USB 2.0 isn't close to obsolete muchless 3.0. They just are not the newest thing. There are far more USB3.0 devices available than Thunderbolt devices and who knows if it will take off (remember Firewire was a lot better than USB, but really never took off as the standard). I don't know about royalties to Intel/Apple, but there are a lot of things that factor into whether or not it will take off or not.

apple controls, what 3% of the market vs pc (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2008/10/apple-continues-to-outperform-the-overall-pc-market-tops-9.ars this all major manufacturers, all of which are windows minus servers and Linux, so 3% is a good guess. if you have a better figure please share it) so that means thunderbolt is going to be another apple proprietary I/O. so, if you buy a printer, usb drive, external hdd, web cam, sd reader, video adapter, or what ever else there is that isnt an over priced (cr)apple product or proprietary device it will be usb. im guessing thunderbolt will be obsolete in 1.5 years.

vincentwachowiak wrote:I have this very computer. I bought it at best buy for more than the WOOT price. Generally good, but here are my gripes :
The front audio in/out minijacks are very noisy. The video card fan (i think) runs at full speed all the time, making it rather noisy. I bought it primarily for audio editing/recording, so that sucks. Gonna have to swap the video card even though I don't even really use it for gaming.

Hey, I built a computer three or so years ago now and everything came out great except the audio had a little noise in it that I couldn't ever get rid of (sometimes it even made a scratchy sound when I scrolled windows!). I dropped a few $$ on an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro USB audio interface and my audio is now crystal clear. It would be worth checking out. I am so happy with mine, since I built my box for A/V work.

a8le wrote:wow, nice specs. too bad it's a refub. people really that much power nowadays?

whats so sad is, microsoft is behind it all with even slower, resource hungry os and phasing out old techs with triple moore's speed

johnrallison wrote:Hey, I built a computer three or so years ago now and everything came out great except the audio had a little noise in it that I couldn't ever get rid of (sometimes it even made a scratchy sound when I scrolled windows!). I dropped a few $$ on an M-Audio Fasttrack Pro USB audio interface and my audio is now crystal clear. It would be worth checking out. I am so happy with mine, since I built my box for A/V work.

ya, audio leads from the case to the to sound headers are usually sloppy and the number one cause of interference.try running your headphones directly to back of your MB. if that doesnt work getting a new audio card is usually the easiest and sometimes the cheapest solution.

Ed3rd wrote:Our of curiosity, have you ever plugged your system into a Kill-a-Watt or something similar?

yes I have actually.
I have a 1000w Max output PSU, and I have had it stable draw from the wall at 1000w(its 80% gold certified, BFGtech GamerXtreme, 4 +12vRails, so this means about 800w output to the system).

With no video cards, it drew 400 for the CPU, RAM, Board, and 5 fans, and 2 HDDs, this was however under no load, as I had nothing installed except the OS to get board drivers in place before putting in the video cards.

Figure, if you use the PCIex16 slot in full, that is 175w for the board right there, and about 10w Per HDD, and around 10 per fan.

Plugged it in after I got it all installed, and for my rig It drew 1200 from the wall with 2 GTX460s, an slightly overclocked AMD PhenomII 955BE, and 8GB of ram, and with all my fans at full RPM, and 2 HDDs, while running a 2 hour long furmark burn test. Hopefully I dont need to get a bigger PSU when I get 2 580s, but I may have to if the 460s pull that much.

glendower wrote:
And 16GB? What kind of crazy talk is that? Crazy, that's what kind!

Yea, I have 8GB of RAM in my laptop, and 8GB in my desktop. With a 64bit OS, many of the restrictions of the 32bit X86 days are gone. I was just playing minecraft today, and it was using 1.9GB of RAM. Really, the reason to have more RAM is multitasking. The OS can still be plenty fast in the background while the task at hand is fast too. 16 is a bit much, but if you run photoshop, you can eat thru 8GB in no time. and always figure, even with windows 7, the OS will use between 1 and 2GB of RAM, so if you only have 4GB, that leaves 2 for EVERYTHING ELSE. In this case, and now days, 4 is not enough, but 16 is almost too much. 8 is just about right, for now. Also, seeing Blackops use 2.5GB worth of RAM on high settings is kind of scary. HAWX2 was using 2.9GB in DX11mode. I have seen photoshop CS4 use 4GB before too, so with RAM being as cheap as it is now, more is better, and programs will use more and more.

peterwu wrote:whats so sad is, microsoft is behind it all with even slower, resource hungry os and phasing out old techs with triple moore's speed

wow, well some of your post makes sense.

microsoft is behind it all - not really. there are what, 30 or so pc manufacturers that constantly compete against each other out side of MS. and if you dont like it get a mac and if you really dont like it get any pc you can find/afford/build and run Linux. intel is the big hardware name, not MS.

slower, resource hungry os - 95 good, (more revolutionary)
win 98 take your opinion
win 2000 good
win me bad
win xp better then great its good!
win vista bad bad
win 7 good
win 8????
so ya, designing an os istnt exactly easy. give 'em a break or go to linux and stop paranoid androiding.

phasing out old techs???????


triple moore's speed- moore didnt have a speed. he said every 2 years, you can place twice as many transistors on the same integrated circuit board. its still going on and expected to continue until at least 2020

lombrosis wrote:Folks, 6 cores at 2.7GHz is plenty to play any PC game out there right now, as is 8GB of RAM. The major issue is the video card. Drop $100-150 on a decent card and you'll have an OK gaming system. Calling any system with a 5450 a gaming system is laughable.

No kidding. If you're doing it right, you should spend more on the video card than the AMD CPU you bundle it with, and at least as much for an Intel chip. Personally, my GPU cost $150 (HD 5770) versus the CPU (Athlon II X3 440), which cost $75. That rig (with only 2GB RAM!) kicks the crap out of whatever pre 2008 and most post 2008 games you can throw at it (excluding Crysis, but Crysis 2 runs like a champ).

well, I decided to pass after all. (Sorry, Woot!)

I just can't get the funds together at this time for this system and the video/power upgrades. I will likely wait until summer, which isn't such a bad thing.

Thanks again for the good reads on the forum and answering my questions as well as those of others.

pitchleague wrote:well, I decided to pass after all. (Sorry, Woot!)

I just can't get the funds together at this time for this system and the video/power upgrades. I will likely wait until summer, which isn't such a bad thing.

Thanks again for the good reads on the forum and answering my questions as well as those of others.

good call, i speced this out in newegg. i came up at 630 for a little better

1.5 tb drive
same MB
5670
corsair 430
8 gigs of gskill ripjaws. 4x 2 gigs
cpu- 1044t
win 7 home pre 64 bit oem

pick your case

pirate943 wrote:like i said, get a console if you dont care about graphics.

Why would I get a console if I prefer a keyboard and mouse and all of the other perks of a computer? I have consoles, for the record, but it's because some of the best games are exclusive to them, or designed for them in such a way that they're more fun on console, or because my multiplayer options are better (in part because some people I know only play the games on console).

But that's not the point. I play games for fun and for competition, not to show off. Your corvette analogy isn't correct. It's more like opting to pay $50 for an amusement park that has the exact same stuff as an amusement park for $200, only the $200 one looks prettier and I could say, "Hey, look at me, I'm in a $200 amusement park, and it looks gooooooood!"

Now, if what the other person said is true, and indeed this can't handle games at decent frame rates even at the lowest settings, then I'd agree this is not a gaming system.

Oh well.. in a way, this is a silly argument. I've just been searching for a good computer for a while and reading people's comments and everyone always says, "you'll have to upgrade the GPU and PSU." No one ever says, "unless you're okay with lower settings."

P.S. The heads are not square even at the lowest settings. Lol.

chubbysumo wrote:I hate to say that you are wrong, but you are. The TDP is Thermal Design Power. Its the amount of HEAT the CPU puts off, not the amount of energy it draws.
My personal rig is as follows
Asus M4N98TD EVO AM3 mobo
AMD PhenomII x4 955BE @ 3.4
8GB DDR3 Giel ValuRAM @ 1066
2x Nvidia based GTX460 1GB
2x500GB WD HDDs

For my rig

The graphics cards alone are rated at 300w max draw for power(they have 2 6pin plugs each, and this means 150w from the PCI express port, and 75w each for the 6pin plugs.). The AMD phenom 955BE is a 125wTDP CPU, but it is rated to draw up to 270w(it is powered by an 8pin plug just for the CPU), and each RAM stick uses about 10w, and each fan in it will use between 6 and 30w(depends on the fan, look at usage ratings, I have 5 13w fans in my case.).
Each USB port uses between 2 and 15w, and the HDD will use about 15w.

Link to thubian 6 core wattage usage under load
http://www.techspot.com/review/269-amd-phenom2-x6-1090T-and-1055T/page9.html
Granted, this is a higher model than the one in this computer for sale, but figure it would only use about 20% less wattage.

What TDP means
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power

Look up the rest on your own, i hope this has been informative, and educative, because I know my computers.

I'm sorry to say, but I'm still not the one who's mistaken about this. : )

I know perfectly well what TDP means. The thing is, nearly all electricity that's used by a processor is converted into heat, so the amount of power that the processor's cooling must be able to dissipate (its TDP) should be equal to or higher than the maximum power the processor will draw under full load. A processor with a TDP of 95 watts will require cooling that can dissipate a maximum of around 95 watts worth of energy that has been converted into heat, to properly cool the component. The TDP provided by the manufacturer may not be completely accurate, but it should generally be reasonably close to or higher than the maximum amount of power the component will draw.

If you want proof, measure the amount of power used by your computer from the outlet while under load, using something like a Kill A Watt electricity load meter. The actual power used by your components will be about 80 to 90% of that value with a decent power supply, since some energy is wasted as heat by the PSU itself. I'm sure the actual power drawn by your system will be much less than you expect.

Quite simply, there's no way your processor will draw 270 watts under load. Maybe you saw a benchmark where they listed total system power consumption under load with that particular processor, which could be about right. Likewise, there's no way your GTX 460s are each drawing 300 watts under load, unless you're referring to both of them added together. Just because the connectors attached to the components might be capable of supplying a given amount of power does not mean that much power is actually being used by the component.

Here's a review for your Phenom II X4 955BE processor where the 'entire system' only drew 182 watts running Prime95 on all four processor cores...
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-x4-945-and-955be-processor-review-test/4
The review you linked to is the same. They're measuring the wattage used by the entire system during these tests, not just the processor.

Of course, I'm sure your system does require more power than the average gaming computer, since you have a rather high-end dual video card setup. With both cards and all processor cores under full load, the components could easily draw over 500 watts from the PSU, so you'd likely want at least a good 700 watt power supply to make sure the lines powering the cards are able to supply sufficient power. Having an even higher-end PSU would be fine too though, but probably not required.

In any case, you seem to be overestimating the amount of power PC components actually draw. I probably wouldn't have responded in such detail if you didn't seem so convinced I was wrong. Plus, I can't leave misinformation laying around on the net uncorrected, now can I? ; )

pirate943 wrote:wow, well some of your post makes sense.

microsoft is behind it all - not really. there are what, 30 or so pc manufacturers that constantly compete against each other out side of MS. and if you dont like it get a mac and if you really dont like it get any pc you can find/afford/build and run Linux. intel is the big hardware name, not MS.

slower, resource hungry os - 95 good, (more revolutionary)
win 98 take your opinion
win 2000 good
win me bad
win xp better then great its good!
win vista bad bad
win 7 good
win 8????
so ya, designing an os istnt exactly easy. give 'em a break or go to linux and stop paranoid androiding.

phasing out old techs???????


triple moore's speed- moore didnt have a speed. he said every 2 years, you can place twice as many transistors on the same integrated circuit board. its still going on and expected to continue until at least 2020

You sort of need two columns (maybe 3!) for your window chain, though

Windows 1 -> Windows 2 -> Windows 3
Windows NT and OS/2, NT3/3.51, NT4, NT5 (2K), XP, Vista, 7
Win95, 95SE, 98, ME

I started using NT at home at NT4, that made all of the 9Xs seem pretty awful. 98 was tolerable for some games, but for anything real and the OpenGL games (the Quakes) that ran under NT, NT was superb. I still use XP predominantly and only moved to this from 2K because of my Zune. I have a secondary boot to win7, which is nice, much nicer than Vista which i loaded and discarded pretty quickly (but i still have Business and Ultimate on disc... you know... just for the sake of completion, just like the DOS 4.01 discs I still have around... never ran it, but have the discs :D ). Um. Oh yeah! THe point is that I agree with most of your good/bad ratings, but sometimes it seems more erratic than it was because of how they mainstreamed NT and still sold the 9x line of junk (ME is the worst thing they've ever made and was more of a stop-gap because NT5 kept getting pushed back and back and back until it was Win 2000. I picked that up to just to see it... ugh... what a miserable heap. Where is my command prompt!? So there was a line that was building off of DOS (even though ME wanted to pretend it wasn't there) and a line that was building from an OS they started building with IBM to work with the N-10 processor (hence NT) that was known as OS/2 first, that diverged into 2 separate products... what a mess. I still have fond memories of NT4.

bottledwater wrote:It's obvious I'm not a gamer? Actually, I would argue that I'm a hardcore gamer -- I grew up on games and was probably playing games before you were born. That's probably why having the highest quality graphics isn't the most important thing to me. All that really matters is that I'm not lagging or choppy, so that I can headshot my opponent without hesitation. If it looks pretty too, well that's icing on the cake. But games these days are so beautiful that they look good even on some of the lowest settings. I'm not worried about seeing a zit on their face when I get close to them. If a game needs good graphics to be fun, it's not a good game.

Yep! It's pretty common for the hardest core of gamers to crank their graphics way down so the screen isn't cluttered and they can maintain the highest possible frame rates. I remember when I first learned that around the time that competitive gaming became a big thing (and Thresh won Carmack's Ferrari!). I'd see where their settings where-- while we plebes were struggling to get a balance between playable and pretty, they just threw out all the pretty. There were hacks that would just remove textures!

Woo Hoo! Got a tracking number today. Shows delivery on Friday. So hopefully have the weekend to get the thing setup and running.

Bingo969 wrote:Woo Hoo! Got a tracking number today. Shows delivery on Friday. So hopefully have the weekend to get the thing setup and running.

Good for you! My show to be by the end of the day on the 19th But hey, first time recall getting tracking number from Woot.

Got my tracking number today, too - delivery is scheduled for Friday. Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend... *Squeee!*

So I just got mine today...and I cant even get to Bios. its asking me to reboot and slect proper boot device or to insert boot media...but it didnt come with anything. Anyone have a suggestion?

EDIT:
Check inside the casing guys. HDD wasn't plugged in.

Arrived this morning, works great.

I received mine today, but for some reason it keeps getting the blue screen of death. Everything appears to be working but after a few minutes of it being on, it either shuts down with no warning or I get a warning message but not enough time to read it and then shuts down.

Received mine today as well. Everytime I power it on, it freezes up in less then a minute.

I've gotten as far as selecting English, and then it freezes up.

Got my hopes up for nothing.

Any expert advice would be appreciated

ThunderThighs wrote:Well, I'm no expert and this isn't official advice, but before I turn on a desktop that I just received in shipment, I open the case and make sure all the boards, memory sticks, and cables are seated properly and tightly. I figure they can come lose in shipment. Might be worth a try.

Yep. Did that before I called the Asus support #, which I got from a sticker on the outside of the box the computer was delivered in. There's no boot disk, or recovery disk provided. Just the tower, keyboard, and mouse. Woot showed a disk in the picture along with the computer.

Not sure if having a recovery disk would solve the issue(freezing up at start up) I'm having with the computer Woot sent me... but again, any advice someone could give me would be appreciated

I received my ASUS computer yesterday. Hooked it up and started it up....it started to load, then gave me an error code saying windows did not successfully shut down please choose which way to boot up (Safe Mode, Safe Mode Networking etc.) Which ever I chose, it gave me just a black screen with a cursor. I even let it sit for an hour and it never got out of the black screen with the cursor on it. I was able to do a disk check and it found several errors before hanging up on a black screen.

I have enough computer knowledge that I checked all the internal power connections and plugs. Nothing was loose. Still will not work.

I've heard good things about ASUS but when you save your money for a whole computer setup and the computer you get doesn't work....you lose a little faith in that brand. Sorry Woot, this ones coming back to you for a return. I'm sticking with HP.

Spartacus47 wrote:I received my ASUS computer yesterday. Hooked it up and started it up....it started to load, then gave me an error code saying windows did not successfully shut down please choose which way to boot up (Safe Mode, Safe Mode Networking etc.) Which ever I chose, it gave me just a black screen with a cursor. I even let it sit for an hour and it never got out of the black screen with the cursor on it. I was able to do a disk check and it found several errors before hanging up on a black screen.

I have enough computer knowledge that I checked all the internal power connections and plugs. Nothing was loose. Still will not work.

I've heard good things about ASUS but when you save your money for a whole computer setup and the computer you get doesn't work....you lose a little faith in that brand. Sorry Woot, this ones coming back to you for a return. I'm sticking with HP.

I'm having the same issue, and totally agree with you. I heard good things about Asus as well, and "was" excited about getting this computer. Now... very disappointed.

Mine was waiting when I got home from work about 2 hours ago. Fired right up and is running great. No problems so far. I'm fairly happy with mine.

Oye. I have nothing really useful to add other than to say I'm really sorry to hear about those of you having problems with this.

That really blows, I know.

For what it's worth, mine went through the half hour or so of updating and installing and then had to reboot.

It never was able to shut down, just stayed on the "Windows is shutting down" screen so I had to force it off with the power button.

I got the black 'Windows didn't shut down properly' screen and chose normal startup and haven't had any problems since.

I'm going to keep my fingers crossed and yeah, I really feel for you guys. Maybe Asus or Woot will replace it for you? I gotta think this thing is worth a second shot.

Good Luck -

Bingo

I got my computer yesterday, but still no word on when the companion 23" display Woot offered for sale that day will ship. I temporarily connected to my TV to test the computer operation. No place to plug into my network there, so no updates were loaded yet. Everything worked OK.

Did anybody else get that "Famous Maker" LCD display offer? I better not be the only one that has not received shipment notification. I disposed of all my old CRT displays about 3 years ago and have nothing else but my TV to use right now.

After installing the drivers everything would fail... then BSOD. reinstall with same operating system and install drivers from the site works. pain in the ass but its better then dealing with ASUS or woot to fight with warranty.

bfhammer wrote:I got my computer yesterday, but still no word on when the companion 23" display Woot offered for sale that day will ship. I temporarily connected to my TV to test the computer operation. No place to plug into my network there, so no updates were loaded yet. Everything worked OK.

Did anybody else get that "Famous Maker" LCD display offer? I better not be the only one that has not received shipment notification. I disposed of all my old CRT displays about 3 years ago and have nothing else but my TV to use right now.

I ordered one too, and no additional information.

+1 to the number of buyers who received a non-functioning machine. It ran a recovery diagnosis before it could even load windows and determined that the computer was irreparable. I hope I don't have to deal with hours of Asus technical assistance just to return it.

Oh, and I too ordered the 23" monitor with it, and also have no update on when it will ship.

FYI for those not getting any display... It looks like the top two monitor outputs (the onboard ones) are not meant to be used. In woot's picture, they're covered with black caps.

When I opened my box only the DVI port was covered, so I tried the top VGA port - no luck. Took the cover off of the top DVI port and tried it - still no luck.

Plugged in to the bottom DVI port and seems to be working now.

So, in short:



My hard drive power was also unplugged, but after I plugged that it everything seems to be chugging along just fine.

ETA: Seems like the case on mine has seen better days... Since when does "refurbished" mean "beaten to a pulp?" This is my first refurb PC purchase (anywhere) so maybe I'm not sure what to expect, but still...

bfhammer wrote:\
Did anybody else get that "Famous Maker" LCD display offer? I better not be the only one that has not received shipment notification. I disposed of all my old CRT displays about 3 years ago and have nothing else but my TV to use right now.

Got a response to my inquiry about the display. Mine apparently shipped last Thursday the 14th, but never got an email nor was my order updated with the status changed to "shipped". Got my tracking # directly after emailing customer service.

Looks like I'll be using the Asus for real by the end of this week.

Got mine today, case looked pretty doggone new, no issues.

Do as was stated above, use the display ports on the video card, not the ones up by the USB area. The onboard graphics come disabled because it comes with a graphics card. Mine had caps on them but i see how it could be confusing for anyone who has never had a graphics card.

I opened mine up, checked all connections, pushed the card and ram in tightly. There were none that seemed loose but just thought I would make sure. Hooked it all up and turned it on in the back, the front ASUS logo came on. Pushed the reset button and it started purring. Let it go through the motions and then made my boot disks from the prompt.

No issues here. If it matters, I used my existing mouse, power cord and keyboard. My only complaint is the lack of a phone jack for softmodem, but I'll deal with that some other way, I rarely need to fax anything anymore.

got mine last night - after finding the HDD's power cord wasn't plugged in, it booted and installed windows just fine.
...then the BSOD started appearing.

seems random - sometimes after a couple minutes of being powered on.

Guess i get to call ASUS and see what the return policy is.
bummer

Mine was running great since Friday.

Yesterday, it also started up with regular BSOD's.

sigh

Seems a great machine. I might try giving Asus a call but not sure I want to mess with this being a problem already.

Most likely will contact Woot for a return tomorrow.

Shame too! I really liked this.

Received mine yesterday. I know it's a refurb, there's two long scratches on the side and it looks like someone took a sharpie to make the scratches black to match the case. Really?

Everything was fine for me until I installed the PCI wireless card. Win7 recognized it no problem and installed drivers and the wireless found my network. Problem is that I can't log on my network. It won't accept my security key to the network. I know for sure that the password is correct. I've checked it on all my wireless devices and checked my router. I even changed the password, but no luck. Will be trying another PCI card tonight to see if it works. ANY IDEAS? HELP!

I'm disappointed with this PC. This is the second refurb I've brought from woot and probably my last.

rexxx911 wrote:Received mine today as well. Everytime I power it on, it freezes up in less then a minute.

I've gotten as far as selecting English, and then it freezes up.

Got my hopes up for nothing.

Any expert advice would be appreciated

Super late reply, but I'd suspect that the heatsink wasn't seated properly against the CPU. That sounds like overheating to me. I hope you were able to exchange it-- if you want, remove the heat sink, clean off the gunk and put some decent compound on there like Arctic Silver (someone told me that they sell it at Radio Shack now) and see if that helps. If you don't want to tool around with it, send it back.

I am experienc the same problem. Also did a memory scan with no error but after reboot it was recovering a lot of files. Not sure what that means but I requested a RMA from Woot.

Spartacus47 wrote:I received my ASUS computer yesterday. Hooked it up and started it up....it started to load, then gave me an error code saying windows did not successfully shut down please choose which way to boot up (Safe Mode, Safe Mode Networking etc.) Which ever I chose, it gave me just a black screen with a cursor. I even let it sit for an hour and it never got out of the black screen with the cursor on it. I was able to do a disk check and it found several errors before hanging up on a black screen.

I have enough computer knowledge that I checked all the internal power connections and plugs. Nothing was loose. Still will not work.

I've heard good things about ASUS but when you save your money for a whole computer setup and the computer you get doesn't work....you lose a little faith in that brand. Sorry Woot, this ones coming back to you for a return. I'm sticking with HP.

Mine came in DOA. Packing it up and shipping it back, we'll see how it goes.