Anyone building an HTPC for use with cable in this day and age is misguided. Cable companies are removing their analog feed all over the place and encrypting their QAM, which leaves your HTPC with the ability to record... you guessed it... only the local digital channels you could pick up OTA anyway.
The only workaround is a PC-based CableCard and those are/were hard to find and far too quirky and expensive last I checked, which was pretty recently.
EVERY cable company offers CableCards for inexpensive or even free rental, whether they advertise it or not. Once you convince them you really do need one (or sometimes two) and go through the initial hassle of getting them to install/activate the cards they work fine and you can TiVo basically all the channels you receive. You don't get their on-demand through it; who cares, you usually get one free HD cable box with your service anyway so use that for on-demand if you must.
Cable company DVRs, on the whole, tend to be slow, clunky, laggy, have limited capacity, and are usually non-expandable. They can get the job done but it's the difference between a rusty Pinto with no A/C, leaking oil and a new sports car.
Bottom line, if you have cable (and anything beyond the very most basic cable) and want to record shows, TiVo is by far the best option. If you don't have cable, don't bother looking.
And 1080i vs 1080p is a complete non-issue for cable.

ktegtm wrote:I got one of these last time on Woot. Word to the wise: you need TWO single channel cable cards. When my cable company (Time Warner) came out, he only had one, apparently they don't usually have extras on the truck. More devices use multi-channel cards now.

One of his supervisors told him that the single multichannel card would work, so we tried that for about 45 minutes during set-up, before talking to another manager who said, 'No, that won't work.'

The next day, a different pair of installers came out with two cards. And life has been blissful ever since.

I had a cable box from Time Warner, and I have 2 other older Tivo's. By comparison, the Time Warner DVR totally sucked. It far harder to program. It wouldn't automatically clear older programs to record new ones. It took multiple non-intuitive steps to select programs. And the remote sucked. I was very excited to replace it.

Our HD XL is recording from both tuners just fine with one dual tuner card from Comcast. Unlike our S3 HD that requires two cards single or dual to record two channels simultaneously.

If you want a DVR that records over-the-air HDTV with NO monthly fees, check out the DISH PAL DVR. It downloads program guides OTA for a week in advance, has two tuners so you can record two shows at once. If you are a familiar with dish network satellite DVR's, their OTA broadcast DVR is almost identical to use. It records 30 hours HD or 150 hours SD. Paying a monthly fee to TiVo to get a program guide is a total rip-off. About 90% of what I want to record is broadcast network shows so the DISH PAL was great for me. Note it will not receive cable or satellite.

vetgirl4 wrote:I have Verizon Fios and do not have a cable card. I gave up their DVR because of the monthly cost. Can this be a replacement?

yes you can, but if you pay month $13/month with Tivo, you'll pay same or more when you add cost of cable card. and if you can't get your box fixed you're out of luck. but if you do lifetime subscription and it lasts long enough compared to cost of fixing issues, then you can save money. cable card is $4/card. you may need two if your area doesn't have M series.

abwhitney wrote:what do you mean they'll make me pay? if I have internet only from them will those QAM channels come in? Or will they only come in if I'm already paying for a certain tv channel subscription? What about basic channels? That's $14/month. no HD.

Those channels will only come in if you have service from Tivo. ONLY the old old models some series 1, old 3rd party (magnovox, sony, etc) and maybe other will allow you to record without tivo service.

these are good.... if you live in 2000 still LOL

all service providers have DVR built in with plenty of features tivo gives

DezertRat wrote:I'm wondering how they lost... Got links? I have yet to meet someone with a lifetime sub that has gotten hosed.

If you look at any of the 1 or 2 star ratings for boxes on amazon you can read experiences. granted those people may not have known about third party repair services.

DezertRat wrote:Ummm... works just fine over here... I can record plenty of stuff off the analog channels - I refuse to record my wife's Okrah and Judge Newdy in HD.

I contacted Tivo customer service with my problem (cable cuts out and just shows a gray screen) and they told me that since this Tivo was primarily made for digital cable many people with analog have this problem and there's nothing they can do about it.

In my experience, TiVos last a long while. I've got 3 of 'em - a S2 80-hour STILL running 24x7 since January 2004, a S2 40-hour running since ~2005 and a S3 HD running straight for over 2 years.

Am tempted by this deal today. Was thinking of getting the WD 1TB Expander drive @ ~$120 but this Woot may be a better deal as I could retire my S2 40 hour and get a ton more space for ~$50 more than the HD alone.

TiVo rules.


David.

abwhitney wrote:cable card is $4/card. you may need two if your area doesn't have M series.

Note that this is not true generally. It varies from service provider to service provider and in different areas. Mine are $1/mo, I've heard some people even get them free.

abwhitney wrote:If you look at any of the 1 or 2 star ratings for boxes on amazon you can read experiences. granted those people may not have known about third party repair services.

Cracks me up. People can figure out how to melon about something on Amazon, but can't manage to use Google to do a little research on their problem? Sad.

Anyhow, ab... It sounds like you just want to argue about the TiVo. You aren't a Scientific Atlanta tech or something are you? You're pushing those cable company DVRs pretty hard... But, on the other hand, you're still here, contemplating... Buy it or don't. You've got all the data that you can get without buying it. Buy it, do a month to month, see what happens. If you don't like it, eBay it at a minor loss. If you like it, get a lifetime. Or don't. But if it lasts 4 years without issue, you'll be kicking yourself, just like I would have if it had died and I couldn't fix it in 14 months. Risk/reward. Nothing's a sure thing in life.

Will this come in the original box?

Beware of Tivo - You will need to purchase a subscription (either monthly or lifetime). Unfortunately, the lifetime subscription is not for your lifetime, but rather the lifetime of the unit. So when the hard drive wears out after a couple of years (as most computer hard drives do) or some other malfunction occurs, you are stuck with a broken unit - Tivo will not let you buy another unit and transfer your subscription.

Wow, at this price for the XL, especially being new and not refurbished, I can't belive it's not sold out already! If I didn't already have two regular Tivo HD's I'd have one of these in a second! I paid $199 for my regular Tivo HD with the smaller hard drive.

jd042686 wrote:I contacted Tivo customer service with my problem (cable cuts out and just shows a gray screen) and they told me that since this Tivo was primarily made for digital cable many people with analog have this problem and there's nothing they can do about it.

Ahhh... That problem. It seems to have mostly gone away with the latest update... I did have that happen as well - and it was quite annoying. That said, I could usually get it to "unstick" by channel up/down on one tuner then on the other...

6319mori wrote:Beware of Tivo - You will need to purchase a subscription (either monthly or lifetime). Unfortunately, the lifetime subscription is not for your lifetime, but rather the lifetime of the unit. So when the hard drive wears out after a couple of years (as most computer hard drives do) or some other malfunction occurs, you are stuck with a broken unit - Tivo will not let you buy another unit and transfer your subscription.

Or, you could read the other posts here, and note that you can replace the hard drive, or just about every other component... Hit up http://weaknees.com for all your service needs. Or, be stuck with a dead box that you paid too much money for.

Dman27 wrote:these are good.... if you live in 2000 still LOL

all service providers have DVR built in with plenty of features tivo gives

Sorry Dman27, I've been using TiVo from it's start in 1999, I've seen many other DVR and have had many conversations about them. The bottom line is, the TiVo interface and capabilities puts them all to shame and is well worth the extra cost.
You can drive a Yugo or a Lexus

I recently just got a DVR. If you do not have one, it is a must when it comes to watching TV.

LOL I'm an IT person who lives on deal finding. I don't work for any cable company.

FWIW, over on fatwallet someone suggested a good way to minimize risk.

First is to upgrade box and keep old box with lifetime and then sell on ebay. That would reduce cost of lifetime subscription.

Other way was to buy with credit card that adds year to warranty. That's a great idea.

I bought a civic cuz it was reliable, cheaper on gas, and safe. It does have extra features (audio on steering wheel, ipod connection, etc), but I didn't go luxury on it. Same thing with DVR. I don't mind paying a little extra for certain features, but it's not going to save me money necessarily. possibly, but not necessarily.

all that being said, let's get back to the real way to save money - not paying for channels.

do you know if I can get unencrypted qam channels from fios if I have fios internet and no tv subscription? or do I have to have basic tv at minimum?

DezertRat wrote:Cracks me up. People can figure out how to melon about something on Amazon, but can't manage to use Google to do a little research on their problem? Sad.

Anyhow, ab... It sounds like you just want to argue about the TiVo. You aren't a Scientific Atlanta tech or something are you? You're pushing those cable company DVRs pretty hard... But, on the other hand, you're still here, contemplating... Buy it or don't. You've got all the data that you can get without buying it. Buy it, do a month to month, see what happens. If you don't like it, eBay it at a minor loss. If you like it, get a lifetime. Or don't. But if it lasts 4 years without issue, you'll be kicking yourself, just like I would have if it had died and I couldn't fix it in 14 months. Risk/reward. Nothing's a sure thing in life.

SuperTully wrote:All right, let's get serious. You can get a DVR from your Cable provider for $5 per month, so what does Tivo offer that a cable provider doesn't?

A cable DVR gives you access to their on demand, and customer central where-as a third party DVR would not allow you access to those channels.
On the flip side, TIVO has an amazing menu as TIVO is all about DVR. There are a lot of things lost either way. I was sad to go from cable to tivo but my parents loved going from nothing to tivo.

One question on this model though, why does the description still say:

"...requires the installation and activation of either two (2) Multi-Stream CableCARDs (M-Card) or two (2) Single-Stream CableCARDs (S-Card)"

When they reportedly work fine with just one M-card(as they should)? Note, I haven't tried it personally with this model.

EDIT: From TiVo site:
"In order to record two channels at once on a TiVo HD or TiVo HD XL box, you'll need either one Multi-stream CableCARD or two Single-stream CableCARDs. If you have a Premiere or a Premiere XL, you'll need one Multi-stream CableCARD to watch your HD and digital cable channels."

People on here saying that cable DVRs are just as good have never used Tivo. I have used Directtv and Comcast DVRs and they both were horrendous compared to Tivo. They barely functioned and took like 20 extra convoluted button clicks to do what tivo does in 3, and then may or may not actually record what you want.
Tivo may not be the cheapest, but that extra few dollars is well worth it. In my case, Comcast was charging $17 a month for their DVR, I am paying $13 plus $1.50 for the cable card with Tivo HD (that I got for $99 at tivo.com). Even if it cost the same or more I would still use Tivo and consider that extra cost to be well worth it.
If you don't want the hassle, then stick to the cable DVR and keep deleting the 500 repeats it records even when you request new episodes only. Tivo users will continue to giggle behind your back while enjoying hassle free DVR goodness.

I own one of these and I can tell you IT IS THE SINGLE BIGGEST PIECE OF ELECTRONIC JUNK WE OWN. And I can tell you the reason why Tivo is unloading these on Woot. It's because there's what Tivo calls an "analog defect" on the device. If you hook it up to a standard cable box, without cable cards (hey, you are supposed to be able to do this), it will randomly stop working and go into a grey-screen "freeze of death" in which you have to physically go to the machine and restart it. This is really terrific when you go on your two week vacation and come back and find out that on day 2 it froze up and didn't record ANY of your shows while you were gone! Plus, its so bad that Tivo "currently has no fix and hasn't found the source of the problem." They still charge you the monthly charge, even though they have NOT solved the problem for their thousands of customers with the analog signal defect. They've replaced this with a new box that doesn't have the problem, however, so DON'T buy this one!!!

SuperTully wrote:All right, let's get serious. You can get a DVR from your Cable provider for $5 per month, so what does Tivo offer that a cable provider doesn't?

Mainly it is the bleep bleep sound that all Tivos make...

Comcast is getting a version of Tivo soon so maybe there won't be much of a difference in the future but for now... the interface is so much easier to use.

In my local market they are charging $10 for their DVR that isn't Tivo so the extra $3 for Tivo isn't that big of a deal. No you don't have to buy the DVR from the cable company but really, once you have had Tivo, nothing else really compares.

fairnymph wrote:A TiVo *is* a specialized DVR so if you got one, it would REPLACE your Comcast DVR, and you'd need to get a cable card (or two) from Comcast.

You would no longer be charged the DVR rental fee, but you'd be charged a cable card rental fee, and that's usually about the same price (sometimes it is a bit cheaper - I think it might be $5 with Comcast). And you'd still have to pay your normal 'service' to Comcast to get channels of ANY type - how much would depend on what channels you want and yes, HD is more (whether you have their DVR or a TiVo, you'll have to pay for HD).

And then you will have to pay a $15 monthly fee on top of that TiVo for your subscription. So it is more expensive, but it's so worth it. For a bit over $100 you can buy a terabyte drive that you can hook up to the TiVo and that will give you way more space, which is seriously necessary if you record a lot of HD programs. (Some DVRs provided by cable companies can be compatible with external hard drives that expand your recording capacity, but if you're not technically adept, it's going to be a hassle, if it's even possible for your particular DVR. Whereas the terabyte external hard drive for TiVo is MADE FOR TIVO and works seamlessly with it, virtually no set up required - basically plug and play!)

*anywhere* you use a TiVo, you will need a cable card if you have cable. So using a TiVo at a location where you currently have no type of DVR, would indeed increase your monthly costs, but again, it's so worth it to be able to record.

I use my TiVo HD without cable cards since I subscribe to a "basic" cable package. This option is available to anyone. Plus, as I described on page 4, you can access the free HD channels on Comcast via the Clear QAM tuner for free. This is not advertised, but it's an option.

davejensen wrote:It's because there's what Tivo calls an "analog defect" on the device. If you hook it up to a standard cable box, without cable cards... it will randomly stop working and go into a grey-screen "freeze of death" in which you have to physically go to the machine and restart it.

Firstly, using this without cable tv + a CableCard is (in my opinion) a huge waste, you're missing some of the best functionality and CableCards are cheap to rent. Second:

DezertRat wrote:Ahhh... That problem. It seems to have mostly gone away with the latest update... I did have that happen as well - and it was quite annoying. That said, I could usually get it to "unstick" by channel up/down on one tuner then on the other...

I'm quite confused as to why I have to pay a subscription fee when it requires no further intervention on TiVo's part once it's installed... royalties?

Tivo allows you to rank your future recordings. If you schedule a new recording that conflicts with your established schedule, the software warns you of the problem and lets you choose to truncate the lower ranked show. Never worked for me, one of the shows was always dropped. Kind of irritating, especially these days when shows don't seem to start on time EVER. I had to schedule my shows with a little extra time before and after, and I never was able to schedule 2 shows that aired one after the other. You CAN schedule a block of time, but usually with Tive you schedule by title, choosing show A then show B and so forth, other ways of schedule lose all the advantages of the interface. Of course, the networks now know that most people skip through commercials, so they put all of those irritating banners running at the bottom of the screen during the show. How fakon is that? So now, basically, I can't confidently auto-schedule a program, and I can't skip the commercials. I bought my Tivo a few years ago through Woot, and when it failed last Christmas I just got rid of it. Don't like paying for cable to get ads, and then paying for Tivo again for banner ads I can't get rid of. I record with my Hava (also a Woot) and still get the ads, but at least I'm not paying as much for them...

imsochady wrote:Is there a way I can remove the movies/shows recorded here and into my computer?

There are a couple of ways. You can buy the Tivo desktop software from Roxio ($30) or there's an OS X widget that will download programs and convert to Divx (Making an hour long program about 750mb instead of 8gb with the roxio software.) You'll need to have an ethernet connection to the TIVO to do this with any speed.

Someone also posted a Win7 Java app that's free, too.

HBO, STARZ, and other pay shows are blocked from downloading, but there may be a hack.

Linkiboy wrote:I'm quite confused as to why I have to pay a subscription fee when it requires no further intervention on TiVo's part once it's installed... royalties?

Tivo is a subscription, the Tivo box is just the conduit. If your box breaks down they'll give you a loaner until your own box is fixed.

It is really hard to find an online listings guide that is both accurate for your area and functional with whatever DVR you are using. Tivo works, and they have a very pretty interface. Dare I say it? It's very Mac-like in that it executes a basic function beautifully, it is addictive and has cornered the market.

If you have compatable hardware, check out TitanTV.com. Its free and the listings can be picked up using mouse-over hovering, you may be able to use it to program your DVR...

kmith wrote:i get ota hd atsc programming [no dish; only internet cable]

what will this tivo do that my htpc won't?

Record two shows at once.

bobster99 wrote:
Comcast is getting a version of Tivo soon so maybe there won't be much of a difference in the future but for now... the interface is so much easier to use.

Comcast did have a deal with Tivo to add their software to Comcast's boxes. They rolled it out in New England only, I believe. The catch is the customer paid an additional fee for the software, on top of the DVR fee they were already paying.

bobster99 wrote:Mainly it is the bleep bleep sound that all Tivos make...

Comcast is getting a version of Tivo soon so maybe there won't be much of a difference in the future but for now... the interface is so much easier to use.

In my local market they are charging $10 for their DVR that isn't Tivo so the extra $3 for Tivo isn't that big of a deal. No you don't have to buy the DVR from the cable company but really, once you have had Tivo, nothing else really compares.

Comcast has been promising Tivo software on their DVRs for 4 years. It's not happening so far. I've had many DVRs, but the TIVOs are the best. Very intuitive, often they add extra minutes automatically to programs that run over time, or that follow sports events. The menus are easier to navigate. They play Netflix, YouTube, Amazon HD downloads,basically all the subscription on line stuff, but they don't do cable company "on demand"content. You have a lot of options for your season passes and repeat recordings that you just don't have on the Motorola boxes from Comcast, or many of the Scientific Atlanta boxes (I don't know about all of those.)

For everyone asking about cable company DVRs, and the why should I pay, thing, it's because these are a better experience, flat out.But it may not be worth what they charge to you if that's your only consideration.

You can't use the TIVO tuners with satellite boxes. You can probably hack them to convert the analog signal, but that would hardly be worth it.

I'm only paying $3.00 for both of the tuner cards from Comcast for my TIVO, so, like the user above, it's actually cheaper for me, after the purchase price, of course, to use the TIVO, than to use the Comcast DVRs at $10.00 a month. I have two of those, and they SUCK! Plus, no ethernet connection on them, so D/Ling content to computer requires USB and a hack (which is more of a pain than it's worth).

6319mori wrote:Beware of Tivo - You will need to purchase a subscription (either monthly or lifetime). Unfortunately, the lifetime subscription is not for your lifetime, but rather the lifetime of the unit. So when the hard drive wears out after a couple of years (as most computer hard drives do) or some other malfunction occurs, you are stuck with a broken unit - Tivo will not let you buy another unit and transfer your subscription.

That's true, usually...they had an offer for owners of older Series 1 players with LifeTime service some years, where buying a Series 2 permitted a transfer of the Lifetime service to the (then) new unit at no charge. But they've done this very seldom, and I don't know if they've done it at all recently. If I had to guess at a reason, I think they would do that when maintaining compatibility for the old boxes on the network crosses some sort of pain threshold.

As for breakdowns, 6139mori and other posters are right, replacing the Hard Drive is probably the most common problem, but it's something some medium-savvy people can do themselves (plenty of online step-by-step guides for that), and for not much money, you can pay somebody else to do it (sometimes in your own city without suffering shipping charges).

I've had this Series 2 for 5 or 6 years...getting LifeTime service for it was a really good investment for me. It just requires a big chunk of available money up front, which of course not everybody has.

Monthly service is about $15, or with some "pay the year up front," sometimes less. The breakdown:
monthly 1 year 2 year 3 year
13 156 312 468
15 180 360 540

Even if you have to pay full price($399) for Lifetime Service, if you use your Tivo (and it lasts without breaking) for less than 3 years, you win). Even paying a hypothetical 10 bucks a month, you still win at 3 years 3 months.

I've had mine for 5 years, so it's saved me a lot of money.

Does the cable company offer their own DVRs? Yes, but they're much more irritating to use than the Tivo I use now. Some people are evidently willing to bend over backward duct-taping together customer Tivo equivalent systems using Linux and web services...I admire them, but it's not for me.

RCN does business in my area and they offer a Tivo Premiere (but not the XL version with the big drive, or the good THX audio) at $19.99 per box per month. Over three years, that's a whopping $719.64. If you even use them as your provider.

Some people think you can get everything you need from the 'net (via Netflix, Hulu, whatever). I'm not convinced. Yet. So I estimate I'll still be watching cable three years from now. If that's true, buying an XL unit with lifetime service saves me money.

Note that if your TV has a DVI input, an HDMI-->DVI adapter will not pass the HDCP key from the TV to the TiVO. This means you'd have to use the component video outputs.

SuperTully wrote:All right, let's get serious. You can get a DVR from your Cable provider for $5 per month, so what does Tivo offer that a cable provider doesn't?

If you have to ask that question, you've never owned a tivo. It's more than features and functionality. The DVR units offered by most cable companies will do most of the same things that tivo does, but tivo just seems to do them better. From the remote to the user interface, tivo has put a lot of thought into making their system easy to use. Cable company DVRs seem to spend most of their time catching up with tivo's features and not a lot of time on user-friendliness. Tivo will also do several things that most cable company DVRs won't do, like record Season Passes and record other shows it thinks you might like (based on what you watch). Most importantly, you can keep your tivo, even if you switch cable companies (so you don't have to pay another DVR install fee or sign a long-term contract just to get a DVR).

I own this particular model of Tivo (my third tivo unit) and I absolutely love it. It handles high-def and regular-def content well, and I can transfer recordings between this one and my other units to watch them in different rooms. The eSATA port on the back is great if you need more storage space (no more need to open it up and swap out the hard drive). I can even control it using my smartphone if I'm connected to the same wifi network.

Back when tivo couldn't do HD, I got a DVR from my cable company and hated it. When I moved, I got a different cable company and a different DVR. That one was just as buggy, hard to use, and clunky as the first one. When I saw tivo had released an HD version, I drop-kicked the cable company's DVR to the curb and never looked back. I recommend this model to anyone looking for a DVR as well as anyone who is tired of their current one, especially at this price.

If I didnt already buy a regular tivo HD from woot and a series 3 from woot I would have jumped on this. Very happy with my woot tivos. Still going strong. To hell with the cable company cable box.

swechsler wrote:No, you need to have a subscription for each box, otherwise you've just got yourself a boat anchor. And the S2 can only play non-HD programming from the S3, so it would be of limited usefulness at any rate.

Ahhh ... good to know re: could only have played certain programming from the S3. Thankyou

cyraxote wrote:Note that if your TV has a DVI input, an HDMI-->DVI adapter will not pass the HDCP key from the TV to the TiVO. This means you'd have to use the component video outputs.

I am doing this with my DVI input on my tv but with a series three. I wonder why they removed the ability with Tivo HD.