RogerHarris wrote:No, you don't need class 6 cards for 720p video -- even REAL 720p, which this camera isn't. I have three Canon point-and-shoot cameras that shoot high-quality 720p at 24 megabits per second (3 MB per second), so a good class 4 card is sufficient. This Sylvania seems to use about half that bit rate -- about 1.5 MB per second -- so even a class 4 is overkill. Using a card that can accept data faster than the camera can produce it doesn't do anything useful.

I have a camcorder that shoots in "real" 720p, and I can see a noticeable difference between Class 4 and 6 cards (I use name brand cards). It may be that the cards don't continuously write at their stated rates.

RogerHarris wrote:I'd call it false advertising, but fraud is probably more accurate.

Hmmmm, that's also really the word I was looking for, too.

NightGhost wrote:I have a camcorder that shoots in "real" 720p, and I can see a noticeable difference between Class 4 and 6 cards (I use name brand cards). It may be that the cards don't continuously write at their stated rates.

I use some SanDisk and some Kingston cards, some class 4 and some class 6. Stepping through the videos a frame at a time, I see no dropped frames at all on the class 4 cards, and that's the only difference there could possibly be.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what class SDHC card you "can" use in this device.

The manual states 2 or 4, but I'm using an 8 and have no problems w/the video. Well, let me rephrase...the quality isn't great using a 2, 4 or 8. Using the recommended classes (2 or 4) will not result in better video; using a higher class, 6-8-10, won't result in better or worse video. NOTE: My problem w/this camera isn't the cruddy video, it's the annoying buzzing in audio playback.

That said, if you're going to shell out for a new SDHC card for this thing, spend the extra $1-3 to upgrade in class; you'll be able to use the higher class card in another device once you realize this Sylvania cam stinks.

Just my two pfennig.

Video quality is sub-par; sound emits a buzzing sound. Terrible. Not worth $10, let alone $40. Sending mine back.

I agree with the person that said it is crazy that you need a memory stick and it is useless because there is a buzzing sound making the audio no good.

RogerHarris wrote:I use some SanDisk and some Kingston cards, some class 4 and some class 6. Stepping through the videos a frame at a time, I see no dropped frames at all on the class 4 cards, and that's the only difference there could possibly be.

Maybe I should try Kingston.

Nandeska, Ko Nandeska.. Sylania beat Sony again!

The only reason I'm glad I bought this when Woot launched it last time is so that I didn't buy it this time. The quality on this device is terrible. I'll put up a video showing it off soon- but I have a standard def Flip cam and it looks/sounds better than this faux-HD piece of junk.

Can you return stuff to W00t? I want a refund. Badly.

Especially because the original W00t deal lied- said that the item had an HDMI port- it doesn't. It's MiniHDMI, which should have been distinguised, regardless of the pictures.

I got the camera on Wednesday or Thursday last week, and while I was a bit put off by all the negative commentary here, I still plan on giving 1 to each of my kids (aged 9 and 10) as they keep wanting to use my expensive camcorder to make videos.

Out of the box, the battery was partially charged and I was able to record 40 seconds of video on the built-in 64MB RAM. So, about 1.5MB/second. But once recorded, I wasn't sure how to delete it -- I guess this is done at the computer. The video playback was a little noisy, and as I listened closely it almost sounded like a reel-to-reel film being played, softly. No loud buzzing like other posters stated. Video is decent enough for my kids to play and experiment. I also bought 4GB SDHC memory cards from amazon for $8 each -- about 40 minutes of recording time.

I think the kids will have fun with these. They will learn some basics of shooting, like slow-panning, avoiding using digital zoom, the benefits of good lighting, putting video onto the computer and sharing it with friends.

I originally bought 3 -- one for each of the kids and a spare in case one breaks, doesn't work, or is lost. I couldn't see spending $80 for the panasonic, even if it's a better quality camera. The $40 is a good introductory price point.

jbnwc wrote:Video quality is sub-par; sound emits a buzzing sound. Terrible. Not worth $10, let alone $40. Sending mine back.

How do you send it back? I read the FAQ, but don't quite get it.

NightGhost wrote:Maybe I should try Kingston.

I used Kingston SD cards up to 2 GB for many years without any problems, but I've stopped buying their class 4 SDHC cards after having the plastic disintegrate around the edges on several 8 GB cards (the black-plastic class 4 ones -- I haven't had any problem yet with the blue-plastic class 6 ones). As someone else said, these days you might as well buy the class 6 or faster since they aren't that much more expensive. But if you already have a class 4 card, upgrading to class 6 won't help this Sylvania camera, which is all I wanted to point out before anyone wasted money on a class 6 for it.

Wow- you get what you pay for.

I got one of these a couple of weeks ago here on Woot and I'm happy with it considering how cheap it was. I wanted something easier to tote around than my regular digital camcorder and Nikon camera. If you're looking for National Geographic quality work, you're definitely not going to find it here.

If you want something that slips into your pocket to catch everyday things you wouldn't normally get (unless you carry around your 'good' camera/camcorder everywhere you go) this is a good option. It's cheap enough that if it gets lost or dropped you're not going to get upset..

It is very user friendly too which makes it a huge plus for me.

I was looking forward to getting mine. but after seeing the video's it will be a Christmas gift for my daughter or one of my nieces. Sylvania stick to light bulbs Woot you lost asllot of creditability on this one... thanks for the info on the Toshiba Camileo S20 keep my eyes on that one. thinking of doing a comparison shoot though HD1Z vs Iphone 4 camera!

peregrineslinger wrote:How do you send it back? I read the FAQ, but don't quite get it.

click on the 'write us" link above, right.

you will see:

---------------->
Please, please, PLEASE read carefully before you send an email. Make sure your issue is appropriate to the address you click on. If you send a service question to the purchasing department, don't be surprised if it languishes in email purgatory.

One last try, before you write us: did you post in the community forums? It might be the fastest way to get an answer, if you can wade through the crazies. Ok, on to our addresses:

To request a final return of a defective product – not a product you don't like, not a product you regret buying, not to ask us a question about some other topic, NOTHING ELSE:

rma@woot.com

<--------------

As the link says only for defective items, not stuff you regret or are unhappy with though. Mine did not work so they sent me an RMA no problem. The thing is if it works and you just aren't happy with it I don't see how or why they would take it back.

I saw a post that said the problem is these cameras are all shaky.

That is true, they have a super simple product on Amazon called the Stedi stock, it is about $20 and will make it easy to hold the camera steady.

For the price this is not a bad camera, if you are going to film the sequel to "something about Mary" I would use a more expensive camera.

If you are going to film your child shooting a free throw... IT WORKS GREAT....

What really would be bad is to buy this camera for $80

These small video cameras are great. For what they are. The limitation is the poor lenses these things have. Same with cams on phones. A real camera has a great lens. That's why there are still high quality cameras being sold every day. If you have a Blackberry or something similar, you only need this to put your masterpiece on Youtube immediately. God help us all.

I'm not sure what all the negative reaction is about, I watched 3 different test videos on Youtube and thought they looked fine if not impressive. The video was clear if a little jumpy and the zoom was impressive. I guess I just don't think video from a pocket sized camcorder is something you should be expecting to play on your 42" HD LCD, especially at $45. I bought 2 from the last go-around and plan on giving them to my mom and mother-in-law for taking videos of our forthcoming newborn. I don't expect them to film the next Oscar contendor on them.

This video camera has exactly the quality of video that I would expect from a 40 dollar HD video camera.

cjpowers wrote:Perhaps you are not familiar with how Woot works. If they had to actually take posession of the inventory, they could not keep the prices so low. It is drop-shipped from the manufacturer or distributor, so they are not "stuck" with anything. The more they sell the more they make, so I am assuming that these sold well 2 weeks ago (when I got suckered in :-)

I am witholding judgement until mine arrived.

Sorry dude, that is simply not true. Having all your inventory 'drop shipped' does NOT make you more money. Companies that drop ship charge a pretty penny for the service and are generally 'middle men' which cuts into any profit even more. You'd be paying MORE, not less if Woot was one of those websites that only sells items that are drop shipped.

Woot has a huge warehouse and ships their products in their own little woot boxes. Do you think all their product distributors have cute little woot boxes to drop ship only to Woot's customers? Uh, no.

You should probably have a basic idea of how e-commerce works before posting B.S. as if it were fact.

jar37 wrote:I'm not sure what all the negative reaction is about, I watched 3 different test videos on Youtube and thought they looked fine if not impressive. The video was clear if a little jumpy and the zoom was impressive. I guess I just don't think video from a pocket sized camcorder is something you should be expecting to play on your 42" HD LCD, especially at $45. I bought 2 from the last go-around and plan on giving them to my mom and mother-in-law for taking videos of our forthcoming newborn. I don't expect them to film the next Oscar contendor on them.

I'm expecting mine today, late afternoon EST. As others have posted, I will reserve judgment until I try it out.

The problem may be one of quality control - i.e. some of the cameras are defective (and obviously the better YouTube videos came from better units).

Regarding shaky video, sometimes that reflects the photographer's shaky hands or unsteady monopod and not the camera. And the issue with the white balance constantly readjusting would seem to be due to too much fast panning (it IS a $40 camera).

However, many of the complaints have been about other, more serious issues. This is advertised as 720p - if it's truly interpolated, sub-DVD resolution, that's not as advertised. But the outdoor video I linked to on the first page doesn't look bad at full-screen 720p on my 30" monitor, and it was shot through a window.

Another issue is the buzzing sound, which seems to vary from camera to camera. If it's more than minimal, I would say that would render the unit defective.

There were other issues posted - mini-HDMI jack when the description says HDMI, noisy images, cameras shutting off in mid-use.

Arguably, if you don't like a camera that has one of the abovementioned defects, you are demonstrating buyer's remorse (as long as the problem isn't too awful). But if a camera has several of these problems, it IS defective - it would be unreasonable to argue otherwise.

I hope that the majority of buyers weren't expecting the quality of a full-sized, $200-plus camcorder. But there are decent 720p pocket camcorders available at around $60 (e.g. 2nd gen Flip, Vado), and I think we were expecting at least their quality, given that this is Woot and it was a launch product.

If these are "only good for kids," that's not good. I got mine to slip in a pocket and take to my sons' ballgames, or holidays/parties with friends and families - i.e. situations where decent video is better than none.

Since Woot sells only one item per day here, I think we also expect that they try out their products in advance. But I've read enough posts here to know that you should take them in the aggregate. I have a camcorder with the dreaded Polaroid name that was sold here at Woot (I discovered Woot when I googled the model). There are some awful reviews for it on Amazon and Woot - and some good ones. I'm very happy with the quality it has provided for the money. I've gotten some stellar comments on some of the videos. On friend even asked if I had taken them with a professional camera (to be fair, I don't think she had even seen a homemade HD video before).

Often poor video is the result of poor photography. Many amateurs fail to follow the two most basic rules: keep the camera steady, and keep the light behind you.

Okay - enough rambling. Hopefully, I'll be able to add my review to the mix in a few hours.

Bought this a while back on a previous woot. Very disappointed with this thing. Video is very poor. Buttons are about to fall off and only work half the time. Sound is terrible.

Avoid this and save your money.

mjmoon wrote:Sorry dude, that is simply not true. Having all your inventory 'drop shipped' does NOT make you more money. Companies that drop ship charge a pretty penny for the service and are generally 'middle men' which cuts into any profit even more. You'd be paying MORE, not less if Woot was one of those websites that only sells items that are drop shipped.

Woot has a huge warehouse and ships their products in their own little woot boxes. Do you think all their product distributors have cute little woot boxes to drop ship only to Woot's customers? Uh, no.

You should probably have a basic idea of how e-commerce works before posting B.S. as if it were fact.

Nearly all of my Woot purchases were shipped from their Texas warehouse (a couple of food items from wine.woot weren't).

However, not all of your statements are necessarily accurate:

I used to be one of the owners of an internet drop-ship business. We sold some products for less than those on their home websites, others the same, and some for more. Our supplier "sold" us their products at wholesale prices, since they were happy to get the additional business.

Also, some drop-ship companies do provide their branded boxes to their suppliers.

NightGhost wrote:Nearly all of my Woot purchases were shipped from their Texas warehouse (a couple of food items from wine.woot weren't).

However, not all of your statements are necessarily accurate:

I used to be one of the owners of an internet drop-ship business. We sold some products for less than those on their home websites, others the same, and some for more. Our supplier "sold" us their products at wholesale prices, since they were happy to get the additional business.

Also, some drop-ship companies do provide their branded boxes to their suppliers.

I worked in e-commerce for several years and maybe I just never encountered your company or companies like yours. The vendors we had that drop shipped always charged us a fee for the service, and the product didn't come at the wholesale price we paid when we bought inventory for our store. We generally only used dropshipping in a dire emergency.

Hey Dad, turns out the camera I'm giving you for Christmas is a piece of junk. Better luck next year. Maybe your other sons will give you quality gifts. Oh yeah! one more thing. Can I borrow 40 bucks?

peregrineslinger wrote:The only reason I'm glad I bought this when Woot launched it last time is so that I didn't buy it this time. The quality on this device is terrible. I'll put up a video showing it off soon- but I have a standard def Flip cam and it looks/sounds better than this faux-HD piece of junk.

Can you return stuff to W00t? I want a refund. Badly.

Especially because the original W00t deal lied- said that the item had an HDMI port- it doesn't. It's MiniHDMI, which should have been distinguised, regardless of the pictures.

Woot doesn't normally accept returns for "Buyers Remorse", but from what I've read about this camera, it drops frames when the processor can't keep up with the video, which is most of the time. Woot advertised this camera as recording at 30FPS, so if the camera can't really RECORD at 30FPS, it must be defective, right? The fact that the resulting video is encoded at 30 FPS doesn't count if the camera failed to actually record the video. Inserting blank P-Frames is not recording.
I'd say that everyone who bought this and has discovered that their camera drops frames, has grounds for an RMA. Thirty FPS is 30FPS, not 15FPS with gaps.

mjmoon wrote:I worked in e-commerce for several years and maybe I just never encountered your company or companies like yours. The vendors we had that drop shipped always charged us a fee for the service, and the product didn't come at the wholesale price we paid when we bought inventory for our store. We generally only used dropshipping in a dire emergency.

Well, there are BtoB companies out there that do nothing but drop ship.

garyoa1 wrote:Well, there are BtoB companies out there that do nothing but drop ship.

I don't disagree with that. But Woot, I'd bet money on, is not one of them.

There may be some drop ship companies that offer great deals.. but I believe that is the exception, not the rule.

True story: I work for a non-profit org and needed to video a special event. I bought a Flip for $37 (on sale) from Wally World and it had audible noise in the recording. So I got a DXG which worked fine. The Flip got stuck in a drawer and forgotten (receipt lost) for a year.
I emailed Flip a YEAR later and they sent me a replacement newer model! They actually wanted to find out what was wrong with the one I bought!
Keep that in mind when you are shopping for one of these gadgets.

Magiciandude wrote:For $40, you get what you pay for. That's a good deal for the video camera if you ask me. I bought one last woot-off, and I'm sure I'll use it for less important events/fun...

absolutely spot on.
It's a flippin' $40 vid cam, fer Goodness sakes, ppl expecting to make the next Avatar with it might be a tad disappointed.

Quality too low in "HD" to be of any use. The audio sounds like a motor is running near the mic. This one definitely NOT worth the low price.

Wanted to complain about paying an extra five bucks for it two weeks ago. Now, after reading the posts, I simply want to not accept it when it arrives...

great for the kids, not for an adult who wants to cherish memories.

EPIC FAIL.

hate mine so much I gave it to goodwill already (and I feel badly for the goodwill shopper who wastes $5 on it).

If woot cared they would refund everyone's money or give us a free shipping certificate or SOMETHING because this product was not worthy of the woot name.
k

mjmoon wrote:I don't disagree with that. But Woot, I'd bet money on, is not one of them.

There may be some drop ship companies that offer great deals.. but I believe that is the exception, not the rule.

We certainly agree that Woot does not drop-ship - usually. The Krave jerky that I ordered in the last Woot-off was shipped from Sacramento in a box bearing the Krave logo.

A giant internet retailer that often drop-ships is - Amazon! That's essentially what they do with their affiliate program - You buy on the Amazon site, and the item is shipped by the affiliate.

Obviously, there are pluses and minuses to that business model. But consider that the end-retailer never touches a product - no handling costs, no inventory costs or hassles.

It's a particularity good model for a smaller, lesser-known company. Optimally, a larger, better-known company shows the product to the public. The smaller company offers its products at a wholesale price, but sales volume increases.

Sometimes the customer gets a better deal from a drop-shipper. But things may get dicey if there's a problem, since he's essentially buying from (at least) 2 companies. The longer the chain, the higher the probability of a weak link.


Getting back on topic, that's somewhat analogous to the deal for this camera. AFAIK, the Sylvania name is currently licensed by Funai. Funai definitely sells some good products, but this camcorder was presumably manufactured by a no-name Chinese company, and the Sylvania name was then slapped on. That doesn't mean it's bad, but it does mean there's more opportunity for shenanigans than there would be with a company that oversees its own factory(s) (whether or not they're in China).

LemonAtty wrote:Wanted to complain about paying an extra five bucks for it two weeks ago. Now, after reading the posts, I simply want to not accept it when it arrives...

It was launched at this same price.

R70Runner wrote:I'm hoping the one I ordered in the launch 12/10 arrives by Christmas? Still nothing on the tracking number "No information for the following shipments/FedEx Office orders has been received by our system yet. Please try again later"

I would ck with Woot.Mind is at the Fedex in Orlando,and will be here tomorrow.

OH NO.... I ORDERED IT BEFORE READING THE FEEDBACK ON THE CAMERA. I HOPE THEY CAN CANCEL THE ORDER. I'LL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN.

Could someone please post an example of the still images this camera is able to take?

Ok since most of hte people who bought it and found themselves upset are complaining about actual techinical issues and the people who bought it and are saying "It's fine if we don't think we're shooting Avatar" are being kind of...wrong...Is there anyway we can all just return this piece of junk en masse?

Seriously, I'm an amateur/indy film maker who has been using Mini DV for 6 years and has also used a Flip Cam for 3 months now. I wanted a cheaper HD cam to shoot some basic reality and humor stuff. The quality of this camera is godawful though- you couldn't even shoot a VBlog on this thing. It looks like bad VHS security footage from the late 80s, and sounds worse.

And yes, I know those tapes rarely recorded sound. That's part of my point- the audio on this thing is so bad if I ever wanted to edit ANYTHING, even an informal, spontaneous review of something I just watched (see my website) I'd have to dub it over.

I don't have to be making Avatar, but heck, John Waters wouldn't have shot a movie on this piece of junk back in the late 70s even if it was time-traveled to his doorstep.