baggerflip


quality posts: 0 Private Messages baggerflip

Consider the use of electricity if you kept you hair blow dryer on ALL DAY! This is very similar.

flipshop


quality posts: 0 Private Messages flipshop
tesla33 wrote:"Reduces energy consumption by 35% to 50%"

I'm old enough to remember when claims like that would get companies fined. "Up to 50%" wouldn't be a lie (just misleading), but the above is. Anyway, quartz heaters aren't magic, and don't neat the air well. This is just a big, expensive, guts-made-in-China space heater.



well i would say that "up to..." would be more misleading, being that anything between %0 - %50 would fall within the claim. whereas %35 - %50 is a more specific expectation. is it realistic to expect the product to reduce your overall consumption that much? absolutely not. is it a more defined statement? yes.

not blasting. just saying.

paulpnevada


quality posts: 26 Private Messages paulpnevada
afterburn2600 wrote:Unless you add water to the system somehow, the humidity will NOT increase. Psychrometrics 101!...

The point is you can't add humidity while heating. Impossibru.

FWIW I don't claim to be 100% correct here...do your own research...it's been a while since I was in school and had Thermo, so it's pretty rusty.

-Mechanical Engineer



A direct fired gas appliance (e.g. stove, oven, makeup air system) or an improperly ventilated indirect appliance (e.g. gas water heater, furnace) does add water to the system...the combustion products are mostly CO2 and water vapor.

- Also a Mechanical Engineer

reflex


quality posts: 1 Private Messages reflex
onefastwienerdog wrote:Guaranteed to make your electric meter look like a C.D. player.



THAT IS F'ING FUNNY!!!!

paulpnevada


quality posts: 26 Private Messages paulpnevada
kidge27 wrote:I completely disagree, because if it heats up a room quicker or to a higher temperature than another space heater, then you are getting more heat per Kwh. So if it can get the job done in 45min as opposed to another unit that would take an hour, then you save that 15min of electricity.



"[...]more heat per Kwh." Did you really just say that?

[facepalm]

dirtworship


quality posts: 2 Private Messages dirtworship

Ok,Let me ask this,with more expensive heater like this that I have, which sucks up more electricity; turning the thing down to 55 degrees at night then cranking it up to 67 in the morning, OR keeping it at a constant temp of 63 degrees all the time?

danwat1234


quality posts: 5 Private Messages danwat1234
dirtworship wrote:Ok,Let me ask this,with more expensive heater like this that I have, which sucks up more electricity; turning the thing down to 55 degrees at night then cranking it up to 67 in the morning, OR keeping it at a constant temp of 63 degrees all the time?



We'd need more information, like how long in the morning is it at 67 degrees and does it achieve this temperature in the room. Also, what is the coefficient of thermal conductivity between your room/house and the colder outside environment. How cold does it typically get at night where you live? Finally, are access points to the colder environment opened more often in the morning, or other times of the day?


J/K!
I would say that 55 F at night and 67 F degrees during the day is more efficient than 63 degrees F 24/7.

sdonlan


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sdonlan

sold out??

dirtworship


quality posts: 2 Private Messages dirtworship

thanks! scared me there for a minute.

BlindingMask


quality posts: 6 Private Messages BlindingMask
chejrw wrote:They're using semantics to their advantage here. When heating air, relative humidity ALWAYS decreases unless moisture is also added, and RH% is what people commonly refer to when they use the term 'humidity' - eg, if someone states that the humidity today is 70%, they are quoting a relative humidity value.

You are, however, correct in saying that the absolute humidity will not change when you heat the air, which is what the marketing people are referring to as well, assuming that the large majority of consumers don't know the difference.

tl;dr - It does decrease (relative) humidity

- Chemical Engineer



Relative humidity is a ratio of the current partial pressure of water to the vapor pressure at that temperature. As the ambient temperature increases, the vapor pressure of water increases. If the current partial pressure of water stays the same (no more water molecules are added) then the relative humidity of water will drop.

At 100% humidity, liquid water is at equilibrium with vaporized water. It follows that when you increase the temperature of a batch of air, the rate of evaporation will increase as you move further from equilibrium. This means that in practice, your heater will increase the absolute amount of water in the air vs external conditions.

This in turn means that when the air reaches the windows of your house and cools to the outside temperature, the extra water gained from inside will be deposited.

I just wanted to point out that just about all heating systems will put water on your windows, and your house does not have a defroster like your car does.

-chemical engineer & chemist.

bagbiter


quality posts: 1 Private Messages bagbiter
chejrw wrote:

...tl;dr...



lolpeoplereadpostshere

TALK ABOUT BALLOONS I COMMAND IT
-XVI

bagbiter


quality posts: 1 Private Messages bagbiter
BlindingMask wrote:Relative humidity is a ratio of the current partial pressure of water to the vapor pressure at that temperature. As the ambient temperature increases, the vapor pressure of water increases. If the current partial pressure of water stays the same (no more water molecules are added) then the relative humidity of water will drop.

At 100% humidity, liquid water is at equilibrium with vaporized water. It follows that when you increase the temperature of a batch of air, the rate of evaporation will increase as you move further from equilibrium. This means that in practice, your heater will increase the absolute amount of water in the air vs external conditions.

This in turn means that when the air reaches the windows of your house and cools to the outside temperature, the extra water gained from inside will be deposited.

I just wanted to point out that just about all heating systems will put water on your windows, and your house does not have a defroster like your car does.

-chemical engineer & chemist.



heat is hot. water is wet.



NEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDS

TALK ABOUT BALLOONS I COMMAND IT
-XVI

jshagam


quality posts: 3 Private Messages jshagam
whatsmypassword wrote:Whut? This is sold out already. Don't they know it's -5 degrees here in Michigan???



Eh, by the time it gets shipped to you, winter will probably be over anyway.

You can still get this on Amazon for $131 shipped in case you're that hard up for heat.

schorert


quality posts: 4 Private Messages schorert
Fountain3586 wrote:I am not really sure why people are complaining about the electric bill. I run my oil heater at 1000W for 8 hours every night and last month I paid $53.00 for electricity for my entire 900 sf home with bad basement windows...

What gives? Oh yea, I live in Omaha, where electric rates are lower than most of the country... Haha, losers.



You live in a 900sq ft home that you heat with a toaster, in omaha, and you're calling anyone "loser"?
I wouldn't even fly on an airline that flies OVER nebraska.

sdc100


quality posts: 503 Private Messages sdc100
notaguru wrote:It's a 1500W heater, exactly the same as a $12 heater from Walmart.

Are the LifeSmart watts somehow warmer? More comfortable? Cheaper? Greener?

Sometimes a watt is just a watt, and 1500 of them have precisely the same heating effect whether the source costs $109 or $12.



No, a watt is not a watt when it comes to heating. It's important to know that wattage measures energy usage, not the output capacity, which is measured in BTU, The way that electrical watt is converted to heat, and how that heat reaches you are important considerations. As a simple example consider an incandescent lightbulb. It definitely gets hot, but much of the wattage is used for light, so the electrical conversion to heat is not very efficient (in other words, don't use an EasyBake™ oven).

Heat is transferred to you in three different ways: Radiation, Conduction and Convection.

1) CONDUCTION: This is the most efficient, but arguably least practical. It means that the heat source has direct contact with your skin, so there is great transfer. An example is the electric blanket, which rarely uses more than 150 watts yet your entire body feels toasty. The flip side is that room remains cold, and other occupants in the room are not warmed. Blankets are also impractical if you need to move around, and in certain environments, i.e. bathroom or workshop. Conduction can also occur using thermal conductors such as metal in between the source and destination. This is the principle of heat sinks and water cooling, which take heat away from your CPU.

PROS:
- Silent
- Energy efficient since most of the heat is transfered directly to the taget. Usually under 150 watts
- Heating is fast, although not as fast as radiant heat
- Heat can be individualized; different people can have different temperatures
- A blanket's coverage is very adjustable. You can cover only the parts that are cold, and leave other parts uncovered. Some have intelligent thermostats where the feet, midbody and chest have individual sensors.

CONS:
- Not easily trasportable; you have to stay plugged in
- Cannot warm a room so it's not good for many situations, i.e. the bathroom or workshop
- Blankets require special care
- Some claim EMF hazzrd although current models emit very low levels
- Although the blanket constantly monitors itself for safety, if a fire does break out, it would be VERY near your body.

2) CONVECTION. This is a variant of conduction where heat is conducted through air molecules. Since air is needed, no convection occurs in a vacuum, i.e. space. It's the principle behind the Thermos™ bottle, where a vacuum layer shields the contents from the outside, thus keeping the contents hot or cold. The opposite result is used in convection ovens, where a fan circulates hot air around and inside foods, i.e. a turkey's cavity.

Any heater that has a fan uses convection. Basically, a surface in the heater gets hot and a fan blows that heat into the room. The simplest configuration is a wire that gets red hot through resistance, and a fan blowing on that wire to get the heat out. It's the principle behind a hair dryer. MOre sophisticated models use heating elements such as ceramic, often made into a honeycomb structure to increase surface area. An advantage of ceramic is that it stays hot longer after the thermostat turns off, saving energy.

Some convection heaters are passive and don't use a fan. An example is oil filled radiator from DeLonghi. It heats up internal tubes fill with oil which then warms the surrounding air. It's energy efficient because the oil stays hot long after the electricity is turned off. Just imagine standingg next to a large covered pot of hot water.

PROS
- Warms the room
- Gentle warm air current can be soothing
- On low, fan noise can be used as white noise
- Can be used for drying items. In fact, if you use it to dry clothes, the resulting increase in humidity is healthy and increses the apparent warmth of the room -- BUT MAKE SURE THERE IS ENOUGH SPACE BETWEEN THE ITEM AND THE HEATER TO AVOID A FIRE
- Can be placed in an attractive housing, i.e. a simulated fireplace
- Generally not a fire hazard since heating element is covered and usually unseen
- Usually pet and children safe since housing stays cool

CONS
- Inefficient since heat must warm air to reach you; not so useful if you stay on the couch reading or bed sleeping. In the case of the oil heaters, it takes time to heat the oil
- Slow to warm you
- In the case of oil heaters, you have to sit relatively close to feel the heat
- Uses 800-1800 watts so it may overload your circuit breaker
- Can be noisy, especially on high
- Fan and grille get dirty over time; needs maintence
- Motor means that more can break
- Needs clearance space to pull in air

3) RADIANT. Radiant heat, aka radiation, does not need air for conduction, and goes directly from the source to the object. The best example is sunlight, which reaches us despite the vacuum of space. It can be 32F yet your skin can still feel hot from the midday sun. Most radiant heaters use a reflective surface to focus the heat from a heating element onto the target. The element can be a simple wire, but most use quartz tubes. These tubes can get hotter since the wire is inside a vacuum enclosed by quartz, making them less likely to burn (you need oxygen to burn; it's why incadescent bulbs also use a vacuum). Cheap radiant heaters use a parabolic reflector resembling a radar dish. Quartz heaters use a concave surface.

PROS
- Energy efficient since the heat warms surfaces and not the air. I have a radianr heater that uses only 300 watts, and another that uses 400/800 watts
- Heat is instant. Your skin is warmed within seconds
- Silent and sturdy since there are no moving parts. However, mpact can break the tubes
- Good for warming surfaces, i.e. pipes. Some people have these aimed at pipes in the Winter to avoid freezing, making them turn on automatically <32F.
- Good for therapeutic warming of the body, i.e. the joints -- BUT DON'T GET TOO CLOSE!!!!

CONS
- VERY focused heat. Depending on placement, the heat may not reach the entire body. The further the heater, the wider -- and weaker -- the beam.
- Heat can be blocked. If you dog is between you and the heater, you won't feel the heat. But the heat can go through transparent objects like windows. Just imagine the heat beam like light.
- CAn be a fire hazard. The center of the beam can get very hot if close enough. Paper and cloth reaching the element can catch fire, i.e. fires ave been caused by quartz lamps.
- Heating element is exposed, although usually covered by a grille
- The bright red orange glow can be uncomfortable to the eyes. this is especially true in a darken room, i.e. while sleeping or watching TV
- The heat can be uncomfortable to those who don't like sunlight

tinkernickel


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tinkernickel

new woot! at 12am CENTRAL TIME....curse me for being an east coaster And for being too Dot's Poetry Corner to stay up late...

kidge27


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kidge27

...

kidge27


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kidge27

...

mwitt08


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mwitt08

I am in my fourth and last quarter of my thermodynamics series for Mech. Engineering. These comments are very depressing (except for the engineers comments).

I guess my degree pays off in more than just salary. I will know that a heat pump is over 100% efficient and electric heat can only be 100% efficient.

kpk021


quality posts: 1 Private Messages kpk021

I still find the "a watt is a watt" idea inaccurate from my experience. I have an infrared 1500watt heater in the garage and it heats it up a whole lot faster than a 1500watt ceramic heater does.

What I find in general is that with infrared heaters since they heat the objects which in turn heat the air, the more objects in the room (and in view of the heater), the faster it heats the room.

Similarly, an infrared heater in an empty room won't hear it nearly as well as one full of objects. So as far as I can tell that must mean that the wattage of a heater isn't the only factor in how well it can heat a room.

graygamer


quality posts: 3 Private Messages graygamer

Indeed, how it's heated does matter, and where you are in the room, and where the heat is.

LastApeMan


quality posts: 18 Private Messages LastApeMan
baggerflip wrote:Consider the use of electricity if you kept you hair blow dryer on ALL DAY! This is very similar.



LOL.. very cool

i thought of this as well, so i took my hair dryer outside on an extension cord and watched my meter spin like an industrial fan when I turned it on.

Highly doubting the 1.00 a day thing needless to say.

What Lies Behind Us and Lies Before Us are Small Matters Compared to What Lies Right to Our Faces.

lola4028


quality posts: 10 Private Messages lola4028

I just bought one of these from QVC and have been using it for 1 week. I don't like it and intend to send it back. After seeing the presentation I thought it would make a good replacement for the $35 electric oil filled radiator I'd been running to heat my living room. I think this heater SUCKS. When it's on it's highest setting it blows so much air that the room feels colder than it was before the heater was turned on. I haven't seen an electric bill yet, so I can't speak on the cost.

kosimov


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kosimov
johnvassel wrote:A hair dryer on high will use 1500 watts. So will a curling iron. Neither will heat a room. So yes, 1500 watts is 1500 watts, but HOW it uses that energy and converts it to heat is the difference.



Touche' !!!!! I have been thinking about replying to this subject, but you've said enough to satisfy most people. Along with the error of saying that anything consuming 1500 Watts of power will heat the same as any other thing of equal power consumption, there is the matter of what happens to the heat once it is generated in and around the heating element; ie, how is that energy transferred and distributed. Not all methods are the same.

Of course, I haven't read past this post, so there may be a flurry of postings disagreeing with this. Stick to your answer, though, as it is fundamentally true. There is the relatively small matter of the motor using some power which does not produce heat, but it is not enough to worry about in a generalized discussion such as this. I could write a long, detailed, very mathematical reply but it wouldn't change anyone's mind. Besides, once my profession is identified, there will be many people who will want to prove I don't know anything at all, so it won't do any good for me to say more.

regards,
Larry Holmes
professional electrical engineer

kosimov


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kosimov
BlindingMask wrote:

...... This means that in practice, your heater will increase the absolute amount of water in the air ...... when the air reaches the windows of your house and cools to the outside temperature, the extra water gained from inside will be deposited.... just about all heating systems will put water on your windows, and your house does not have a defroster like your car does.

-chemical engineer & chemist.


I am glad to see the chemistry folks pitch in here; you probably work more in this area from month to month than we EE's and ME's do!

One thing does confuse me about what has been said, though. It is the idea that moisture will be added to the air in a room if an infrared heater is operated in the room, and no moisture is added from any other source. Isn't that what is being said when you say that the heated air, upon striking the cold window glass, will not be able to hold as much moisture once it cools off, so, there will be moisture condensing on the window pane? Forgive me, I'm just a dumb old EE, but where did that moisture come from? How can the heat make the air hold more moisture than is present in the room? Wouldn't you have to add moisture to the air apart from heating it, say, with a vaporizer? Heating air does not add moisture to it, it only makes the air capable of holding more moisture, right?

I am not trying to be a smart a--, I really don't get it, from what I can remember from school and the work I've done since; I have to admit, I haven't designed many space heaters, though!

paulpnevada


quality posts: 26 Private Messages paulpnevada
mwitt08 wrote:I am in my fourth and last quarter of my thermodynamics series for Mech. Engineering. These comments are very depressing (except for the engineers comments).

I guess my degree pays off in more than just salary. I will know that a heat pump is over 100% efficient and electric heat can only be 100% efficient.



Too late for me to recommend you follow a different path, like medical school, I guess.

As for the heat pump efficiency being over 100%, that's only because the communications majors from across the campus were hired to produce the ad copy...because no honest engineer would ever make that statement in print, because its simply not accurate. It plays fast and loose with the facts, read the fine print in the disclaimer and see.

- Another (jaded and cynical) Mechanical Engineer...yes, the P.E. type that does HVAC, among other things.

danwat1234


quality posts: 5 Private Messages danwat1234
kosimov wrote:..................................... There is the relatively small matter of the motor using some power which does not produce heat, but it is not enough to worry about in a generalized discussion such as this. I could write a long, detailed, very mathematical reply but it wouldn't change anyone's mind. ................................................................
regards,
Larry Holmes
professional electrical engineer


Oh My Gosh. You are a professional EE and yet you don't think an electrical motor produces heat? ROFL, literally! Well at least LOLing.
An electric motor that might for instance take 40 watts to move air through this heater, that 40 watts is turned into heat and is a part of the total heat output of the unit. Maybe not through the regular air flow channel, but through the chassis of the heater at least.

-
In school for Computer Engineering

danwat1234


quality posts: 5 Private Messages danwat1234
paulpnevada wrote:Too late for me to recommend you follow a different path, like medical school, I guess.

As for the heat pump efficiency being over 100%, that's only because the communications majors from across the campus were hired to produce the ad copy...because no honest engineer would ever make that statement in print, because its simply not accurate. It plays fast and loose with the facts, read the fine print in the disclaimer and see.

- Another (jaded and cynical) Mechanical Engineer...yes, the P.E. type that does HVAC, among other things.



Hey, are you saying that heat pumps are no better than resistive heaters? If so, you are a complete Newbie and really should think before posting something so dumb.
Look at the datasheets for heatpumps. The newer ones are far better than 250% efficient. Meaning, say 2,000 watts for the compressor and the Condensor+evaporator fan, 5,000 watts of heat or cooling (17,070BTUs), or better. Of course this efficiency is slowly reduced when you get below 25 F or higher than 90 F in the summer.

Do you think car companies are putting in inverter variable speed compressored heatpumps in their electric cars because they fee like it? No, They do it because it saves a lot of battery power versus hair dryer resistive heater technology.

tomhanks


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tomhanks



Using this in our family/living room. It is about 20' x 40'...so far so good. Have not seen the first electric bill since purchasing this. Very attractive, and every bit as powerful as my more expensive brand.

kekestein


quality posts: 0 Private Messages kekestein

Is the heater quiet?

spinozaq


quality posts: 0 Private Messages spinozaq
danwat1234 wrote:Hey, are you saying that heat pumps are no better than resistive heaters? If so, you are a complete Newbie and really should think before posting something so dumb.
Look at the datasheets for heatpumps. The newer ones are far better than 250% efficient. Meaning, say 2,000 watts for the compressor and the Condensor+evaporator fan, 5,000 watts of heat or cooling (17,070BTUs), or better. Of course this efficiency is slowly reduced when you get below 25 F or higher than 90 F in the summer.

Do you think car companies are putting in inverter variable speed compressored heatpumps in their electric cars because they fee like it? No, They do it because it saves a lot of battery power versus hair dryer resistive heater technology.




I've always found heat pumps easier to explain to people by talking about AC units. A typical AC unit ( small window ) will draw 700 watts of power, yet it's "rated" at 8000 BTU of cooling power. That translates into about 2500 watts. The reason is the AC unit is just "moving the heat". A well engineered system can move more heat then the power it draws. That makes sense. It turns out moving heat outside and getting cold air is pretty easy. Moving heat to provide heat inside using temperature differences between the air and ground is a tougher engineering problem.

Toynbert


quality posts: 3 Private Messages Toynbert

Just got mine, does anyone else think it is a little loud? Mine sounds like my car heater turned up to high. like 10 times louder than my computer.

Stupid should hurt.

jnevil


quality posts: 967 Private Messages jnevil

**Shipping Update**

LifeSmart 1500W Infrared Quartz Heater has completely shipped via FEDEX Ground. All tracking has already been emailed out. You can also find your tracking number by following this link and use your ORDER NUMBER as the reference number.

FEDEX TRACKING

riggie


quality posts: 4 Private Messages riggie

Just got the two I ordered. Both boxes are in good shape, not even the corners are crunched in. The boxes do indicate exactly what is inside so if you bought them as a gift, you'll need to wrap the giant box first if you want to disguise the contents. OK...first thoughts: the cabinet is nice, not flimsy. Uh oh, two loose screws in the box-turns out they belonged in the back of the unit in the frame that connects to the wood cabinet. I screwed them back in even though they are not really tightening down (which explains why they fell out to begin with-easy fix). Anyway, turned it on and after a minute of heating up, click...flashing E1 (which I assume means error, but there is nothing in the manual to reference). What the...ok, calm down, unplug and let it adjust to indoor temp for a few minutes maybe? Turn on again, and it works like a charm. Stinks for about 5 minutes but otherwise seems nice. Not too loud. OK, take the second one out. Good news-no loose screws! Anyway, plug that one in, turn it on to high. It has a buzzing noise. Great. Hmmm let's see what would cause a buzzing noise. OK, the filter on the back of the unit was buzzing. Simple fix: slide it a hair to the left so it tightens into the bracket. Buzzing gone. This one surely stinks too. But it's waning already. Dogs seems to like it since they are both laying on floor in front of it. That's got to mean something. They never laid in front of the micathermic panel that I was using, so maybe they know something. All in all, so far so good. One is going in the bedroom and the other in the living area. Here's hoping they work out...

crank1611


quality posts: 0 Private Messages crank1611

I received the unit 1/26/2012. Reasonable delivery time.
I tried to call the tech support telephone number and it is not in service.
A receipt is needed for warranty replacement/repair. Where do I get the receipt as no paper work was received with the box?
Reading the manual indicates the outside of it gets very hot. IS this true???
This is frustrating

jshandick


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jshandick

No wonder everyone has high elsctric bills. This heater has a wire heater right at the output. This is the same as a cheep $20 heater at walmart. I have three other infrared heaters none of them need a wire heater for heat. I've heated my house with them for four years now was just getting this one for a spare. I see why the price was low. If you want a infrared get another brand.

ThunderThighs


quality posts: 555 Private Messages ThunderThighs

Staff

crank1611 wrote:I received the unit 1/26/2012. Reasonable delivery time.
I tried to call the tech support telephone number and it is not in service.
A receipt is needed for warranty replacement/repair. Where do I get the receipt as no paper work was received with the box?
Reading the manual indicates the outside of it gets very hot. IS this true???
This is frustrating



You can print your receipt from My Account at the top of the page. Click on this item in your list of purchased products. On the next page, you'll see a link to print your receipt.



Customer Service: support@woot.com ••• Allow 1-2 business days for response.
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CANCEL?? How to cancel your order in the first 15 minutes!! - except Woot-Offs & expedited orders

Chabis


quality posts: 2 Private Messages Chabis

Mine were delivered yesterday. I must say I am quite impressed. The finish on the cabinet was better than expected. The construction seems sound. There actually are two power levels (Low = 800watts High 1500 watts. The digital readout is clear, the remote convenient.

Most important, of course, is the heat output which seems fine. The fan is reasonably quiet. The cabinet did stay cool to the touch.

Bottom line: If reliability does not prove to be an issue I am more than pleased with this purchase. True a space heater can be bought for less, but not one that I'd want to have to look at -- especially in my Victorian-style library which is where one of these has been placed.

Oh, and the delivery was FAST. Thank you Woot! Slow delivery was your one fault and it seems you have addressed it!

ellenh


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ellenh

Got one yesterday, there is some odor. The fan is louder than I would like.
Does anyone know why it says not to plug it into a GFI outlet?

jamesschoaf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jamesschoaf

Just opened up the box to find out that the bottom cast is broken (but no parts of it are in the box, and the same corner is scratched up...

This was my first woot item, and I am regretting it.