cup that already has half and half in it. Then we steam the cup with coffee and half and half all together. If we are in a rush we'll pour the coffee on top of the half and half without steaming the espresso-cream mix, and it makes a good quick cup of "our type" of espresso.

The point is you can be your own creative genius and find an espresso taste that you like that is easy and quick to make. Why copy someone else? With your machine you can bend the espresso making rules to suit yourself.

And fie on regular coffee; these types of espresso machines are the cat's a** in the moonlight!

so, does this thing only use pods, or can you use your own espresso?

tennisplayer121 wrote:Could you please be more annoying and clutter up the discussion with more negativity. I realize you don't even know what an espresso machine is, but I don't really think that's an excuse.

Just trying to introduce some levity. Sense of humor lost in your translation. Ever thought of lightening up?

FerrisBueller wrote:OK, thank you for the clear explanation. That helps. I just did not see that in any of the pictures.

me too...in for one...oboy!

CaptainChode wrote:I'd like to clear a few things up, because there's a lot of misinformation here, including someone who claimed to be a Starbucks 'barista' (even if you do work at Starbucks, you're not a barista, you're a button pusher. Be honest with yourself).

First, although this is technically a real espresso machine, it's a piece of junk. There is no such thing as a good deal on a piece of junk. Save your money for something else instead of throwing it away on this.

That being said, there's a few other things to note. Although it's probably capable of 15 bars (this is the output of the pump), the regulated output at the coffee is 9 bars, as it should be. 15 bars (or whatever) does not make it better than a machine which advertises itself more accurately as 9 bars.

So while this machine might be marginally better than a $20 steam toy, you're still not going to make anything close to a palatable espresso. Yes, you can drown it in 12oz of steamed milk like Starbucks does and you won't be able to tell the difference. If this is your goal, you might as well buy an aeropress for $25 (shipped price at Amazon), and you'll have something that actually is capable of making a very palatable cup of coffee (although it technically won't be espresso). You can then buy a milk frother and you'll have something at least as good as the low bar that Starbucks sets.

If you want a decent espresso on the cheap, check ebay or craigslist for a used Gaggia, buy a refurbished burr grinder from Baratza, get some decent coffee, and be prepared to invest a lot of time into figuring out what you are doing.

Finally! A voice of reason!

Truelynolen wrote:Lol grr I keep buying stuff from woot ... its worse than a casino u know that ... and your reviews that its a great product don't help haha. First time I have $$ in a long time. I really hope I use the espresso machine. Dudes look I AM SOOO CHEAP i refuse to buy starbucks ... but i want espresso machine soo bad for a long time b/c i love the drinks. Woot you have made my wishes come true. Although I am sad i lost $60, I am glad I gained the espresso machine that hopefully will make me want to get up in mornings for my sugary caffinated high!

Relax! $60 at Starbucks will only last you two weeks, if that. Waaaay overpriced scaffolding.

mgherter wrote:It's not a coffee maker....it's an espresso maker. They're not the same thing, so you don't use the same equipment to make the beverage. Two branches of the same tree, so to speak, but not the same thing at all. You wouldn't ever drink a "cup" of espresso.... you'd have a shot. Or three, if you're me.

It's like the difference between brandy and wine. Wine is mostly water, while brandy is mostly the "essence" of the wine, distilled. Espresso's kind of to coffee what brandy is to wine. Except without the booze. Again, unless you're me.

Great analogy. (Unless you're me).
I prefer Jack to Brandy, but Brandy will do just fine. LOL

Sells for $96.97 @ Amazon!

kallell wrote:Thanks again, but not exactly what i was getting at. I meant where the coffee goes when its made, do you have to get your own pot for it to disperse in to or can you push some button or knob to get one cup at a time?

espresso IS coffee

fe428623 wrote:1250 watts! Sheesh! I can just see the electric meter disk flying right off the meter and through my neighbor's kitchen window. Think that's enough for a coffee maker?

So obviously, you don't own a toaster, a microwave or an electric stove. Yeah, this thing uses less electricity than a toaster, and even then only draws full current during warm-up and duty cycles---whereas a toaster is full blast all the time it's working. Get a grip.

Waste of money - 90% of the people who buy this will make a couple of cups of espresso and be disappointed by the resulting scaffolding that comes out of this and then proceed to put it under a kitchen counter and forget about it. You want good espresso maker - get a Rancilio Silvia. This little POS probably doesn't even have a boiler but uses one of those 'instant' boil plates which could never deliver 25 seconds of water at 205F which is what you need to get a good cup of espresso. You want to get into espresso - read this: http://www.coffeekid.com/espresso/minifaq

I was a training manager for a local coffee chain for several years. Things to know. Water is key, make sure to run through a good filter first. Don't take it from the sink. Your coffee will taste much better. Next home grinders are meant for cone/basket filters NOT ESPRESSO!!! Have your local shop grind it for espresso, extra fine grind. Also ground beans lose oils MUCH faster. Buy smaller quantities, and keep air tight in the freezer. This will last for 2 weeks max. You will have a much more enjoyable cup of coffee.

PS for best foam use a spoon and hold foam in the pitcher. Pour hot milk into cup with espresso. Put pitcher with foam into the freezer or very cold fridge for 30 seconds. Foam will get dense very fast and you can spoon it on top of your drink.

roadhunter wrote:Until you can afford to buy the best, don't even waste your money on this one. Go to Wal-Mart and get a drip brewer for $10.

Yes one COULD do this.

Instead I have a delonghi espresso machine and a burr grinder, and I'm enjoying my daily espresso. Right now. It's great.

So yes you COULD listen to those who "know" or you could enjoy the bird in the hand... whether it meets the standards of someone else or not.

I don't know about the quality of this, but it sounds like this is worth a shot if you don't already have a machine.

nbirnbaum2 wrote:I was a training manager for a local coffee chain for several years. Things to know. Water is key, make sure to run through a good filter first. Don't take it from the sink. Your coffee will taste much better. Next home grinders are meant for cone/basket filters NOT ESPRESSO!!! Have your local shop grind it for espresso, extra fine grind. Also ground beans lose oils MUCH faster. Buy smaller quantities, and keep air tight in the freezer. This will last for 2 weeks max. You will have a much more enjoyable cup of coffee.

PS for best foam use a spoon and hold foam in the pitcher. Pour hot milk into cup with espresso. Put pitcher with foam into the freezer or very cold fridge for 30 seconds. Foam will get dense very fast and you can spoon it on top of your drink.

oh non fat milk makes the best foam. U like using 2% milk with nonfat foam.

DO NOT OVER PULL YOUR ESPRESSO, do not extract more than 1.5 ounces in a single pull or you get bitter espresso

emceemk wrote:Amen!
Here's an easy cheat: Take a ziplock bag to your local Trader Joe's. Select your coffee of choice and set the grinder for espresso. Fill your little baggie, stop the machine, change the grind size to automatic drip, and grind the rest of the contents of the can. Stick yer baggie in yer can, cap it, and you're good to go.

If you need advice in picking out a coffee that's right for your tastes, they will help you.

Good advice... but who do we have to kidnap to get Trader Joe's to open a store in Texas??

cheroke55 wrote:{...snippage...}
The same brand 2/4 cup espresso maker with a pot.
http://www.amazon.com/SHOPZEUS-Kalorik-Espresso-Maker/dp/B002UV8JUU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1264838289&sr=8-6

I drink double or triple espressos. Not tiny sips.

Let me see if I can help you out here. Any "espresso" machine that comes with a pot, like the one in your link, is not a real espresso machine. Those machines have no pump - they operate on steam pressure -- and can't achieve the pressure or precise (92 - 96 C, 192 - 198 F) temperature required to make true espresso. If you actually care about the quality of the beverage, you might not want to make the presence of a carafe your determining criteria.

Real espresso machines brew their coffee two shots at a time (dual spout portafilter) but sometimes have a single-cup portafilter as well. The precise formula for a single shot of espresso is, in effect, written into law: 1 - 1.25 ounces of water at 192 - 198 degrees Fahrenheit forced through 7 grams of coffee grounds at 9 atmospheres of pressure for around 25 seconds.

Not that there's anything wrong with coffee beverages brewed differently, like Moka pot coffee. It's just that they aren't espresso. And if you wanted to brew 6 or 12 ounces of espresso at a time, you'd have to completely redesign the espresso machine. They just don't work like that. (Note that you can run more water through the portafilter, but the coffee becomes increasingly bitter and--as we say out west--"bad" after the first ounce or two.) Hope this helps.

Buy 3 of these so you will be prepared for the next woot off.

cheroke55 wrote:The pot is extra, if you want one. Otherwise you can make it in a cup.
Quite shabby if you ask me. Who wants a coffee maker without something to store it in?

stored coffee is stale. especially if stored on a hot plate. the point with espresso is to make a good, fresh cup and you drink it immediately. if you want to store your coffee get a Mr. Coffee. No one stores espresso. you make each person a fresh cup.

dharshanv wrote:Check out Alton Brown's excellent video on making an espresso.

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbqE3Npk13k&feature=related

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS6rveFmgTo&feature=related

Not sure how this machine stacks up especially as Alton recommends 9 bars of pressure!

Thanks! Great videos. I'm really looking forward to working on my home barista skills. I think this is a fabulous price for a high-scoring machine (with buyers), and it's oh so pretty too.

zuberman wrote:Anyone know the wattage on this machine?

its 1250-watt its on amazon to but its more money

Just bought one. We use a french press right now, which makes pretty good coffee, but sometimes ya just want something with more kick to it. There's a store down the street from me that roasts beans, so fortunately i have easy access to great coffee at a very reasonable price.

The ONLY time i drink coffee from starbucks is when i'm trapped at an airport - otherwise it's home brewed or locally owned shops only.

zuberman wrote:Anyone know the wattage on this machine?

its 1250-watt its on amazon to but more money

aaxiom wrote:To get the very finest out of any of these coffee "steam toys" (which DO produce a nice cup), you NEED a GOOD, HIGH-QUALITY coffee GRINDER. Really.

A "whirly-blade" grinder WILL NOT work with something like this. You need a real one, preferably with a conical burr set to a fine grind. You will not regret doing this, I assure you.

Cabbage Patch Elvis!! Oxen Feces!!
I have a Cuisinart Grinder (Whirly Blades) - $30 at Samsclub. I use it to grind pre-ground coffee into espresso grounds. Finest and tastiest espresso stuff you have ever seen.
My point is the the whirly blades grinders are very effective depending on how you utilize it.

Anybody know if it has a full-size 58mm portafilter?
My Gaggia bit the dust, but the tamper is still good...

zombiekicker wrote:My favorite is a shot of espresso in a regular cup of coffee. That'll open your eyes!!

We call that a "shot in the dark" down here. Good stuff fer sure, especially if the espresso is only so-so.

Pufferfishy wrote:...How do you people think they were making this 200 years ago?? Hell, old school Italians used to roast beans in a FRYING PAN ON A FIRE...

My grandma was definitely old-school Italian! IIRC, she ground the beans in a rotary hand grinder and made the espresso in a brass pot on the back of the wood stove. I remember this from childhood, MANY years ago.
I grew up on that brew and my father always said it would stunt my growth.

UncleStu wrote:IMHO it's very hard to beat the cheap little aluminum ones you put on the stove - the ones that have upper and lower sections.

OH! That's it. You described the pot grandma had. Are they still made? (I lead a sheltered life)

Anyone able to find the boiler/thermal block construction in this unit (Just don't like the idea of heating water in aluminum)?

toottoot wrote:Cabbage Patch Elvis!! Oxen Feces!!
I have a Cuisinart Grinder (Whirly Blades) - $30 at Samsclub. I use it to grind pre-ground coffee into espresso grounds. Finest and tastiest espresso stuff you have ever seen.
My point is the the whirly blades grinders are very effective depending on how you utilize it.

Nope---if you think a whirly blade chopper makes great espresso, then you haven't had good espresso. If you're just making lattes and such OK, but you need a very consistent grind for espresso. And if you think you're making "espresso grounds" out of supermarket Folgers, you really need to go out and try REAL espresso sometime.

Pufferfishy wrote:If you believe that you simply cannot get a passable cup, with a nice crema, from an inexpensive machine and reasonable burr grinder (or pre-ground espresso) you are deluding yourself.

You can get crema off preground? Maybe with a pressurized portafilter; but then, that's fake crema anyway.
Don't forget the rule of 15s:
Green coffee should be used within 15 months or it will go stale.
Roasted coffee should be used within 15 days (including the initial 4-7 days for degassing) or it will go stale.
Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes
or
it
WILL
go
stale.
Freezing doesn't help, gasses are still escaping, and with anything lighter than a northern Italian (read: charcoal) roast you risk annihilating any aromas trapped inside the beans.

Now, I will concede that budget stuff can make passable, even *good* espresso, but it will never make an excellent shot. Pair up a 15 bar pump machine with a great burr grinder like a Mazzer, and you've gone a long way towards "good." Add in fresh beans, and the skill to properly prepare your shot, *and* temperature surf your machine, and you're in SBDU heaven. If anything at that point is lacking, so then is your espresso.

Personally, I've got a Hamilton Beach pump machine, and a ~$50 hand grinder, and it works great. It's not perfect, and takes some time, but like this machine, it can do a lot for a low price if you go the extra mile to make it so.
As far as time...after 40 minutes of warm up time (to get the brew head and then-locked-in portafilter up to temperature), two flushing cycles, grinding, dosing, tamping, temp surfing and shot pulling, I've spent around an hour on the whole process. That's for a little less than 2 oz. of espresso, no steaming, and clean up comes later. If I had 10 grand to drop on a better setup (La Marzocco GS/3 paddle group, Mazzer Super Jolly, some nice milled burrs, etc.), I could leave the machine on and do it all in less than 5 minutes. It's a labor of love that gets a little easier with a bigger budget.

shindig966 wrote:Well, it could help to beat that Starbucks addiction...

You mean "Fourbucks"?

endustry wrote:Maybe a dumb questions, but the contents does not indicate a pot... does this maker come with a pot? If so, how many servings?

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Not the pot discussion again!

mgherter wrote:It's not a coffee maker....it's an espresso maker. They're not the same thing, so you don't use the same equipment to make the beverage. Two branches of the same tree, so to speak, but not the same thing at all. You wouldn't ever drink a "cup" of espresso.... you'd have a shot. Or three, if you're me.

It's like the difference between brandy and wine. Wine is mostly water, while brandy is mostly the "essence" of the wine, distilled. Espresso's kind of to coffee what brandy is to wine. Except without the booze. Again, unless you're me.

Woot Gods, where are you? THIS is a quality post!