moxxee wrote:Some of the high end models (ie Precor) don't require lubrication because it's embedded into the belt and it gradually releases onto the deck. Some lower-end models tend to require frequent lubrication and can void the warranty if it's not done!

when that lube runs out over time... what then?

$800 for a treadmill? I'd rather spend $150 on good shoes and then... you know. Run.

moxxee wrote:I hear ya. Why not try an elliptical? It's much easier on the knees...

Elliptical is terrible on the lower back. I'd rather my knees take it since they're designed to work that way.

I'm a service technician for an fitness equipment store, so treadmills is what I do! We sell a range of equipment including Precor, BH, Horizon, Lifecore, Schwinn and others. The good old rule of "you pay for what you get" applies in the case of buying fitness equipment. If you're looking to train for a marathon or do serious running, a $500-$1000 treadmill is not for you. For the casual runners or walkers a smaller, cheaper treadmill will do fine. Just be careful about the warranty. Some companies require you to register the equipment within a certain time frame or else the warranty is a no-go! Some also require frequent lubrication of the belt. I've only run into a few Smooth treadmills over the years and the only gripe I have is that whenever we try to order parts from Smooth, they screw it up each and every time and it takes up to 3 or 4 tries before we get the correct part.
As a final caveat, be careful when buying this stuff online and do your research about the company before you buy! The warranty is only good as long as the company is in business!
All the best to my fellow wooters in their weight loss efforts!

sdc100 wrote:Get yourself a hi-tech bike. There is no impact on the knees or any joints, and it offers resistance, which is the best form of exercise. Treadmills don't, although you can wear weights -- which unfortunately, increases the impact on your joints. Resistance is important not only for the muscles, but it also increases bone density.

...you do realize that because running is a weight-bearing exercise, it DOES offer resistance (More than bikes, actually) and it DOES help with bone density? Running is one of the best forms of exercise for anyone without bad knees/joints/etc.

eatingjuice wrote:$800 for a treadmill? I'd rather spend $150 on good shoes and then... you know. Run.

The problem is that when you run to the extreme limits of your endurance, you will find yourself miles from home with no energy to get back.

On the other hand, if you run to the extreme limits of your endurance on a treadmill, then the shower and a sofa are just a few more steps.

You might still want to buy the good shoes, though...

skywarrior3 wrote:Max weight of 300 lbs seems a little light, given the size of people who may want to use this machine to lose weight.

Agreed. I wonder if that 300lbs walking or running. Needless to say, 300lbs running puts more impact on the treadmill than walking.

bpr2 wrote:when that lube runs out over time... what then?

Time to replace the belt! If you use a belt that's worn, the breaker on the machine and possibly the outlet will start tripping, and it runs the risk of blowing out the lower electronics board because the motor is trying to draw too much current from the wall. However, depending on the use, the belts shouldn't wear down too fast.

sdc100 wrote:Get yourself a hi-tech bike. There is no impact on the knees or any joints, and it offers resistance, which is the best form of exercise. Treadmills don't, although you can wear weights -- which unfortunately, increases the impact on your joints. Resistance is important not only for the muscles, but it also increases bone density.

I recommend a hi-tech bike only because you can have different programs, which makes exercise much more interesting. And it can optimize your goals, i.e. strength, aerobic or endurance, as well as provide feedback. Our Schwinn 140 simulates various terrains, increasing and decreasing resistance automatically while monitoring our heartrate. You can also program in two individual profiles, which helps chart progress. We got it for $200.

Great info. Thanks!

I've worked on this machine before. Smooth in general makes good machines. The warranty is very nice: five years part warranty tells you that they have confidence in their machines. It's quieter than other treadmills you'd find at this price range, and will last longer on average than a department store model.

Its not at all flashy; there are units on the market from other makers that simulate real world trails, incline up to 40, and in some cases will even function as a tablet (Nordictrack's newer models). This is relatively void of bells/whistles. The console is very basic, almost retro in design. The speakers won't replace your sound system by any means. Heart rate is not entirely accurate, but by brand is a comparatively great guess.

At 2.75 hp, the motor is solid, but not built for a family of marathoners. This is a machine for joggers/light runners who like occasional sprints, not someone training to hunt ostriches with bowie knives. For ostrich hunting, you want 3.5 hp, min.

The 2" rollers are decent. Large rollers reduce heat, friction, overall needed tension, and wear. As with the motor this isn't commercial grade but it exceeds consumer grade. As a rule of thumb you want rollers that, removed from the treadmill, can double as blunt weapons. 2" rollers do have the advantage over 2.75" rollers in this regard; they are easier to wield in a pinch. (**Please do not use treamill or parts as a weapon**)
Maintenance on the machine is essential. Friction will lead your machine to an early grave. You want an enclosed environment for your treadmill, as free from kicked up dirt and pet hair as possible. The part to keep clean is the walking deck underneath the belt. Keeping the side free of debris should do this. I've found some interesting things in belts, from puzzle pieces to starbucks cards; your children will play with this machine. Moral is, keep watch and have it maintained annually.

This is a good machine for people who want to spend a little more for peace of mind. It will not break down unreasonably, as will anything you buy from walmart. It is made of better materials than those in department stores. It will stay relatively quiet. Keep in mind, though, that this is a home machine, and is priced as such. Gym quality machines cost around five times the price shown on this sale, because they are built to take abuse. That said, this machine will take abuse, so your body doesn't have to. Plus, unless you're planning on keeping this at the office and you don't telecommute, you won't have to drive far to use it. Put it next to a tv and watch a documentary on cheetahs, you'll be fine.

Shipping kills it.

Roostalee wrote:Now if they can only make a treadmill that actually takes you places.

Don't they call that walking?

zaidwise wrote:Maintenance on the machine is essential. Friction will lead your machine to an early grave. You want an enclosed environment for your treadmill, as free from kicked up dirt and pet hair as possible. The part to keep clean is the walking deck underneath the belt. Keeping the side free of debris should do this.

A kindred spirit! You will appreciate this: a few days ago I had a service call where a family on a farmstead had an old Image 10.0 that had motor problems. Where do they store it? In the garage! I couldn't believe it when I saw the tread sitting there sandwiched between a Tahoe and a Silverado. And I kid you not: I found a dead mouse near the treadmill and had to spend some time cleaning out the motor compartment!
The moral of the story: Listen to zaidwise! Maintenance and cleanliness is critical!!

moxxee wrote:I've only run into a few Smooth treadmills over the years and the only gripe I have is that whenever we try to order parts from Smooth, they screw it up each and every time and it takes up to 3 or 4 tries before we get the correct part.

I've had that happen to me, too; but usually not so many times. Usually it's at most twice, then they figure it out. Most of the time its when I have a part sent in for an elliptical, and they send me a right instead of a left. For me the main annoyance is their system. Everything is over the phone, which would be great if it went through. I'm getting about an 85% continuity these last six months, but usually from the older guy who it seems has had a cough since april.

Great for parties!

sdc100 wrote:Get yourself a hi-tech bike. There is no impact on the knees or any joints, and it offers resistance, which is the best form of exercise. Treadmills don't, although you can wear weights -- which unfortunately, increases the impact on your joints. Resistance is important not only for the muscles, but it also increases bone density.

I recommend a hi-tech bike only because you can have different programs, which makes exercise much more interesting. And it can optimize your goals, i.e. strength, aerobic or endurance, as well as provide feedback. Our Schwinn 140 simulates various terrains, increasing and decreasing resistance automatically while monitoring our heartrate. You can also program in two individual profiles, which helps chart progress. We got it for $200.

First I'd like to thank everyone for all the tips. I guess I'll continue my quest for a good exercise bike. @SDC100 I saw that bike and expected a 500$ price tag. I think i'll keep surfing craigslist and garage sales hoping to find one of those for 200 like you. I'd imagine I could have no problem finding one in March when everyone gives up their resolutions.

Thanks again everyone!

Edit: I'd also like to thank the mod for deleting the pictures from my wall of text quote. I just came back to delete it now and realized it was already done.

$5 shipping? That's a little steep don't you think? Or is that for overnight?

hehehe.

Any way we can buy more than 3? I'm working on a music video.

So you think if you put this expensive ugly thing into your house you're actually going to start to exercise, huh?
Ha!

For those that are worried about their knees, there are is recent info that it is a myth that runners have bad knees. Most of the articles I've read recently hint that runners' knees are better than knees of those who do not exercise, but with no comparison to bikes, ellipticals, etc.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1948208,00.html

http://www.halhigdon.com/Articles/knees.htm


The key points seem to be: slowly increasing mileage/speed, good shoes that are replaced on a proper interval and good form.

Most of the time when I know people have bad knees it is because of doing something the knee is not designed to do, i.e. bending excessivly (baseball catchers), jumping excessively (basketball players), twisting & turning (torn acl from gymnastics, basketball).

This is all based on my research to switch from swimming to running as my main form of exercise.

Wow, easily the biggest shipping bargain I've ever seen. That thing is enormous. Perfect for training in winter.

sdc100 wrote:Get yourself a hi-tech bike. There is no impact on the knees or any joints, and it offers resistance

Resistance is futile!

hulkweazel wrote:...you do realize that because running is a weight-bearing exercise, it DOES offer resistance (More than bikes, actually) and it DOES help with bone density? Running is one of the best forms of exercise for anyone without bad knees/joints/etc.

No, that's not true -- because you can't significantly increase resistance in running so improvement quickly plateaus. A colleague of mine actually did a formal study on this. While running will maintain bone density to a good extent, you cannot increase resistance in a controlled manner. Like the increase in muscle mass, increase in bone density requires progressively increasing resistance.

And running is actually one of the worst forms of exercise, when you factor in goal efficiency, convenience and risk of injury. If you don't have bad knees now, you're increasing your risk if you run. SImply put, the joints of the knees have not evolved to keep pace with the our increased lifespans. The impact of running wears out the surfaces (articular cartilage). If you only live to 50, it won't be a factor. But if you expect to live to 80, the years of running may make a difference.

I wonder if Woot will ship this is a "Flat Rate" box...

moxxee wrote:The warranty is only good as long as the company is in business!
All the best to my fellow wooters in their weight loss efforts!

One more caveat: Often, the warranty is only good if you buy from an AUTHORIZED DEALER. It's unclear to me if Woot is an authorized seller. I know this from experience. We did our research and Schwinn got incredible ratings for service. One reviewer even said they sent him an entire replacement computer console for free. Other said that they send smaller replacement parts, no questions asked. After calling them, I also verified that they were very helpful and knowledgeable. So we felt safe buying a Schwinn. However, our bike was from a local closeout store. It was brand new, still packed in the box, and costs only $200 with free s/h. However, when we opened the box, one of the pedal straps was damaged. Unfortunately, Schwinn refused to honor the warranty because we didn't buy from an authorized dealer.

For what it's worth, Amazon is an authorized dealer for most things, including our Schwinn. I don't know if that makes Woot automatically an authorized seller.

I have a question about shipping. Is it possible to schedule the treadmill to be shipped after New Years? I will be traveling over the holidays and would not want this sitting outside while I'm gone.

Will they deliver this inside your house or just dump it on the sidewalk?

Also, how hard is it to assemble this treadmill?

You want low impact cardiovascular exercise at home? Fill up your laundry basket and walk up and down the cellar stairs 10 times fast.

Then after 2 months, when your bored to hell with the same routine and quit, you will not be stuck with an $800.00 cloths hanger that takes up more floor space then a F150 Ford pickup truck.

This winters $800.00 treadmill is next summers $100.00 yard sale.

hulkweazel wrote:...you do realize that because running is a weight-bearing exercise, it DOES offer resistance (More than bikes, actually) and it DOES help with bone density? Running is one of the best forms of exercise for anyone without bad knees/joints/etc.

It depends on your exercise bike. If you buy a cheap friction tension bike, the resistance will be weak. But if you have good electronically controlled magnetic resistance bike, you can beat anything a normal runner would face. At its highest setting, I can just barely move the pedals, and I'm huffing after two revolutions. And if I want a real challenge I can stand on the pedals to use like a semi-elliptical. Do you really think running offers more resistance than that?

Roostalee wrote:Now if they can only make a treadmill that actually takes you places.

But they do!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUuwEq98ByM

Hmm. The buyers are Texas, Illinois and one of those little ones in the North East.

Buy a good pair of running shoes and GO OUTSIDE!

jhoffmanpe wrote:I have a question about shipping. Is it possible to schedule the treadmill to be shipped after New Years? I will be traveling over the holidays and would not want this sitting outside while I'm gone.

Not with Woot, but you might be able to negotiate with Fedex. They're genrally pretty good although the Holiday madness might make them grouchy.

moxxee wrote:A kindred spirit! You will appreciate this: a few days ago I had a service call where a family on a farmstead had an old Image 10.0 that had motor problems. Where do they store it? In the garage! I couldn't believe it when I saw the tread sitting there sandwiched between a Tahoe and a Silverado. And I kid you not: I found a dead mouse near the treadmill and had to spend some time cleaning out the motor compartment!

Ha ha ha!!!!!! seriously lmao!

Wow. yeah. haaa!

**stories not for the squeemish**

Ah, beautiful. That's the main reason icon'll void a warranty in the garage: frame damage from SUVs.
Wow. Yeah, mice brings me back. I remember I had one house, mind you INSIDE of the house, where they kept the dog bed next to the treadmill. Well, the family fed bones to the dog, and the dog was this little thing that could barely finish it's meals in the first place. So the majority of the bones were dragged into the hood of their Epic, which was littered with droppings.
It was the first time they heard they had mice, too! So along with the repair, they also got someone to do pest control from the observation.
But that takes back seat to a story from the tech who trained me. He went out for a machine not turning on. When he opened up the hood, he found a mouse had peed on the controller and electrocuted itself, shorting the circuit. "well," he said, "I've found your problem."

moxxee wrote:I'm a service technician for an fitness equipment store, so treadmills is what I do! We sell a range of equipment including Precor, BH, Horizon, Lifecore, Schwinn and others. The good old rule of "you pay for what you get" applies in the case of buying fitness equipment. If you're looking to train for a marathon or do serious running, a $500-$1000 treadmill is not for you. For the casual runners or walkers a smaller, cheaper treadmill will do fine. Just be careful about the warranty. Some companies require you to register the equipment within a certain time frame or else the warranty is a no-go! Some also require frequent lubrication of the belt. I've only run into a few Smooth treadmills over the years and the only gripe I have is that whenever we try to order parts from Smooth, they screw it up each and every time and it takes up to 3 or 4 tries before we get the correct part.
As a final caveat, be careful when buying this stuff online and do your research about the company before you buy! The warranty is only good as long as the company is in business!
All the best to my fellow wooters in their weight loss efforts!

Unless you're planning to run the marathon in your basement then you should probably just run outside.

sdc100 wrote:No, that's not true -- because you can't significantly increase resistance in running so improvement quickly plateaus. A colleague of mine actually did a formal study on this. While running will maintain bone density to a good extent, you cannot increase resistance in a controlled manner. Like the increase in muscle mass, increase in bone density requires progressively increasing resistance.

And running is actually one of the worst forms of exercise, when you factor in goal efficiency, convenience and risk of injury. If you don't have bad knees now, you're increasing your risk if you run. SImply put, the joints of the knees have not evolved to keep pace with the our increased lifespans. The impact of running wears out the surfaces (articular cartilage). If you only live to 50, it won't be a factor. But if you expect to live to 80, the years of running will make a difference.

I can't be bothered typing so I'll just say this. You're wrong.

CowboyDann wrote:First I'd like to thank everyone for all the tips. I guess I'll continue my quest for a good exercise bike. @SDC100 I saw that bike and expected a 500$ price tag. I think i'll keep surfing craigslist and garage sales hoping to find one of those for 200 like you. I'd imagine I could have no problem finding one in March when everyone gives up their resolutions.

Thanks again everyone!

Good luck. We went through the entire process and it took about 6 months before we lucked out. Amazon even had the Schwinn 140 for about $260 at one point! Ebay also had some good offers, although s/h often killed it. Craigslist had some good offers as well, but make sure you have a large car to drive it home (especially if it's already been assembled). Please see my post about warranty. Amazon is always the safest bet simply because they're an authorized dealer, and have a no hassle return policy. I believe they'll even pay to have it shipped back if the bike is defective,

PS - when we bought the Schwinn 140, it was top of the line. But it looks like there is now a Schwinn 150 so the 140 should drop in price. I've also heard good things about their lesser models.

sdc100 wrote:At its highest setting, I can just barely move the pedals, and I'm huffing after two revolutions. And if I want a real challenge I can stand on the pedals to use like a semi-elliptical. Do you really think running offers more resistance than that?

Frankly yeah. But for different reasons.

I understand your point, and it's totally valid and true: you get a workout for your leg muscles that will exceed what you can get from any sort of running. If you take a look at the hill climbers from the tour de france, their thighs are bigger than their heads, almost. As far as fat burn, training, and actual distance traveled goes, the bike exceeds what a person can get from running, especially when you factor in that the body is expertly lazy, and will get used to running quickly.

That said, the resistance being discussed here isn't the resistance listed on the console of the bike. Friction resistance vs. magnetic resistance is actually the proper use of the term resistance, so kudos. But the "resistance" discussed earlier was actually alluding to "impact". Impact is the actual, well, impact. You get impact when you run; you do not on a bike. That's oversimplification, but it'll work for this point. The thing about impact is that the body needs it for different reasons than mass, muscle, and elasticity. Impact tells your body: "make me stronger bones!" Bone density tests done on cyclists [citation needed] and swimmers show that their bones are weaker if they don't do some exercise that involves impact, because the body simply doesn't devote energy to building bone mass if it doesn't see a need. This can lead to numerous problems I'm not going to list cause I don't know half of them.
You won't get everything you need out of a bike. Specifically, a bike won't give you IMPACT. A treadmill, overtime, will provide you with a workout that your body will get used to, compensate for, and eventually phase out the difficulty in. This is why you want both, and you want to switch major usages. Stationary-fitness is the fine art of confusing your body enough to get maximum results from a minimum of s.w.a.g.

Ever since reading ReamDe (neal stephenson's newest)
I've had a dream of attaching a gaming system to a treadmill....then i remember why kinect is such a fail idea.

I wouldn't be sitting at a computer 8 hours a day if i was the "exercising" type.

Also, why is exercise the single hardest word for autocorrect in the English language?

zaidwise wrote:The thing about impact is that the body needs it for different reasons than mass, muscle, and elasticity. Impact tells your body: "make me stronger bones!"
[...]You won't get everything you need out of a bike. Specifically, a bike won't give you IMPACT.

Point well-taken. I now remember reading a study where children who made to jump several times per day had better bone structure than those who didn't. But wasn't the improvement local to the joints or other points of impact? Osteoporosis is systemic, and in fact, not correlated to osteoarthritis. I don't believe impact increases bone density systemically, but I may be wrong. Progressively increasing resistance or weight seems to help systemically. In fact, my mom is in a longitudinal study for osteoporosis but I'm not sure what types exercises are looked into.