iPad=iPaid too much

same with all other apple products.

What people don't realize is, mac hardware is very often similar to hardware found on windows machines. Its not that hard to build a hackintosh...An simple analysis: a customer of mine wanted an i7 mac. it was $1400. I built a faster i7 with a bigger hard drive, and more memory, for $1200. Not a huge savings, but remember, the hard drive was bigger. there was twice as much memory. the processor was a 3.0GHZ i7 quad core vs a 2.0 ghz i7 quad core, and still at the end of the day, he got a better machine for cheaper, and still ran MacOS....

dgingerich wrote:I run my own computer repair business, and yes, Macs are less likely to get infected, but it's mostly because they aren't creating malware for Macs. It doesn't pay to put out something that 10% of the population has. However, this year, there have been several malware programs pushed out for Macs.

None of those malware programs made any sort of impact in the real world.

As far as the 10% goes: let's just assume that it's still a valid percentage. Even so, 10% of the computers on the planet is a _huge_ number. It's ridiculous to argue that it's not worth pursuing just because the other camp is bigger. Not only that, but almost _none_ of the 10% run any sort of antivirus software at all. _And_ they're all admin users by default. _And_ they tend to be more affluent that PC users (on average). If it were even remotely easy to write an OS X virus, there'd be thousands of them.

OS X Lion is extremely difficult to write viruses against. For that matter, so is Windows 7.

felloweskimo wrote:Yeah, Ive been using Macs for 8 years. Virus/malware = 0. My boyfriend built me a PC for gaming...virus = 2 in 6 months. Done. I sold the PC. Mac only here.

I;ve been using Windows for over 20 years. 0 viruses/maleware. I maintain our department's computers: 0 viruses/malware for WIndows, and the single Mac. It's all a matter of maintaining your computer and not doing anything stupid. Sure I've received ZIP files with malware but my system detected it and the file was promptly deleted.

If viruses and malware is such an inevitable Windows problem, why do you think Windows VASTLY outnumber Macs in the corporate world? Surely, companies don't want the headache of such problems, right? And sure corporate IT buyers are educated people who know the technology, right? Think about it.

It simply isn't the horrible widespread problem that the press, antivirus companies and Apple makes it out to be. Is it fair to blame Apple? Yep, at least their ad department. I remember all the hysteria we IT folks (my past life) faced during Y2K. Apple let out a series of misleading press releases and ads that implied that all/most Windows computers were subject to the bug. The truth was that most PCs at that time had Y2K-compliant BIOS (software was another issue, but Macs were equally affected). That's why Y2K turned out to be such a non-event. Yet, we were deluged with calls from hysterical staff, many quoting Apple press releases. In fact, we IT folks received lots of unsolicited material from Apple trying to get us to switch but most of us were more annoyed by their ploy than anything else.

I don't have any of those ads anymore, but here is an interesting post from 1999 quoting some of Apple's claims.

On another note, last February, I bought a Macbook pro 15" for a whopping $1800. I spent $1800 on a computer and it came with a dinky 5400RPM hard drive. I immediately, shook my head, installed a 7200RPM SSD Hybrid drive (a newer offering by seagate - NOTE for you critical people, this isn't actually an SSD!!!) for $99. I can't believe that apple would have the guts to put a 5400 RPM drive in an $1800 machine. Makes me wanna Barf. Sold the laptop 4 weeks later.

CowboyDann wrote:I had a snarky smartpost comment ready but then I realized this ships ground. You should see it a week or two depending on how fast woot ships these.

I'm pretty sure the Snailpost will reach by Christmas (2012 that is!).

ThunderThighs wrote:Lion: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD256Z/A

You didn't need to buy that, all you needed was the Mac App Store download for $30. (After getting the upgrade from Leopard to Snow Leopard)

Crazykid wrote:I'm pretty sure the Snailpost will reach by Christmas (2012 that is!).

with all those backorders? try 2013.

nickmcmahon wrote:iand still at the end of the day, he got a better machine for cheaper, and still ran MacOS....

It depends on what matters to you.

Aesthetically - and some people actually care about aesthetics - Macs are superior to most PCs, and the PCs which are competitive aesthetically are also similarly priced.

Quality-wise (plastic vs aluminum), you're also going to have to spend a similar amount to get a comparably-built PC.

iMacs and Mac minis are silent. Not just quiet: silent. At least in terms of any office environment - the ambient noise is louder than the computer. To some, that matters as well.

Power consumption is lower on Macs compared to many PCs as well. That makes a difference over time.

The bundled software is better, and little to none of it is crap.

The fact that you can build a hackintosh for less doesn't mean it's a superior system. I have a few. They're cheap. That's great. But they're not anywhere near the level of quality.

You can build a cheap car that's as fast as or faster than an Audi sedan. It doesn't make it better than an Audi.

There are Windows PCs that are at the same quality level as Macs. And they cost the same or more.

I'm a PC guy, but people do not include the price of the top of the line monitor you get with this when comparing to PC. That's a few hundred that people are just leaving out. They're comparing to a PC that comes with no monitor or a crappy one. It's really not that much more expensive than a PC + a good monitor. I just like Windows because it's compatible with more applications.

ThunderThighs wrote:Lion: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD256Z/A

That version is only really necessary if you don't have sufficient internet connectivity to download it from Apple. If you do, you can download Lion direct through the Mac App Store for $29.

Upon downloading Lion, you can then create a Lion recovery flash drive (relatively similar to the flash drive sold from Apple) by using the Lion Recovery Disk Assistant, if you need/want. (Lion will create a recovery partition on the drive as well, so for most people the recovery disk assistant is unnecessary.)

As a windows, macos and ubuntu user, I've gotta say, viruses were always more of a secondary problem for me, removing viruses and malware from other peoples computers rather than mine. One advantage of having a Mac is that when other people ask you to fix their computers you can just say you're a mac user and don't know The Star Wars Holiday Special (1978) about windows pcs.

Dude... Who can actually afford this thing one day before Christmas? Woot, you should have saved this for a day that people actually have a thousand bucks to spare...

sdc100 wrote:It's all a matter of maintaining your computer and not doing anything stupid. Sure I've received ZIP files with malware but my system detected it and the file was promptly deleted.

I wonder why I havent gotten any viruses then. Hm. Apparently my highly inferior Mac OSX is due for one. User error? Possibly. But I used the PC the same way I used my Mac.

And although Apple is not saying that their computers are immune to viruses, they are still saying "With virtually no effort on your part, OS X defends against viruses and other malicious applications, or malware." And it really is no effort on my part. I actually had no idea that the OS had built in antivirus. Nice.

Replying to you now on my Macbook Air. I switched from a PC back in September and will never go back.

lifevirusx wrote:Or you could get a windows PC for half the price that runs twice as well and won't cost another grand to upgrade in 6 months

That's one of the major reasons the corporate world prefers PCs. Computers are pretty much disposable appliances. It's much less painful to throw out a $600 PC than a $1000 Mac -- and you even get to keep the monitor with the PC! With Macs, the entire thing goes in the trash, even if the monitor works fine.

Several of my Mac friends have kept their very old Macs because of the double whammy: 1) It's painful to throw out something you paid so much for and, 2) It costs more to buy a new one. My PC friends generally have computers than are no more than 2-3 years old.

sdc100 wrote:I;ve been using Windows for over 20 years. 0 viruses/maleware. I maintain our department's computers: 0 viruses/malware for WIndows, and the single Mac. It's all a matter of maintaining your computer and not doing anything stupid. Sure I've received ZIP files with malware but my system detected it and the file was promptly deleted.

If viruses and malware is such an inevitable Windows problem, why do you think Windows VASTLY outnumber Macs in the corporate world? Surely, companies don't want the headache of such problems, right? And sure corporate IT buyers are educated people who know the technology, right? Think about it.

The reason why Windows VASTLY outnumber Macs in the corporate world is that most Windows PC manufacturers go out of their way to court corporations as customers, with policies that work with corporations and their IT departments. Apple can barely be bothered on many, many levels. If there are Macs in a organization, it's because that organization really, really wants them, not because Apple is easy to work with.

Apple doesn't really seem to lean on the virus/malware angle as much anymore. The last advertising for that seems to have died out with the old PC/Mac campaigns.

sdc100 wrote: My PC friends generally have computers than are no more than 2-3 years old.

*waves from her 5 year old (going on 6) macbook*

And trust me, its been though the ringer.

nickmcmahon wrote:
What people don't realize is, mac hardware is very often similar to hardware found on windows machines.

Not true. Apple uses top of the line components and gets nothing but the best of the best Intel products off the line.

If you think a Dell, HP, Acer, etc has equivalent hardware to a Mac, you are mistaken my friend.

Want this so bad.

I have a late '09 Mac mini, which is good--or rather, has been good, but now is a slow beast that can hardly run iTunes and Chrome at the same time. Nonetheless, I have some advice on the wireless keyboard and Magic Mouse.

The keyboard is great. The batteries last for a long time on them, and I don't have complaints about responsiveness or what have you. However, the lack of a number keypad on the side is inexplicable and frustrating. Most people don't have need for that (or for the home keys, which also aren't on there), but if you do, you may want to keep your current keyboard or buy a wired one.

The mouse is also great. The gestures are fun and make life quite a bit easier. However, if you're going to be using Boot Camp to use Windows (no idea if it matters with the Parallels and what have you), some of the features will not work on it. I recall trying it, then going on Google and downloading some sketchy-looking driver just to get it to scroll on Windows.

Also, on both Macs and Windows, there's no middle-mouse/click-wheel button. This is similar to the number keypad on the keyboard; most people won't care, but if you do, you may either want to keep or buy a mouse with the wheel, or download yet more sketchy drivers.

Just thought I'd give people the heads up. Both are good, but if the above-mentioned flaws matter to you, don't throw away all your hardware just yet.

xyphox wrote:I just like Windows because it's compatible with more applications.

I think that is completely reasonable, and I think OS preference is personal. There's nothing inherently better or worse about Windows, Linux, OS X, BeOS, whatever - if it works for you, it works for you.

I also understand people wanting the most bang for the buck performance-wise, although they tend to be gamers or programmers, since computers have been fast enough for most other users for over half a decade now.

My issue is with those claiming Apple products are overpriced simply because one can cobble together something with faster components for less. As you pointed out, there are other things to consider. And although I prefer OS X (but use Windows every day at work), I'd say the same thing about the high-end Windows systems - you pay more, but you get a better product. Not necessarily faster, but better, unless speed and disk space are your only concerns.

It's a better price than the educator's discount!

Several years ago, there was a company out of Florida called Psystar that sold there own machines that ran Apple OS. We owned two of the mac pro models, and at the time, they were far superior to the apple machine we had. First, rack mount-- great concept! Second, they had the fastest components available on the day you ordered them, instead of getting updated once a year. Third, they were about 30% cheaper for a faster machine with more ram that would RACK MOUNT! We were using them for Final Cut on a nationally broadcast show, and no one wanted to use the actual apple machine. Of course, they (psystar) did lose the lawsuit, but I think production companies worldwide learned the lesson of building your own apple OS system. There is a reason why Apple is the most profitable company-- they have a huge profit margin. That is why I own Apple stock. Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, it's hard to type on the phone screen.

mdog0202 wrote:Can someone explain to me why my posts are being deleted??? Is it because I'm not bowing down to the Apple powers?? Can't I post my opinion?? Stop censoring me!

It's a business, it's their call, right or wrong. There has been criticism of the mac, it may be the tone (but of course, with your posts deleted, I have no idea what you said): http://www.woot.com/WhatIsWoot.aspx#q26
You could private message thunderthighs as well and ask.

I guessed wrong as 3 a.m. to surpass yesterday's woot post total, we're past that. "Can't we all get along?" (I'm neutral on this discussion, by the way. I use home/work PC's, but occasionally help people with their macs.).

sdc100 wrote:That's one of the major reasons the corporate world prefers PCs. Computers are pretty much disposable appliances. It's much less painful to throw out a $600 PC than a $1000 Mac -- and you even get to keep the monitor with the PC! With Macs, the entire thing goes in the trash, even if the monitor works fine.

Several of my Mac friends have kept their very old Macs because of the double whammy: 1) It's painful to throw out something you paid so much for and, 2) It costs more to buy a new one. My PC friends generally have computers than are no more than 2-3 years old.

Are your PC and Mac friends exactly the same? People buy computers for all sorts of reasons, and keep them for all sorts of reasons. I have friends who get PC's every 2-3 years because they keep breaking down, and it's a pain to get them fixed. My friends who use Macs keep them going for twice as long, and end up retiring them because they're not fast enough, not because of lack of build quality.

I also work in the tech industry. A MAC has fewer ports open to attack by default than Windows XP, etc. VISTA tried to close off those attack vectors but users complained about the difficulty in using the software that queried you about everything.

Finally, the design of Windows (Ring0/Ring3) makes it more prone to attack. Access to Ring0 (the Kernel) is by Drivers. It's easy to add/replace a driver on Windows giving malware access to the Kernel. It's more difficult to attack a UNIX based system in this method.

Now, WORD Macro viruses, PDF attacks, and silly users not looking at the EMail "FROM" will still infect a system. Browser infection is a pain to fix.

I own both a SAMSUNG I7 laptop (Thanks WOOT!) and a Mac MINI...oh and a Hackintosh on a DELL laptop. All my systems have AntiVirus.

Cheers,

Ray D

geredeth wrote:That is the most ridiculous claim. I am so sick and tired of people acting like Windows just grows it's own spyware/viruses. First off, I have been going on .. almost a decade now.. of zero problems with my Windows machines. Every failure was hardware failure, and when I did get a virus 10 years ago (or maybe even 14 or so), it was my own stupid fault and I learned from it, which seems to be something that Mac users are incapable of doing.

Want to say it is pretty and shiny? Go for it. Want to say "It doesn't get viruses?" then stop, there is a reason there are anti-virus programs from the Mac, as it is even more vulnerable to infection that Windows systems, because the users are to stupid to act intelligently. And no, sorry Mrfox, this isn't direct at "you" so much as everyone who makes these foolish claims. Working in the tech industry, I get to hear this more than any rational person should. I am thinking of making a bumper sticker I can smack on peoples foreheads to warn of their fanboi given ignorance.

nickmcmahon wrote:iPad=iPaid too much

same with all other apple products.

What people don't realize is, mac hardware is very often similar to hardware found on windows machines. Its not that hard to build a hackintosh...An simple analysis: a customer of mine wanted an i7 mac. it was $1400. I built a faster i7 with a bigger hard drive, and more memory, for $1200. Not a huge savings, but remember, the hard drive was bigger. there was twice as much memory. the processor was a 3.0GHZ i7 quad core vs a 2.0 ghz i7 quad core, and still at the end of the day, he got a better machine for cheaper, and still ran MacOS....

Did you remember to match the top of the line monitors too?

rainbowshark wrote:I'm not going to pretend there aren't people out there who buy Apple just because it's Apple. But keep in mind that for some of us, Macs are simply a professional necessity. Sometimes it's a little tiring hearing about how having a Mac makes you frivolous or image-conscious when what it really means is that you bought a tool that works well for the job you need to do rather than trying to convince your entire company/industry that they're using the wrong system.

Exactly. Thank you, you have worded that perfectly.

did you know all electronic products come with warranty? and did you know when you purchase a computer/laptop you can purchase additional warranty coverage and if thats not enough for you you can even buy insurance on top of the warranty. now that's full coverage

pearmask wrote:Side note about why Macs are worth it for some people: there are certain advantages in terms of language support on Macs. This only matters to people like me who need to prepare documents and type in several different languages per day (all while using an English keyboard not set up for that), but it's really hard to do what I do with the language support (or lack thereof) on a PC. And believe me, I've tried to find solutions since I still have to use PCs in some situations and because I have lots of students with PCs, and I'm really not technologically clueless, but multilingual tasks, especially those involving multi-language input, are really much easier on a Mac.

I've never tried typing a paper in more than Spanish or Japanese, besides English, on my Windows machine, but I never ran into really any trouble. How does the Mac handle it? Can you type, for example "tsu" and have it come out つ, or work with the alt commands like Windows does? Windows language support is pretty huge, really. I work with people all day with computers in German, Spanish, French, Italian, and so forth.. but I will admit to not being sure how Mac's handle that.

lifevirusx wrote:Or you could get a windows PC for half the price that runs twice as well and won't cost another grand to upgrade in 6 months

I'm not sure why you'd need to upgrade it in 6 months.

It should serve you handily for 4-5 years. I'm typing this on a 4 year old 17" MacBook Pro. I've got a 24" iMac of similar age that suits me fine as a developer. I use a 2009 Mac mini at work to remote desktop into a Windows 7 PC and also to run apps on because I prefer the OS, and that works fine as well.

If you need to upgrade in 6 months, or a year, or even a couple of years, your needs must be vastly different than mine. I'd say the same thing about a PC. I have my biases, but I find it hard to believe any reasonably decent PC would need updating within a year or two of purchase unless you're primarily a gamer.

I always do a Google search on Woot deals to see how good of a deal it is before I buy, and I found same iMac for $780 here...

http://esportmart.com/apple-imac-21.5-quad-core-intel-core-i5-2.5ghz-4gb-ram-500gb-hard-drive-amd-radeon-hd-6750m-mac-os-x-lion.html

I've never ordered anything from Esportmart before so I can't vouch for them, but that is a huge difference in price and something to consider.

Happy holidays fellow Wooters!!

sdc100 wrote:It's all a matter of maintaining your computer and not doing anything stupid. Sure I've received ZIP files with malware but my system detected it and the file was promptly deleted.

felloweskimo wrote:I wonder why I havent gotten any viruses then. Hm. Apparently my highly inferior Mac OSX is due for one. User error? Possibly. But I used the PC the same way I used my Mac.

I don't quite understand your reply, especially as a response to the snippet you quoted.

1) The answer to your rhetorical question is right in the passage you yourself quoted from my post. You haven't gotten any viruses on your Mac because you haven't done anything stupid.

2) Who said anything about your Mac OSX being "highly inferior"? Please quote me. I've NEVER slammed Apple for their technical finesse. OSX is great. I've only slammed their prices and corporate practices. So why would you say that you OSX is "highly inferior"?

3) As for using the PC the same way you use the Mac, that would be unlikely since your PC was built for gaming. There's a reason gamers prefer PCs to Macs. Not only is usage different, but the software environment is completely different. For one thing, there is much more Windows software (thus games) out there, making the likelihood of infection greater.

ThunderThighs wrote:Well crap. It was a gift though.

Well I believe the Mac App Store allows you to gift things. If not you coul have gave him a iTunes gift card that he could have used to buy it.

Sorry =(

Oh, look. It's an Apple vs Windows FLAMEWAR! I've never ever seen one of those on the internet.

Look, this is a fine product and it's rare that you'll see a new Mac this discounted. Sure, you can go out and find a cheap Windows box that will beat the iMac's specs on paper, but that's only a part of the whole experience. There are no driver issues, no malware issues (yes, there is malware out there that targets Macs and the Mac OS is not really impenetrable-it's just that malware coders go after Windows because there are more out there), and Lion already has plenty of useful programs bundled. The only area where Macs are lacking is in gaming---if you want to play the latest games then get a Windows box.

Also, the fit and finish on a Mac is usually worlds beyond most Windows computers. You can find something approaching their level with a Samsung or other higher end device, but then you'll be paying just as much. After all, you have to live with the thing so you might as well enjoy the aesthetics.

Bottom line, this is a good deal for what it is. Apple are expensive, and if that turns you off then by all means get whatever HP box is on sale.

P.S. The Magic Mouse is ok, but the Magic Trackpad is much better.

davidbrault wrote:I always do a Google search on Woot deals to see how good of a deal it is before I buy, and I found same iMac for $780 here...

http://esportmart.com/apple-imac-21.5-quad-core-intel-core-i5-2.5ghz-4gb-ram-500gb-hard-drive-amd-radeon-hd-6750m-mac-os-x-lion.html

I've never ordered anything from Esportmart before so I can't vouch for them, but that is a huge difference in price and something to consider.

Happy holidays fellow Wooters!!

I'm not sure if trustpilot is any more reliable, but their data on Esportmart:
http://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.esportmart.com
I haven't come up with it through the BBB yet.

WOW! I wish I even knew someone with this much spare change laying around just before Christmas.

What a gnarly price tag! YIKES!

About to nod off, but one last thing. If you can afford this, it is a good deal. This machine has a good screen, runs fast, and is fun to use. Not many "all-in one" pc's look like a piece of artwork, but this really does. I honestly don't know too many people that are unhappy with their macs.

geredeth wrote:I've never tried typing a paper in more than Spanish or Japanese, besides English, on my Windows machine, but I never ran into really any trouble. How does the Mac handle it? Can you type, for example "tsu" and have it come out つ, or work with the alt commands like Windows does? Windows language support is pretty huge, really. I work with people all day with computers in German, Spanish, French, Italian, and so forth.. but I will admit to not being sure how Mac's handle that.

I don't know a ton about what's necessary to type in a language with a different script. What I do know is that for Romance languages and others like that which require a large number of diacritical marks and other slightly different characters, the default keyboard shortcuts are exceptionally intuitive. Very few keyboard presses, very very fast - no noticeable loss in typing speed. I go back and forth between Spanish and English constantly, with regular use of IPA as well (there's a great palette for that which is Mac compatible and easy to pull up from the language menu), with brief forays into Catalan, Italian, and various other languages. Recent versions of Windows are beginning to include better support for things like this, but here's a comparison of what you'd need to produce a character + diacritical like "é" on OS X vs Windows (with default input settings):

Windows: [ALT+0201] (or open the character palette and hunt and peck, which is the only thing a lot of my technically-inept students can figure out)
Mac: [Option+E, E]

Which would you rather memorize if you had to type multiple pages in Spanish every day? (Option + E is all you need to know to put an acute accent on any letter. So ó is [Option+E, O], whereas on Windows you'd need [ALT+162]. Similarly intuitive shortcuts exist for a variety of other diacriticals.)

Like I said, this doesn't matter for most people, but as a linguist focusing on Hispanic languages, I can't have a PC until they make it easier for me to type just as fast in Spanish as I do in English without memorizing random numerical strings.