anthonyjoyce wrote:Did you see the part about the killer robots? They don't give a flying gristle about chi or flow or any of those silly things. Buy it for the robots... just do it!

If this device gave me control of an army of killer robots, I might just have to buy it.

FreePlayPSP wrote:Seriously, read what I actually wrote before posting something stupid. In this thread I have REPEATEDLY said that TENS is legit, and that the problem I have is that they're claiming that it works based on acupuncture. We're not even disagreeing here. I know that a legitimate TENS device doesn't have anything to do with acupuncture. I also understand that this is The Sharper Image and they have a tendency to make stuff up about their devices based on what they think people want to read.

Regardless of what you posted AFTER that original post, it was the original post that I was criticizing -- and quoted in its entirety. And in it, you said that it was hi tech snake oil without further details. You had every opportunity to edit the original post. As for Sharper Image, they merely re-brand items unless they specifically indicated "Invented here." Several of my patients use this very model and have pain relief and improved range of motion that cannot be explained by mere placebo effect. So again, unless you know about this model specifically, comments like "hi tech snke oil" is based on pure ignorance.

sdc100 wrote:So again, unless you know about this model specifically, comments like "hi tech snke oil" is based on pure ignorance.

... No. It's based on the claim that it works via acupuncture. That's the entire reason I even started posting here.

I'm not even going to address the cherry-picking of my post to fit with what you want to say.

Basically the discussion can be summed up like this: You're not going to believe anyone that says anything different than what you already believe, and I'm not going to believe most of what you say.

And I do think that until we know everything, just about anything in the world IS possible...not necessarily probable, but possible. Something could be discovered tomorrow that turns all of our present knowledge on its head. If something works (even if not for the reasons you ascribe to it) then it works.

And "what's the harm" refers to a situation when the end result is generally not going to be worse, not when you take a bad situation and make it a disaster. I read the site that you linked, and some of it was interesting and rather tragic. On the other hand, some of the people were simply victims of bad luck, not necessarily bad thinking (a teenager "ghost hunting" as a lark does not generally need to fear getting shot in the head).

FreePlayPSP wrote:Except that chiropractic adjustment has nothing to do with fixing MECHANICAL problems. Like I said in the post you quoted (did you bother reading it?) it's about the magical idea that energy flowing through your nerves - not nerve signals, but something different entirely and undetectable - connects your spine to all of your organs, and if your spine goes out of alignment, your spleen might not work quite so well. Seriously, go to a chiropractor and read their literature sometime. They talk about spinal adjustments being able to improve organ function and 'ease the vital flow' - things like that. It has nothing to do with the mechanic analogy you presented. It's no different from a person saying that they can adjust your aura by waving crystals over your body, and thus effect a change in your metabolic processes.

Ummmmmmm......

You are refuting scientific FACT. Go back to college and study basic human anatomy, physiology, and neurology. When the spine is out of alignment, the dorsal and ventral nerve roots get pinched. Since they are the ROOTS of ALL nerves that radiate to all the organ systems of the body, they DO IN FACT affect the function of those organs---that is their entire purpose of existence in the first place. When they are pinched, that function is indeed altered, as any neurologist will tell you. Chiropractic adjustments relieve that pinching (by MECHANICAL adjustment) and can thus restore normal nerve function to whichever organ system(s) was/were affected. Get a medical degree, then you and I will be on equal footing to discuss this. As it is, you are simply ranting about something that is (quite obviously) out of your educational range.

Like I said, I am NOT a chiropractor -- I'm a SURGEON. One who understands how the body works.

tenshineko wrote:I'm not even going to address the cherry-picking of my post to fit with what you want to say.

Thank you for bothering to address anything I have said. Really awesome to see that you actually care. Calling my post cherry picking when it quotes the only parts of your post that are relevant to your arguments is pretty awesome, too.

I'd love for you to address this:

FreePlayPSP wrote:So if they've proved to their satisfaction that the sun goes around the Earth, does that mean that, in China, the sun actually goes around the Earth? Or are we dealing with a single reality that is consistent everywhere?

We work with the best approximations we can make to how the universe works. If someone believes something completely different that cannot be confirmed by experiment or evidence, they are almost certainly wrong.

tenshineko wrote:Basically the discussion can be summed up like this: You're not going to believe anyone that says anything different than what you already believe, and I'm not going to believe most of what you say.

I believe evidence. That's it.

tenshineko wrote:And I do think that until we know everything, just about anything in the world IS possible...not necessarily probable, but possible. Something could be discovered tomorrow that turns all of our present knowledge on its head.

And until it does, there is no reason whatsoever to work under the assumption that what we think is right is actually wrong.

tenshineko wrote:If something works (even if not for the reasons you ascribe to it) then it works.

Unless it's not actually working, and we're misunderstanding what's really going on.

tenshineko wrote:And "what's the harm" refers to a situation when the end result is generally not going to be worse, not when you take a bad situation and make it a disaster.

This is what the proponents of pseudoscience say is the case: if you're desperate for a solution, what's the harm in seeking out every possible option? Well, in some cases, it can kill you quicker. It can bankrupt you. It can leave you with a lower quality of life for the rest of the time that you have. It can distract you from finding real solutions.

tenshineko wrote:I read the site that you linked, and some of it was interesting and rather tragic. On the other hand, some of the people were simply victims of bad luck, not necessarily bad thinking (a teenager "ghost hunting" as a lark does not generally need to fear getting shot in the head).

And, of course, that example isn't even relevant here, because we're talking about medicine.

RageOfAngels wrote:Can this give me six-pack abs?

Uhm....no. Sorry, but this type of device doesn't cause the muscles to really contract. It's more of a surface stimulation and, as one responder put it well, it's made to distract your brain. The brain can only process so many sources of pain at one point in time. Usually 3-4 areas at most. So I use my TENS (and got this as an upgrade) to help take my focus off the back pain. It replaces the pain with a tingling sensation which is much more tolerable. But no, it won't give you a six pack. Crunches would, however! And they are FREE!

There are other machines made for deep muscle stimulation - a physical therapist would know what kind to recommend. But the TENS is definitely NOT it. Crank that puppy up and you might have a six-burn instead of a six-pack!

I have used a TENS machine for about two years now and I LOVE MY TENS. Without it, I'm sometimes in bed most of the day. With it, life goes on.

FreePlayPSP wrote:That's the point. It DOESN'T work. It is not the specific treatment that's doing anything. It's the experience of undergoing treatment. You could use ANYTHING, for FREE, and get the same results, provided that you underwent an experience that seemed like treatment.

As for this whole "skeptical religion" thing, I think I know who's reading NaturalNews...

I have used a TENS at home for two years. I am very happy with it. I am 25 years old and I had a car accident in 2007. Since then my lower back has hurt nearly every single day. My TENS unit helps me move and walk more freely because it replaces the pain with a tingling sensation that is much more tolerable. Hope you get to talk to someone who lives with chronic pain and uses one of these TENS units successfully before making judgments that are based on NEITHER fact nor experience. By the way, I also have an AS in Occupational Therapy Assistant. These are used successfully, with medical research to back-up their use, in therapy. I am excited to get this new TENS unit with the back brace and not have to deal with electrode leads hanging out all over the place.

majorwest wrote:Wow, lots of opinions on these...and lots of controversy.

First off, I bought mine during a previous Woot - a different brand which have only four contact points. This one I see has six.

At any rate, I didn't know what to think of these when I purchased them, they didn't cost very much. But since I've had lower back pain off and on most of my adult life, what the heck.

I stored them in the closet and basically forgot about them. A couple of years went by - yeah, I bought them that long ago - and recently did something that strained my back and that old pain came back. Was popping pain pills for a couple of days when I remembered the TENS unit sitting in the closet. Dug it out, unboxed the thing, popped a 9volt in and put it on, and .... WOW!!!

I don't know what all the controversy is about, but these things do work and provide a sense of relief. My back pain was moderate to severe to where I would have trouble standing straight or walking. It feels like hundreds of little vibrating fingers pushing and massaging your back, the sensation is fairly strong. I found myself playing with the unit and cycling thru the many different "patterns" of massage finding some much more effective than others. Anyway, I like this thing and glad I bought it.

Battery still works after a solid week of use. Back pain subsided after a week and gone by the following week. I went thru a couple set of pads in that week: the adhesive wears down after several uses and the pads must be replaced with fresh ones. The belt is elastic so one size fits all, I guess.

For what it's worth.

Thanks for posting about your real-life experience with a TENS machine. Folks who say it's hokey should ask those who wear them for relief.

Gatzby wrote:Were your parents killed by an acupuncturist?

LMAO!!!! Sure seems like it, doesn't it?

shindig966 wrote:Has anyone actually used one of these things? What kind of results have you had for moderate back pain?

I've used a TENS for years. Works fine when turned on, but take it off and the pain comes right back.

Hey how can I order the TENS UNIT??? I need it bad. My physical theripys said I could get it off woot.com but where do i get it at???

wootalyzer wrote:Wootalyzer's Pricing Post! - The price of today's woot item is saved here for future reference
------------------------------------------------------------
Sharper Image TENS Back Pain Relief System
$39.99 + $5 Shipping
Condition: New

Product List:
- 1 Sharper Image MQ710 TENS Back Pain Relief System

*DISCLAIMER* Wootalyzer! is in no way affiliated with Woot!, and this post may not always be here!

phaesmom wrote:Just an FYI:
The reason that this wouldn't work would be due to the fact that Fibromyalgia is a psychological condition.

I'm pretty certain that the condition that my husband was diagnosed with 25 years ago is not psychological. Perhaps you need to feel the pain to know how very real it is. I wouldn't wish it on anyone (I get to hear him groan from pain all night long) but in your case...

I'm also a skeptic, and I agree that acupuncture, chiropractic, etc. are all BS. I go to the skeptic websites, subscribe to skeptic magazine, etc etc.

PSPwhateverthehellhisnameis is right in principle. What he's done wrong here is fail to realize that the key to communicating science correctly is to do it without sounding like a condescending douchenozzle.

Device arrived without the leads. Given the Sharper Image situation I don't expect to get any satisfaction. Woot doesn't seem to have customer service. Any suggestions appreciated

Same problem here no leads just a empty spot in the bag.

I just received my TENS unit and it doesn't even power on. I contacted the manual's customer support telephone, and I got a discontinued telephone number. I tried to email and it bounced back.

Looks like Sharper Image support is finished for this product. I am hoping Woot can accommodate but I feel that I am simply going to get a credit and a product that doesn't work. I should have ordered two just for this reason.

This couldn't have come on a better day. My back was tweaking and I thought I was going to have another blowout. I got home and had a quick dinner then set about to figuring this thing out.

Pretty easy to get set up and I was running through all the different settings. The auto-lock feature is annoying. I really like the two channel setup, so I can use a stronger power on the lower pads and go easy on the upper ones. I guess it depends on how much fat it has to zap through.

After a 15 minute session, I feel pretty good. I'm not going to test my back with some deadlifts, but I think this will be a good addition to my back recovery regimen.

asiatic29831 wrote:I just received my TENS unit and it doesn't even power on. I contacted the manual's customer support telephone, and I got a discontinued telephone number. I tried to email and it bounced back.

I thought mine wouldn't power on too, but you need to hold the On button for a few seconds. Ditto with turning it off.

skione wrote:I have this one and it is actually pretty good. It compares to the one I used at physical therapy. My problem has been finding pads. If anyone knows a good place can you PM me or email me at mfsole(at)hotmail(dot)com?

Thanks

Search for "ultrastim us2020" You can get 40 pads for $50 here.



If you Bing, you can get cash back, too.

I got mine today and have already tried it out. This is exactly what I was looking for... ahhhh a little slice of heaven...

asiatic29831 wrote:I just received my TENS unit and it doesn't even power on. I contacted the manual's customer support telephone, and I got a discontinued telephone number. I tried to email and it bounced back.

Looks like Sharper Image support is finished for this product. I am hoping Woot can accommodate but I feel that I am simply going to get a credit and a product that doesn't work. I should have ordered two just for this reason.

My device came with an "Important Notice" paper. It says the warranty for this product will be provided by:

GMR US INVESTMENTS LLC
11820 Red Hibiscus Drive
Bonita Springs, FL 34135
1-239-494-4849
info@prorelax-gmr.com (web site domain still active)

zappadragon wrote:How much?

where do you get the pads are they expensive?
let me know please

thank you

djohnk wrote:I'm sorry, but I think If your stupid enough to put one of these on with a pacemaker in your chest you deserve to die.

Gene pool therapy, yea baby.