promyst


quality posts: 30 Private Messages promyst
viperdude08 wrote:An image search on the google of Kai Tan yielded unexpected results (NSFW).




You're right!!!

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blanked


quality posts: 10 Private Messages blanked
kevlar51 wrote:how do these stack up to Wusthof?



both are high quality brands that hold edge well for decades. the angle of shun knives are shallower (I may be getting the terms wrong) and can be harder to hone at home do to that angle. 15 vrs 45 I think.

Er and by saying high quality I mean the parent brand and not these things in particular.

quaack03


quality posts: 0 Private Messages quaack03

Anyway you slice it....I'm going to pass......

bradenmcg


quality posts: 8 Private Messages bradenmcg
angerbender wrote:Wooden blocks are hard to clean inside. And you know a spider crawls down there at some point.



You shouldn't need to clean inside them. Put away your knives DRY, paper towels work well for this.

Also, many blocks actually are through-holes... "canned air" will get rid of any spiders that get in there.

promyst


quality posts: 30 Private Messages promyst

The blades are made of Daido 1K6 grade steel

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alcatrazal


quality posts: 0 Private Messages alcatrazal

So, has there ever been a Woot that has never had a sucker? These would go great in a Big o' Cosmos.

bpr2


quality posts: 181 Private Messages bpr2

Are these pre-washed? (too soon?)

that was fun while it lasted!

yodamaster


quality posts: 0 Private Messages yodamaster

I wonder what the woot record is for longest time without a sucker

sciuchetti


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sciuchetti
MisterRon wrote:Prove it! Give a link.



http://www.epinions.in/crate-barrel-sale-50-off-kai-tan-ren-knives/2011/03/28/

promyst


quality posts: 30 Private Messages promyst
sciuchetti wrote:http://www.epinions.in/crate-barrel-sale-50-off-kai-tan-ren-knives/2011/03/28/



That's the 6-piece set vs. today's 9-piece set

Although that could be considered a much better deal

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rachel1127


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rachel1127
ericshmerick wrote:These are Shuns. Good price for nice Made in Japan steel.





They're Shuns, but not the usual quality steel. This line was developed for Crate and Barrel as a cheaper option because they thought their clientelle wouldn't spring for the higher quality Shuns.

I'm sure it's a still a good price for this line, but not some super fabulous deal on "Shun" knives.

Greshmahg


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Greshmahg

(Putting on knife snob hat):

These knives fall into the mid-range portion of the spectrum. Better than your "Chef Tony Miracle Specials" or your Ginsu's that non-cooks and the newbies use, but nowhere near as nice as the real Shun's, Kasumi's, or Mac's of the world.

They've got some good things going for them: The knife block is slit sideways (blocks that slit up/down require the blade to be inserted edge down, which dulls the edge), and they have a decent Rockwell rating.

The negatives, however, outweigh the benefits. The handles become very slippery when they get wet, which increases the risk of injury. The steel used is not as of high quality as higher end blades. The knives themselves don't have enough heft to them to be considered a "go-to" blade for heavy duty chopping. The balance is not quite right on them given the odd tang design.

I own knives from a lot of manufacturers. Everything from the Kasumi Titaniums to the Mac Ultimate to the ceramic Kyocera Damascus line all the way to the Shun Ken Onion/Kaji/Kramer and Wusthof Grand Prix II lines. I would not welcome these into my collection, and certainly not at this price. If this is your price range for a set of knives, consider the katana line from Calphalon. I'm not so much a fan of those either, but for the price range, they're a better buy.

These are as much Shun knives as Henckel knives with the one-man logo are Henckels compared to the ones with the twin-man logo - which is to say, not really at all.

Truelyscrumptious


quality posts: 12 Private Messages Truelyscrumptious
angerbender wrote:Wooden blocks are hard to clean inside. And you know a spider crawls down there at some point.

Wooden blocks are for people that want to show that they have expensive knives but don't use them. That's why I have a magnetic strip that I'm installing up on the wall behind the sink. That's the safest place to store knives for easy access in my kitchen.

Greshmahg


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Greshmahg
Truelyscrumptious wrote:Wooden blocks are for people that want to show that they have expensive knives but don't use them. That's why I have a magnetic strip that I'm installing up on the wall behind the sink. That's the safest place to store knives for easy access in my kitchen.



Magnetic strips are for people that want to show off their expensive knives, but not use them (or for people who have way too much free space in their kitchen). That's why I use a Kapoosh block for all my knives

craigthom


quality posts: 62 Private Messages craigthom
ericshmerick wrote:These are Shuns. Good price for nice Made in Japan steel.



No, they aren't Shun knives. They aren't made of the same steel, for starters. This is a line made by Kai for Crate and Barrel.

Not all cars made by Volkswagen are Porsches, and not all knives made by Kai are Shuns.

Lolamonkey


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Lolamonkey
kevlar51 wrote:how do these stack up to Wusthof?



The Wusthof are better quality - with Wusthof, you get a knife which is now sharpened to a steeper angle than Shun. The metal with Wusthof doesn't risk chipping the way that Kai knives can (yes, I speak from an abundance of personal experience). But the Wusthof knives are also more expensive than these.
As for the handle smell, they can't even figure that out. They know that often their knives and/or blocks might not be cured by the time they get them into the warehouse (due to backorders and so forth). They swear the smell goes away eventually, but in the meantime, customers complain about their hands picking up the smell. That seems scary...

Lolamonkey


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Lolamonkey
craigthom wrote:No, they aren't Shun knives. They aren't made of the same steel, for starters. This is a line made by Kai for Crate and Barrel.

Not all cars made by Volkswagen are Porches, and not all knives made by Kai are Shuns.



SO RIGHT!

craigthom


quality posts: 62 Private Messages craigthom
blanked wrote:from the description these sound stamped not forged as these are not of the 'premium line'. If you care enough about the heft of the knife to spend money on an expensive brand you would want forged for anything other than a travel deboner and a bread knife.



While these aren't Shun knives, Shun knives themselves aren't forged.

While forged knives may have been superior to cut ones fifty years ago, these days that's not true. It's just a myth propagated by those selling forged knives.

MRubenzahl


quality posts: 0 Private Messages MRubenzahl
propenguin wrote:Has anyone used this brand before. I am pretty happy with my pampered chef just wondering how these compare.



Vastly superior to Pampered Chef.

Greshmahg


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Greshmahg
kevlar51 wrote:how do these stack up to Wusthof?



It's not really fair to compare these to Wusthof's. Not only because of the quality difference (though Wusthof makes a better knife), but because Wusthof makes German style knives, and these are Japanese style knives.

German style knives typically have more heft and a thicker cutting edge. Japanese style knives are typically lighter and have a much narrower cutting edge. Japanese knives are built for precision and agility; German knives are built for durability and heavy lifting with longer periods between honing.

A more fair comparison would be to compare these blades to a Mac or a Kasumi - which these completely fail against, even though those other brands are significantly more expensive.

Bingo969


quality posts: 11 Private Messages Bingo969

From what I can find, these used to be a line offered exclusively through Crate & Barrel stores. Or maybe even still is.

Old literature from the stores stated that these were edged with 2mm of 1K6 High-Carbon Stainless Steel.

To get really geeky and technical and really overanalyze things... 1K6 steel is comprised of:

Carbon: 0.6%
Chromium: 13.5%
Molybdenum: 0.1%

Similar steel to VG2 though not quite the same. VG2 is generally considered good steel for a knife though VG8 is better and 10 is what the ultra purists go for.

So in a nutshell, it's a very budget knife made by a great company. Low enough that they didn't want to put their actual name on it but quality enough that they'd at least assosciate with it.



dthacker9


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dthacker9

My culinary hero, Alton Brown, has no end of unkind things to say about the cleanliness of wooden blocks. I'm not taking a stab at this one. (pun intended)
Dave

Quippish


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Quippish
blanked wrote:from the description these sound stamped not forged as these are not of the 'premium line'. If you care enough about the heft of the knife to spend money on an expensive brand you would want forged for anything other than a travel deboner and a bread knife.



The description is clear, these are molded through a MIM process. They will have little in common with stamped knives. These have far more in common with forged knives.

They will not have the nice "watered steel" look seen in Shun's tradition forged knives.

sl8763


quality posts: 4 Private Messages sl8763
Greshmahg wrote:(Putting on knife snob hat):

These knives fall into the mid-range portion of the spectrum. Better than your "Chef Tony Miracle Specials" or your Ginsu's that non-cooks and the newbies use, but nowhere near as nice as the real Shun's, Kasumi's, or Mac's of the world.


Wow, really good info. Would you be able to recommend a knife set in the $500-$600 range? I do quite a lot of cooking and have always lusted after a set of professional-grade knives that I could be proud of owning for many years. I've been looking at Global, Shun, and the pricier Wusthof and Henckels. One of my issues is that there's so much product diversification (especially with those last two brands) that it's hard to figure out where the point of diminishing returns is, and where I'd just be paying extra for marketing.

Before I alienate my fellow Wooters, I am a cheap mofo 99.9% of the time, but this is a gift to myself after finally landing a good job (been looking since getting laid off in '09).

quartermane


quality posts: 6 Private Messages quartermane
promyst wrote:The blades are made of Daido 1K6 grade steel



Why didn't you say so earlier. I thought they were only Daido 1K5 steel. Now that I know they're Daido 1K6 grade steel I'm in for 3. Hatori Honzo uses only Daido 1K6 grade steel. If you want any better, you have to allow Adamantium and then you're up to Wolverine grade steel.

Greshmahg


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Greshmahg
jgreen0101 wrote:$300 for something most people don't have to replace very often... gtfo.



I've got individual blades that were well over $1,000. The price isn't the problem. The quality is the problem.

jgreen0101


quality posts: 7 Private Messages jgreen0101
Greshmahg wrote:I've got individual blades that were well over $1,000. The price isn't the problem. The quality is the problem.



touché, if you have a need for such high end hardware, then the price comes with the quality, and these wouldn't be it for a world class chef ;).

Greshmahg


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Greshmahg
sl8763 wrote:Wow, really good info. Would you be able to recommend a knife set in the $500-$600 range? I do quite a lot of cooking and have always lusted after a set of professional-grade knives that I could be proud of owning for many years. I've been looking at Global, Shun, and the pricier Wusthof and Henckels. One of my issues is that there's so much product diversification (especially with those last two brands) that it's hard to figure out where the point of diminishing returns is, and where I'd just be paying extra for marketing.

Before I alienate my fellow Wooters, I am a cheap mofo 99.9% of the time, but this is a gift to myself after finally landing a good job (been looking since getting laid off in '09).



It's impossible to give you a recommendation, because it all depends on what feels good in your hands.

In terms of Japanese knives in that range, my personal favourite are the Kasumi Chroma Titanium line (full 5 piece set can be purchased here for about 600 bucks). Besides the fact that they are the absolute coolest looking knives on the planet with that blue colour, they're damn fine Japanese blades (for point of reference, Robert Irvine of "Dinner Impossible" fame uses these). The blue also serves a purpose: It's titanium, which reduces sticking to the blade when you're cutting. But some people don't like the way they feel, they want something with more heft.

In an instance like that, I would probably recommend the Chef series from Mac, which you would have to assemble on a knife-by-knife basis. Rob Rainford of 'License to Grill' uses these. I believe Kelsey of Kelsey's Essentials does, as well.

If German is your thing, the Henckel Twin Cuisine has a lot of heft and a great full tang that a lot of people appreciate. Mario Batali used to use them. The Wusthof Grand Prix II line is always a great choice. Messermeister makes a great mid-range line for about 600, though the model escapes me.

I know you said something about Globals, but I have no experience with them. Aside from the fact that I find them about as attractive as a 400 pounder's ass after 4 hours of explosive diarrhea and no toilet paper, they don't feel comfortable in my hand.

psychomuse


quality posts: 0 Private Messages psychomuse
craigthom wrote:No, they aren't Shun knives. They aren't made of the same steel, for starters. This is a line made by Kai for Crate and Barrel.

Not all cars made by Volkswagen are Porches, and not all knives made by Kai are Shuns.



I don't think ANY cars made by VW are "porches"!

paulpnevada


quality posts: 26 Private Messages paulpnevada
angerbender wrote:Wooden blocks are hard to clean inside. And you know a spider crawls down there at some point.



No spiders because the cockroaches eat them all.

craigthom


quality posts: 62 Private Messages craigthom
sl8763 wrote:Wow, really good info. Would you be able to recommend a knife set in the $500-$600 range? I do quite a lot of cooking and have always lusted after a set of professional-grade knives that I could be proud of owning for many years.
...



I would recommend buying individual knives instead of a set.

I don't think you need to spend a lot of money for a serrated bread knife of a paring knife. There are inexpensive ones that do a fine job.

Get a good chef's knife, though. It doesn't need to be a beautiful hand-made one, but it should be something that is comfortable in your hand and has a good edge.

Go to a store and try several knives, if you get a chance. And, unless the price is crazy, buy it from the store that let you try it.

paulpnevada


quality posts: 26 Private Messages paulpnevada
angerbender wrote:Wooden blocks are hard to clean inside. And you know a spider crawls down there at some point.



On a serious note, if you put your knives in the block when they are clean and dry, there is nothing foreign that is going to go in the knife slots. On the odd chance that you are still obsessing about this I would suggest that you get a bud vase brush and use that to brush out any imagined contaminants from the slots.

craigthom


quality posts: 62 Private Messages craigthom
psychomuse wrote:I don't think ANY cars made by VW are "porches"!



It's late. Fixed.

theefen


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theefen

Interesting. As a chef I am always looking at knives. I found some insight here.

craigthom


quality posts: 62 Private Messages craigthom
Greshmahg wrote:If German is your thing, the Henckel Twin Cuisine has a lot of heft and a great full tang that a lot of people appreciate. Mario Batali used to use them. The Wusthof Grand Prix II line is always a great choice. Messermeister makes a great mid-range line for about 600, though the model escapes me.

I know you said something about Globals, but I have no experience with them. Aside from the fact that I find them about as attractive as a 400 pounder's ass after 4 hours of explosive diarrhea and no toilet paper, they don't feel comfortable in my hand.



I've got a Twin Cuisine chef's knife (thanks to Linen 'n' Things going out of business and liquidating inventory). It's pretty, and the sideways tang is unique, but, boy, does that thing weight a ton.

I don't think Global knives are that ugly, but I just don't like the way that bumpy bulb handle feels in my hand. I like the shape of their blades. Maybe I would get used to the handle if I spent more time with it.

bleepbloop


quality posts: 4 Private Messages bleepbloop

I cook almost all my meals and I have a $150 8 inch Shun, a $1000 set of stainless handled Wusthof's and the knife that Cook's Illustrated keeps going back to - the Forschner Victorinox Fibrox 8 inch Chef's knife and it's my favorite. Sharpens up razor sharp with my little sharpener (Accusharp) also recommended by Cook's Illustrated and doesn't slip in my hand, has a thinner blade like the Shun and cost me $20 on Amazon a few years ago. They're around $30 now. You can run through a lot of Victorinox knives for $300. Cook's tests the more expensive knives and always comes back to this brand.

See it here on Amazon

...anybody want a peanut?

sl8763


quality posts: 4 Private Messages sl8763
Greshmahg wrote:It's impossible to give you a recommendation, because it all depends on what feels good in your hands.


Nice, I really appreciate it. Lots to look into here. I've handled a few brands at the store and generally liked the lighter knives - I feel like I could do more work with them without hand fatigue. I like what I'm seeing from Mac, so will research them a lot more. Those blue Kasumis are pretty awesome though

Greshmahg


quality posts: 50 Private Messages Greshmahg
craigthom wrote:I've got a Twin Cuisine chef's knife (thanks to Linen 'n' Things going out of business and liquidating inventory). It's pretty, and the sideways tang is unique, but, boy, does that thing weight a ton.

I don't think Global knives are that ugly, but I just don't like the way that bumpy bulb handle feels in my hand. I like the shape of their blades. Maybe I would get used to the handle if I spent more time with it.



Yeah, tonnes of heft on those bad boys. It's great for the chef's knife, the santoku, and the bread knife. But for the pare knife or the slicer, they weigh too much for what those types of knives are designed to do.

theefen


quality posts: 0 Private Messages theefen
Greshmahg wrote:It's impossible to give you a recommendation, because it all depends on what feels good in your hands.

In terms of Japanese knives in that range, my personal favourite are the Kasumi Chroma Titanium line (full 5 piece set can be purchased here for about 600 bucks). Besides the fact that they are the absolute coolest looking knives on the planet with that blue colour, they're damn fine Japanese blades (for point of reference, Robert Irvine of "Dinner Impossible" fame uses these). The blue also serves a purpose: It's titanium, which reduces sticking to the blade when you're cutting. But some people don't like the way they feel, they want something with more heft.

In an instance like that, I would probably recommend the Chef series from Mac, which you would have to assemble on a knife-by-knife basis. Rob Rainford of 'License to Grill' uses these. I believe Kelsey of Kelsey's Essentials does, as well.

If German is your thing, the Henckel Twin Cuisine has a lot of heft and a great full tang that a lot of people appreciate. Mario Batali used to use them. The Wusthof Grand Prix II line is always a great choice. Messermeister makes a great mid-range line for about 600, though the model escapes me.

I know you said something about Globals, but I have no experience with them. Aside from the fact that I find them about as attractive as a 400 pounder's ass after 4 hours of explosive diarrhea and no toilet paper, they don't feel comfortable in my hand.



... The MAC line of knives while extremely good purchases are not "hefty" at all. they are in fact quite light. I am one of those cooks that enjoys hefty knives. All of the knives mentioned are relatively over priced (except kasumi) Their popularity has driven prices up. Tojiro DP series are an unbelievable deal. For the home cook this series is amazing. Professionals tend to use much higher levels of artisan knives. The cheaper makers being around 250 a knife to the higher ones ranging from 500 to even several thousands.

Global knives are also very light and very decent knives. Be careful.

another side note that left handers may appreciate.
Shun knives are frequently made with right handed handles. The blades themselves are not right handed but the handles can be somewhat uncomfortable for left handed folks.

sl8763


quality posts: 4 Private Messages sl8763
craigthom wrote:I would recommend buying individual knives instead of a set.

I don't think you need to spend a lot of money for a serrated bread knife of a paring knife. There are inexpensive ones that do a fine job.

Get a good chef's knife, though. It doesn't need to be a beautiful hand-made one, but it should be something that is comfortable in your hand and has a good edge.

Go to a store and try several knives, if you get a chance. And, unless the price is crazy, buy it from the store that let you try it.


Cool, thanks for the reply I've definitely considered buying individuals vs a set. You're right, it makes little sense to spend extra on things like a bread knife or a fancy block (paring knife I use quite a bit, but I have a few of those already). That Hattori is super nice.