keithco16 wrote:You should get a life

Quality Post

I've had one for two years, and it does work great on some type of mild pain. My Dad says the same thing. It's a great thing to have around, and they normally go for about $35.

bolligra wrote:How would this work for tendinitis/tennis elbow? I've had it for about four months, restricting use of that arm (e.g. no heavy lifting). But, now that spring is sprung here in Colorado, I'm itching to get on the golf course. However, I don't want to worsen my condition and then have to lay low all summer. Will this help even a little?

It does help my husband,ask a chiropractor if you are worried

I find it very strange that Amazon raised the price of this item from 36.51 to 64.90.

I've had tens units applied to my lower back for ages at the physical therapist. Now I can do it from the comfort of my own home. Finally!

jimtpat wrote:I might be missing something here. I figure this could be good for massaging that area of your back that you can't reach and no one else is around to help.

But then, if no one else is around to help, how do you get it to the right spot that you can't reach?

I bet I coulda used this back in my middle school years to break the local detention record.

It's a one time instant action. Imagine putting a piece of tape on your back. And you don't have to be precise. It's not like you have to hold on to the pads during treatment, or move them around.

My wife's friend swears by these sort of devices, and just paid a lot more than $20 for hers. This will make mine extremely happy. Thanks woot!

carsongell wrote:I find it very strange that Amazon raised the price of this item from 36.51 to 64.90.

Amazon did not raise the price, the person who originally linked it...linked to the item but a different seller who is sold through Amazon (says LiveSpan).

If you look at the '5 new for ...' link underneath, you will see the product listing from other sellers on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000XHNBLU/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new

And you will see the first one is Amazon selling it themselves, Prime eligible, for $39.95...so about $3 more which is typical for Amazon price fluctuations.

breaddrink wrote:My physical therapist used a unit on my neck and back that was for all tense a purposes the same.

"intents and purposes"

deecee73 wrote:I rarely make a comment but do read these b/c people have such a great sense of humor around here. However I have to respond to the quote of the "doctor" who disparages Eastern medicine:

Another clown of a western doctor to frown upon Chinese medicine. Acupuncture/acupressure works and that is proven. It has even been used in complement with Western medicine (e.g. to kill pain for open heart surgery - performed with no other anesthesia).

I spent years in pain, getting massages, taking muscle relaxants and suffering after getting hit at a stop light by a sleepy driver who ran a red light. About 8 years later I traveled to see a master acupuncturist [ an MD / PhD. ] from China who used a plug-in unit of these and needles. Within three visits she had fixed me 99%. That was maybe six or seven years ago and I have only been back maybe once or twice for back pain since then. In that time I have sent many friends and co-workers to see this woman and she has fixed problems that Western doctors insisted needed painful surgery (for knees, foot operations, etc.) when all they needed was for the body to heal itself.

Clowns like the doctor that wrote of the "unproven theory" need to be taken out back and...

The person who recommended to me the acupuncturist in question (and I have seen a couple different ones, but there is only one master acupuncturist that I have met) was mangled in a motor vehicle accident and was to have his leg amputated by Western doctors. Ultimately those Western doctors left the leg attached but the man dragged around his leg like a tree stump for years. He developed horrible back pain that his chiropractor and drugs could not address. Within one visit the master acupuncturist had unfrozen the man's ankle and his swollen foot had shrunk back to a normal size (he had to wear different-sized shoes for years).

Just as with Western medicine there are competent and incompetent doctors, the same goes with Eastern medicine. You have to do your homework. Chiropractors have had reported deaths and I know people who have been injured by chiropractors. I know people (including family) who were killed and maimed by Western doctors. I don't know anyone injured or killed by an acupuncturist, but I do know many who were healed/relieved or cured by acupuncturists. At worst, they found the needles hurt or did nothing but give fleeting relief.


Ironically, a Western doctor (very good) at a doc-in-the-box clinic suggested I get one of these types of units about 14 years ago when I was hit by that driver. My insurance didn't want to pay the $750 (understandably) so I returned the unit. At this price I can finally afford one for myself. : D

----------------

I just went back and read that and it sounds nutty and like an infomercial. Oh well, it's the best I can do in the middle of the night. Take it with a grain of salt. Then go feel healthy and happy.

PURE BALONEY

"Another clown of a western doctor to frown upon Chinese medicine. Acupuncture/acupressure works and that is proven. It has even been used in complement with Western medicine (e.g. to kill pain for open heart surgery - performed with no other anesthesia). "

COMPLETE FALSEHOOD!!!

Just TRY and find ANY evidence on the web. This BS all comes from Urban Legends surrounding one person who observed accupuncture being used for post-op pain relief for an appendectomy---and it didn't work!!! Accupuncture/pressure has NO basis in any nerve anatomy, no relation to anatomy in general, but relies on ancient Chinese "meridians" for placement. No allowance for variances in individuals' differing anatomical structures. It relies on belief-based placebo effect---if you believe, it MIGHT work, just like taking a sugar pill and believing it's morphine MIGHT work.

QUIT SPREADING LIES.

I have another brand but still does the TENS thing and I paid 100$ for it years ago. WOW, what a savings we are getting.
ps. Dont't drive with this thing on your neck. I barely managed to pull over to the side of the road when I accidently hit the full power dial.

Want abs, exercise and good nutrition work well. Want a massage, go to a good, certified massage therapist.

Want to spend lots of money, go to www.fisherwallace.com and get one of their "cranial stimulators".

My wife suffers from chronic pain (in addition to calling me the same thing) and has tried nearly all of the above devices, TENS, EMS, acupuncture, chiropractors, and numerous drugs from her regular doctors.

As a biased observer, I note that the only time she doesn't seem to be in pain is when she is distracted or absorbed in some other activity. Slot machines seem to be effective, especially observing the other players with seemingly similar ailments!

Bottom line, if you THINK it will help your pain, it MIGHT. On the other hand, it might be more of an economic stimulus package than an effective muscle or nerve stimulus.

BTW, is there an APP for this?

A not-so simple question for someone who might know:

I have stenosis in my lumbar spine. Essentially a form of arthritis that narrows the channels that the spinal cord and nerves pass through. When these nerves become irritated, they swell, which due to the narrowing of the channels causes additional pressure, more irritation and more swelling. It becomes a vicious cycle, and once started is difficult to get out of. And of course it hurts like crazy. My question is, will any treatment of this sort relieve the inflammation and help shrink the swollen nerve tissues?

socks.mark wrote:Do these do basically the same thing that the ones at my physical therapists office do? Or are they going to be weaker? My physical therapists always look at my funny when I say I can't feel it yet, so I'm guessing I need something with a lot of voltage.

To the best of my knowledge, these portable TENS units work exactly as the large units you usually see at the physical therapist's office. Much like the larger units, you are able to "dial in" the level of stimulation where you are most comfortable. Like any electronic device, all devices get better and much smaller with time and as the technology developes (compare an old laptop with a new one). Does this mean that the device is not as good or as strong as the big units in the therapist's offce?...not necessarily. Some of the units in a therapist's office are twenty five years old or maybe older. They look heavier, more serious and more expensive and that's the message the therapist wishes to convey. After all, check what you're being charged for the visit.

I'm an avid climber and was wondering if this would help with tendinitis and sore muscles.

lol

iguana71 wrote:Wow. This item really seems to irk someone here since it's taking away potential customers (affecting him directly or indirectly) who don't want to pay exorbitant fees for medical service add-ons that medical providers (probably PT in this case) make huge margins on. (i.e. insurance billable office TENS treatments and/or medical office sales of consumer grade TENS devices at 2000% markup) for services that can be done just as effectively at home.

Note how he comments on how this device is useless in one post yet claims one needs to heed the warnings of "real" TENS units when using this device in another. Too funny! lol

In for one.

This forum is about the Prospera massager and related medical topics. It is not about how someone makes a living. Attack his points, not the person.

Has anyone used this successfully for plantar fasciitis?

And those who have found bigger and not so expensive pads, how about posting some links please?

greatwhite35 wrote:Replacement Pads are $17 from that website. You get a better deal if you order 3 Massagers with the Pads from woot for $20 each.

Are the pads only good with that unit, or can you use other pads, as a Medic I work with my Physical Therapist allot in my clinic, and there are different sized pads, and styles that I order for him, can those generic brands be used with these?

will these pads work to give me a six-pack?

Does anyone know if this will work on charley-horse leg cramps? Thanks in advance!

acanarelli wrote:To the best of my knowledge, these portable TENS units work exactly as the large units you usually see at the physical therapist's office. Much like the larger units, you are able to "dial in" the level of stimulation where you are most comfortable. Like any electronic device, all devices get better and much smaller with time and as the technology developes (compare an old laptop with a new one). Does this mean that the device is not as good or as strong as the big units in the therapist's offce?...not necessarily. Some of the units in a therapist's office are twenty five years old or maybe older. They look heavier, more serious and more expensive and that's the message the therapist wishes to convey. After all, check what you're being charged for the visit.

The issue is not whether these TENS/EMS units emit electricity, but whether they do so in the therapeutic amplitude(intensity) and frequency claimed, and whether the programs do anything. Professional units don't have these weird programs which pulses the stimulation in seemingly arbitrary patterns. The biggest problem is that these units likely have never been been tested or verified. And Quality Control is likely poor. In a very informal study, we tested 15+ models from various manufacturers and many were very inconsistent in their output. Even among different units of the same model from the same company. Although we didn't test this Prospera, the fact that it uses an analog dial for intensity makes it even more unreliable because the dial is frequently bumped.

It's important to note that true medical equipment is professionally tested, calibrated and maintained on a regular basis. These aren't. It's not a good comparison.

RWoodward wrote:A not-so simple question for someone who might know:

I have stenosis in my lumbar spine. Essentially a form of arthritis that narrows the channels that the spinal cord and nerves pass through. When these nerves become irritated, they swell, which due to the narrowing of the channels causes additional pressure, more irritation and more swelling. It becomes a vicious cycle, and once started is difficult to get out of. And of course it hurts like crazy. My question is, will any treatment of this sort relieve the inflammation and help shrink the swollen nerve tissues?

I am not a doctor, but have some firsthand knowledge of spinal issues. IMHO this sort of treatment will not help your stenosis directly. It *can* help relieve situations where a nerve irritation causes a tense muscle, which causes more nerve irritation, etc. That's the "vicious cycle" I get into, and TENS can help that. It won't affect the nerves directly, though.

If you're aware of your diagnosis, I'm guessing you've seen a specialist already. You should definitely consult your doctor before trying your own homegrown therapy.

I have had good results from both office-visit and at-home TENS treatment, so for $25 I'll pop for one to throw in the desk drawer at work. My home unit cost over $100.

I'm willing to give it a shot for the price for sure!

mjaz62 wrote:Does anyone know if this will work on charley-horse leg cramps? Thanks in advance!

No, neither TENS nor EMS would stop a cramp, although a real TENS unit may stop any residual pain afterwards.

mjaz62 wrote:Does anyone know if this will work on charley-horse leg cramps? Thanks in advance!

Try quinine. I was on dialysis for ten years and that's what the nurses gave us. It should be available over the counter (or ask your pharmacist to order it). I always keep some at home.

sdc100 wrote:No, neither TENS nor EMS would stop a cramp, although a real TENS unit may stop any residual pain afterwards.

Thanks! I just bought two anyway - one for hubby and one for father-in-law.

I understand all of the points you are making about this unit, but I am cool with the idea that it might not be as powerful as a professional one. For most people with chronic pain, or even an occasional mild pain - this should be helpful. If the pain is REALLY severe, they probably should go to a professional anyway, so it won't matter if the home unit is not as strong, right?

Anyway, thanks for the reply!

RWoodward wrote:A not-so simple question for someone who might know:

I have stenosis in my lumbar spine. Essentially a form of arthritis that narrows the channels that the spinal cord and nerves pass through. When these nerves become irritated, they swell, which due to the narrowing of the channels causes additional pressure, more irritation and more swelling. It becomes a vicious cycle, and once started is difficult to get out of. And of course it hurts like crazy. My question is, will any treatment of this sort relieve the inflammation and help shrink the swollen nerve tissues?

No, neither TENS nor EMS would affect inflammation or spinal stenosis. In fact, EMS can cause more compression on the nerves by making your muscles vibrate (thump) on it. And TENS won't work because the irritation occurs inside the spine. You cannot and SHOULD NOT send random electrical pulses inside your spine or Central Nervous System. Doing so on the brain, for example, can evoke a seizure.

outdoorslife wrote:I for one would not buy a $20 TENS, EMS or STIM unit made in china. Especially given it does not have any certification or testing or quality control. Yea, I would just love to be the guinea pig for this device.

Agreed that it doesn't have any sort of medical certification, but what makes you think it has no testing or quality control? I don't see any basis for making this claim any more than one might claim that, e.g., Apple products made in China have no testing or quality control.

Being made in the U.S.A. and being a certified medical device isn't always much of a guarantee of quality either. See this article: http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/devices/the-shocking-truth-about-defibrillators

By the nature of their design, these low-power TENS units are a pretty low risk; even the FDA classifies them as "non-sigfnicant risk." (http://www.fda.gov/downloads/regulatoryinformation/guidances/ucm126418.pdf)

It is certainly advisable to have a chat with a doctor or chiropractor before using these if you've never done so before, though.

carsongell wrote:I find it very strange that Amazon raised the price of this item from 36.51 to 64.90.

Amazon didn't -- they ran out of their own stock and it's a third-party seller that's hawking them for ~$65.

Oooh, I just checked, and now it's at ~$55! :-)

bopitaddict wrote:will these pads work to give me a six-pack?

Several years ago, several As-Seen-on-TV EMS units did claim that you can get a six pack simply by wearing one. They claim that the contractions are similar to the crunches from situps. This is false. At best, EMS can move the muscles and is used medically to prevent atrophy of a paralyzed or injured limb. It does not burn calories or increase muslce size. Soon after these ads aired, the FDA and FTC cracked down and such claims are no longer legal.

It is important to note that TENS and EMS are very different in treatment and results. TENS uses high frequency, low amperage pulses to disrupt a pain impulse from reaching your central nervous system. It does not cause muscle contraction and feels like a buzz. EMS uses low frequency, higher amperage pulses to evoke muscle contraction. TENS target teh nerves, and EMS targets the muscles. A TENS unit, which this claims to be, would have no effect on the muscles, which you'd need for a si pack.

I saw the Amazon link has been posted and I imagine the Overstock link has also been posted already. If not, here is another indicator that this is a good price for this unit as well as an additional 26 reviews on Overstock.com:
http://www.overstock.com/Health-Beauty/Prosepra-PL009-Electronic-6-program-Pulse-Massager/5194075/product.html

And other 16 reviews on Buy.com:
http://www.buy.com/prod/prosepra-pl009-electronic-6-program-pulse-massager/217448975.html

surf06 wrote:As a biased observer, I note that the only time she doesn't seem to be in pain is when she is distracted or absorbed in some other activity. Slot machines seem to be effective, especially observing the other players with seemingly similar ailments!

Well, chronic pain is kinda like having the flu or a cold... albeit without the stuffy nose or diarrhea or other "obvious" symptoms: You just generally feel like crap, and it makes life a lot less pleasant. Sure, if you can distract yourself with something fun for awhile, that's great... but unless you've had chronic pain as well, you might not be able to imagine just how much of life it drains out of you.

Glad to see some science-based medicine promoters up in this thread.

@sdc100:
Speaking as a public health educator and scientist, I'd like to give you one of these:
http://www.wickedbad.net/harmsworth/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/internet_high_five.jpeg

You can get 16 pads for $10.95 here:
http://www.otcwholesale.com/koalaty-k220fx4.html

greatwhite35 wrote:Replacement Pads are $17 from that website. You get a better deal if you order 3 Massagers with the Pads from woot for $20 each.

for sdc100 !!
courtesy of wouldyoulikesometinychicken

[quote postid="4928651" user="JKoltner"]Agreed that it doesn't have any sort of medical certification, but what makes you think it has no testing or quality control? I don't see any basis for making this claim any more than one might claim that, e.g., Apple products made in China have no testing or quality control.


Based on cost… testing a product takes time and money, increasing overall product cost. Having dealt with production of tech in china, it can be done with quality, however it costs a great deal of money and time to get quality.

I’m not one of those “alternative medicine” people. If you have pain you should probably see a doctor or therapist first but if it is safe for you why not use a slightly less effective treatment rather than the grotesquely overpriced medical grade equivalent. If it was not for Woot I would have never tried one of these & my quality of life has certainly benefited.

You may have noticed most Wooters ignoring the medical “professionals” opinions here and still buying consumer TENS units. There is a reason for that; these things really work better for most people then professional treatment. And I’m not speaking about the direct effectiveness of treatment but actual day to day pain management availability.

Here is the highly technical equation.

(Professional TENS)
$200 A DAY + 2 hours out your day at a doctor’s office = 90% - 95% effective short term pain relief once or twice a week

(Consumer TENS)
Daily use for years costing less than the price of a single therapy session + convenient daily accessibility = 85% effective short term pain relief

You don’t have to do a study of 15 different devices to figure out this equation.

Rather than objectively studying the comparative merits of setting 5 on 15 different devices. Perhaps some Wooting doctors should accept the subjectivity of pain and try to figure out how a $30 device has helped so many people live with less pain. Then make the best consumer grade units available to everyone who can safely use them.

JKoltner wrote:Agreed that it doesn't have any sort of medical certification, but what makes you think it has no testing or quality control? I don't see any basis for making this claim any more than one might claim that, e.g., Apple products made in China have no testing or quality control.

Being made in the U.S.A. and being a certified medical device isn't always much of a guarantee of quality either. See this article: http://spectrum.ieee.org/biomedical/devices/the-shocking-truth-about-defibrillators

By the nature of their design, these low-power TENS units are a pretty low risk; even the FDA classifies them as "non-sigfnicant risk." (http://www.fda.gov/downloads/regulatoryinformation/guidances/ucm126418.pdf)

It is certainly advisable to have a chat with a doctor or chiropractor before using these if you've never done so before, though.

Real medical devices would publish their specs. For example, even simple thermometers and scales will tell you their accuracy within a percentage. As far as I can tell, no specs are available to the user in terms of what frequencies and amplitudes are used, and the tolerances used to establish accuracy. Furthermore, the basis of its claims (as evidenced by the Amazon description) has nothing to do with how TENS is applied. For example, what is WAIST vs SOLE? I don't know of any scientific basis for their programs.

As for the FDA statement, you've mischaracterized it. Those guidelines are published for IRBs and trained medical professionals. IN other words, the listed equipment is low risk when USED BY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS. It does not apply to casual home users. For example, other things on that list are Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) Devices and Manual Image Guided Surgery. Are you saying that an MRI machine and surgery are low risk for untrained users?

snowtao wrote:"(never use on your head),"

Correct! Only use this on the SHAFT!! I am totally serious. I already own a similar unit. Start out on a very low setting. Enjoy!