Goldwave wrote:Don't do it! I'm sorry, Woot, but as a musician, music lover, and historian, I have to speak out against your poorly considered decision to market this product. Here is why:

The issue isn't how cheap/expensive the device is; but the quality of the needle, and how the needle is held as it plays the record.

Remember - the needle will be scraping against what may be rare/valuable records. You can easily ruin a record by using a poor quality needle on it. I suspect the quality of this is so poor that it will ruin a record after ONE PLAY. If you don't believe me, do a little research on this issue.

Sorry but the fact is that if you want to play vinyl, with the least risk (because all needles will do a little damage), you need to get a high end needle and a device that will float the needle properly in the groove of the record, or you are going to trash it.

So instead of saving money, you will be throwing money and value away by destroying your records.

I doubt very highly that you'd trash a record after one play, even on this cheap device. And even given the ceramic needle and probably high tracking force, LP's can usually take some abuse, especially older LP's prior to the oil embargo in the 1970's.

But where I will agree with you is that I wouldn't risk it. Not on an LP that's worth more than the record player itself. In that case I'd research and buy either a decent budget table or go used (as a few others mentioned here). Some searching at thrifts or Craigslist and one could find a decent vintage table for cheap. But of course you'd need a phono stage for those, unless you already have a receiver. And most likely a new needle since you have no idea the condition of the used one.

roebeet wrote:I doubt very highly that you'd trash a record after one play, even on this cheap device. And even given the ceramic needle and probably high tracking force, LP's can usually take some abuse, especially older LP's prior to the oil embargo in the 1970's.

But where I will agree with you is that I wouldn't risk it. Not on an LP that's worth more than the record player itself. In that case I'd research and buy either a decent budget table or go used (as a few others mentioned here). Some searching at thrifts or Craigslist and one could find a decent vintage table for cheap. But of course you'd need a phono stage for those, unless you already have a receiver. And most likely a new needle since you have no idea the condition of the used one.

I completely disagree. One play CAN and will destroy a good vinyl album, from any vintage using an uncalibrated ceramic POS phono cartridge and arm.

Ringo4422 wrote:I completely disagree. One play CAN and will destroy a good vinyl album, from any vintage using an uncalibrated ceramic POS phono cartridge and arm.

I consider "destroy" to mean that you can hear very audible and permanent distortion after one play, whereas that distortion did not exist before play. With that definition in mind I don't agree with you. LP's are generally sturdier that people make them out to be.

Will there be damage after one play? Certainly. That's the case with all carts as the needle is physically touching the groove. It's the acceptable wear over time that's the concern. And after how many plays that damage actually becomes audible.

As I stated before, if someone has vintage vinyl in good shape and worth some $, or for that matter is planning to play new vinyl on this, I would definitely avoid. But for scratchy $1 LP's from a garage sale that one just wants to get an MP3 version of and then toss the vinyl? In that case this device could fit the bill.

EDIT: On the flip side, a really badly scratched / damaged record can actually damage a good needle. In my case I have a separate cart just for "questionable" LP's, but this device could also be an option for someone who doesn't want to risk a good needle on an already badly damaged record.

FWIW...Not being a "VINYL SNOB" I'd like to point out that many of what are now collectable records were often played on turntables that make this look pretty good in comparison. It's also a known fact that many recording engineers had less then state of the art playback systems at home.I have been in the music biz most of my life and have seen many of them upclose.

roebeet wrote:I doubt very highly that you'd trash a record after one play, even on this cheap device. And even given the ceramic needle and probably high tracking force, LP's can usually take some abuse, especially older LP's prior to the oil embargo in the 1970's.

But where I will agree with you is that I wouldn't risk it. Not on an LP that's worth more than the record player itself. In that case I'd research and buy either a decent budget table or go used (as a few others mentioned here). Some searching at thrifts or Craigslist and one could find a decent vintage table for cheap. But of course you'd need a phono stage for those, unless you already have a receiver. And most likely a new needle since you have no idea the condition of the used one.

Hi Roebbet, still rockin' my Viewsonic gPad with Brillient Corners.

jiggersgreen wrote:Hi Roebbet, still rockin' my Viewsonic gPad with Brillient Corners.

:thumbsup: :-)

My wife eventually took over my Gtablet and she got one of the early Team DRH ICS betas. I actually gave back and donated to all those devs for a job well done. Need to steal it back one of these days and upgrade it.

roebeet wrote:I consider "destroy" to mean that you can hear very audible and permanent distortion after one play, whereas that distortion did not exist before play. With that definition in mind I don't agree with you. LP's are generally sturdier that people make them out to be.

Will there be damage after one play? Certainly. That's the case with all carts as the needle is physically touching the groove. It's the acceptable wear over time that's the concern. And after how many plays that damage actually becomes audible.

As I stated before, if someone has vintage vinyl in good shape and worth some $, or for that matter is planning to play new vinyl on this, I would definitely avoid. But for scratchy $1 LP's from a garage sale that one just wants to get an MP3 version of and then toss the vinyl? In that case this device could fit the bill.

EDIT: On the flip side, a really badly scratched / damaged record can actually damage a good needle. In my case I have a separate cart just for "questionable" LP's, but this device could also be an option for someone who doesn't want to risk a good needle on an already badly damaged record.

I loaned my Nautalis half speed mastered Doors album that became DISTROYED BY ONE PLAY from a friend using a damaged stylis on his turntable. What was basically silent background became extremely hissy as a result of groove damage from ONE PLAY.

This description claims it plays 78's yet the same item, with exact model number on Amazon never mentions 78's. Customer reviews on amazon say it used to claim it played 78's but when item was received it was just a 2 speed player.

This is an inexpensive "record player" that can be used to play or transfer records to digital format. Obviously not high end equipment! Most all the negative comments have been made by those who do NOT have and have NOT used this equipment personally, so judge their comments appropriately if you are even remotely interested in this product.

Back in it's day ceramic cartridges played 45's and LP's equally well and at high enough decibel levels where distortion wasn't all that noticeable. The weak link was the output - the amplifier and the speaker quality. And that audio quality was much better than the ubiquitous compact cassettes lower fidelity range.

Will this type of player cause damage to your vinyl records? Doubtful, and surely doubtful if only used for its intended purpose of transferring the media to digital format. Come on, "dig holes" in the vinyl. More damage is done to vinyl using a worn stylus than this could do with a new stylus.

If I personally could find a cheap effective way to hook my one of my purist Pioneer, Yamaha, or Thorens turntables via USB, I'd do so. But this Woot offering may be suitable to a one time conversion and even has (2) Spare Cartridge / Needle(s) so as one starts to wear I can replace it with a fresh one. BTW, my 300 plus vinyl collection from the 60's, 70's, and 80's was always meticulously cared for ( the 45's - not so much so). Even went through the Quadrophonic phase with the AudioTechnica cartridges. Oooh, The Who's Quadrophenia in Quad playing through JBL studio monitors along with Infinity Reference Std towers. And yes modern Jazz had a warmth that digital seems to lack.

Well worth the price. And remember, you own ears (not the specs) are the best judge for your needs.

Ringo4422 wrote:I loaned my Nautalis half speed mastered Doors album that became DISTROYED BY ONE PLAY from a friend using a damaged stylis on his turntable. What was basically silent background became extremely hissy as a result of groove damage from ONE PLAY.

Sorry to hear that.

But just for reference, I used to own an old Emerson record player in my youth. Not only was this player cheaply made, but I'm almost certain that I overused the stylus past its recommended play time, and I never cleaned it. Some of my oldest records are damaged because of this (mainly because I played them over and over and over again).

But some of the ones I had gotten later on actually sound good even to this day - I would specifically play the LP maybe once or twice to record it to cassette, then shelve the LP. And that seems to have helped a lot even with a likely old stylus on a craptastic record player.

So I guess we look at these from our own personal experiences. I'd argue that if your friend's stylus was badly damaged and his tracking was all messed up ie tracking too light, that could have actually been worse than playing it off this Vibe device assuming that its crappy ceramic stylus is relatively new with not too much play time. It all depends.

It's a moot point anyway because I wouldn't play a half-speed mastered Doors LP on this Vibe device. If the LP costs more than the player you're using it on, then that's a bit of a problem.

Mine broke after a few months.

thandar wrote:This description claims it plays 78's yet the same item, with exact model number on Amazon never mentions 78's. Customer reviews on amazon say it used to claim it played 78's but when item was received it was just a 2 speed player.

The one that has (fake) chrome grills over the speakers, like seen in the video review in the posts here, does not have 78. The plain one with no grills like Woot shows does have 78. Mine does have 78. Woot generally but not always shows pictures it has taken in its own studio from the stock it has - woot has a video about taking those pictures somewhere in the site. So, very most likely, this batch really is a batch with 78.

roebeet wrote:I consider "destroy" to mean that you can hear very audible and permanent distortion after one play, whereas that distortion did not exist before play. With that definition in mind I don't agree with you. LP's are generally sturdier that people make them out to be.

Will there be damage after one play? Certainly. That's the case with all carts as the needle is physically touching the groove. It's the acceptable wear over time that's the concern. And after how many plays that damage actually becomes audible.

As I stated before, if someone has vintage vinyl in good shape and worth some $, or for that matter is planning to play new vinyl on this, I would definitely avoid. But for scratchy $1 LP's from a garage sale that one just wants to get an MP3 version of and then toss the vinyl? In that case this device could fit the bill.

EDIT: On the flip side, a really badly scratched / damaged record can actually damage a good needle. In my case I have a separate cart just for "questionable" LP's, but this device could also be an option for someone who doesn't want to risk a good needle on an already badly damaged record.

If all you ever heard was the record being played through this record player, you may never notice the damage done by one play with a bad needle. That being said, one play can most definitely wreck havok on the sound of a record. No, you're not going to hear skipping or scratching...but a bad needle or a needle with too much force behind it can destroy the fine detail in the sound. This is why I would never play GOOD/new/rare vinyl on a record player that doesn't have a known good needle and a counterweight on the tone arm that has been properly calibrated. You have to realize that the stylus tracking the vinyl grooves heats up the vinyl enough to embed dust in the grooves (those are the "pops" that you hear on non-virgin vinyl). An uncalibrated tone arm/stylus could technical heat up the grooves hot enough to momentarily (we're talking a fraction of a second) melt the grooves.

This is also the reason why you really can't grade a record by sight. You can't see tracking damage in a record, but you can sure hear the lack of detail when played on a decent player.

gak0090 wrote:The thing that confuses me the most, is even if this were a good device...what's the point? Most recordings are available digitally anyway- in a much cleaner and accurate form. If you want to listen to the analog vinyl attributes, you would want to play it on a good turntable when you listen to it. I love a well preserved vinyl record on a good turntable played through a nice system. On the other hand, trying to digitize a vinyl recording is kind of goofy to me- unless the recording does not exist in digital form commercially. And in the case you were going to preserve a recording that does not exist digitally, you would not do it on a $15 turntable where the tone arm probably weighs 1/4 pound.

Some songs just don't sound "right" in a digital format that "clean and accurate" sound is more like "sterile and lifeless". How can you listen to old Black Sabbath or AC/DC or Motorhead without the pops and hisses? It's like listening thru a filter.

The problem with this turntable is not that it is made of cheap plastic or that it won't sound great, it is truly all in the tonearm and cartridge/needle. The tracking force (amount of pressure the needle puts on the record) on these cheap all in one setups is typically over 3 times the amount of a better cartridge/needle. 1 to 2 grams is quite common for a good setup. These cheap ones often use forces of 6 to 8 grams and are not adjustable. Taping a coin to the top of the needle only makes it worse. Playing a record with a needle at that force will definitely wear your records out much, much faster. And since there are no adjustments, if the needle is not aligned perfectly, there's a good chance you will damaged the inner and outer grooves, creating a lot of permanent distortion on your record as well.

I have a Direct Drive Technics with strobe and hydraulics and you know where it is... the attic. I have 300+ albums that might finally get listened to. I don't think once around the block is gonna ruin them. Rubber Soul, baby!

jaba1337 wrote:The problem with this turntable is not that it is made of cheap plastic or that it won't sound great, it is truly all in the tonearm and cartridge/needle. The tracking force (amount of pressure the needle puts on the record) on these cheap all in one setups is typically over 3 times the amount of a better cartridge/needle. 1 to 2 grams is quite common for a good setup. These cheap ones often use forces of 6 to 8 grams and are not adjustable. Taping a coin to the top of the needle only makes it worse. Playing a record with a needle at that force will definitely wear your records out much, much faster. And since there are no adjustments, if the needle is not aligned perfectly, there's a good chance you will damaged the inner and outer grooves, creating a lot of permanent distortion on your record as well.

Not quite. It's much more than the quality of the cartridge and arm. Even IF you could mount a decent arm and cartridge to this thing, it would be a total vibrating rumble generator. As well the WOW (speed fluctuation) and speed inconsistancy would still be there. This thing isn't worth the cardboard and plastic it is built with.

danbooke2001 wrote:This makes sense! So another question, are vinyls still being made for current music?

I got the last Pearl Jam album on vinyl and it was worth it for the artwork alone: BackSpacer

I actually buy most new music on vinyl. Interestingly enough, most artist include a code to download the full MP3 version of the album too so you don't need to rip it to take it along. (unfortunately Pearl Jam is not one of those Artists)

Ringo4422 wrote:Not quite. It's much more than the quality of the cartridge and arm. Even IF you could mount a decent arm and cartridge to this thing, it would be a total vibrating rumble generator. As well the WOW (speed fluctuation) and speed inconsistancy would still be there. This thing isn't worth the cardboard and plastic it is built with.

I get the impression that you don't like this Vibe turntable. ;) Now you're beating up on its wow/flutter ratings. Don't forget about grounding and pitch adjustment. (seriously though, I'm just messing around and I still cringe thinking about that Doors LP of yours. I own a few of the Doors Rhino reissues, myself)

If I didn't have three turntables already (and possibly feel the wrath of my spouse), I almost want to buy one of these just for the heck of it to see how it really performs. Again, $1 bargain bin LP's only, for testing.


EDIT: At whoever asked about modern releases, vinyl is alive and well for Indie stuff, in particular. I buy two or three new LP's a month, on average. As with any release, some sound great on LP, some not so much so. It's a crapshoot like anything else.

Plug and play and burn to CD w/o any other sw? also windows xp is missing. will it work with ep?

offline999 wrote:
I actually buy most new music on vinyl. Interestingly enough, most artist include a code to download the full MP3 version of the album too so you don't need to rip it to take it along. (unfortunately Pearl Jam is not one of those Artists)

On a related note, for those here who are just interested in a digital copy of some old stuff without having to pay for it all over again, if you can find it online, it is completely legal to download a copy of any music you own on any other format, as the money you paid for the media not only covers the production costs, but the license to listen to the music as long as you own the media it was purchased on.

That's how I build my library mostly. It's WAY faster to just download an album at a time, already organized and most of the time mp3 tagged, than to rip CD's and name/organize them manually. There are programs out there to help with that, but it's still simpler just to download and be done...

jaqual wrote:On a related note, for those here who are just interested in a digital copy of some old stuff without having to pay for it all over again, if you can find it online, it is completely legal to download a copy of any music you own on any other format, as the money you paid for the media not only covers the production costs, but the license to listen to the music as long as you own the media it was purchased on.

That's how I build my library mostly. It's WAY faster to just download an album at a time, already organized and most of the time mp3 tagged, than to rip CD's and name/organize them manually. There are programs out there to help with that, but it's still simpler just to download and be done...

Not sure of your location, but in the US this is not legal. If someone in the US downloads music from a P2P site for example, it doesn't matter if they have the music in a previous format like LP. The action itself violates US copyright law.

I'm not talking about ethics or fair use, which is another matter. I'm just talking about legalities here. I do believe there are a few countries where this doesn't apply so it does depend on where you live.

Remember all the "Excalibur" stuff Woot used to sell,I wonder if that company changed it's name to Vibe!

I've been looking for something to sample records for use with my MPC (beat making machine) for a while.
USB? Easy conversion!
Optional aux out? great for hooking up directly to MPC!
Built in speakers? Nice for previewing songs! Thanks woot

Not a ceramic needle, a ceramic cartridge, a.k.a. pick-up.

Unlike some wooters, I'm old enough to have actually owned records and turntables in my youth. I even fancied myself a bit of an enthusiast at one point. So I know a little about this stuff.

Ceramic cartridges were strictly for low-end systems. Their primary strength was their ability to have their signal fed directly into an amplifier. A magnetic cartridge, used in higher-end turntables, required a preamp, either a separate unit or part of an integrated amplifier. (receivers are integrated amplifiers plus a tuner) Preamps needed more circuitry, which meant more expense, but they were the only way to get a true hifi signal.

Anyway, the people telling you this thing will chew up your records are right - it will. It's up to you to decide whether your vinyl is worth protecting. Remember lots of people over the years owned stereos with ceramic cartridges - most of those all-in-one things with the record player built into the top used ceramic cartridges. But a true audiophile would shudder at the thought of playing his or her pristine discs on this turntable.

hosesplus wrote:Some songs just don't sound "right" in a digital format that "clean and accurate" sound is more like "sterile and lifeless". How can you listen to old Black Sabbath or AC/DC or Motorhead without the pops and hisses? It's like listening thru a filter.

Try this (its free):

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/vinyl/



iZotope Vinyl
The ultimate lo-fi weapon, iZotope Vinyl uses 64-bit processing and advanced filtering, modeling and resampling to create authentic "vinyl" simulation, as if the audio was a record being played on a record player.

You have complete control over the following parameters:

Mechanical Noise: The amount of turntable motor rumble and noise
Wear: Control how worn out the record is, from brand new to played a few thousand times
Electrical Noise: Internally generated electrical noise, such as 60 Hz grounding hum
Dust: The amount of dust on the record
Scratch: The number and depth of scratches on the record
Warp Depth: The amount of warping and the warp shape for the record—from no warp to the edges totally melted and warped

I've been thinking about getting this all day. I got a crate of misc. no-names and one-hit wonders I'd like to mess around with, sample their destruction into instruments for use in obscure electronic music. distorted electronic noise is all the rage these days, right? -- of course for private use only, as any distribution of unlicensed use of said reproductions of audio would be wrong.

after I get bored with that, I'd probably take it apart and re-use its circuitry in some other project that'll get put away in a box for years to come.

quality arguments aside, there are some reasons to go vinyl over non-vinyl. a couple of examples:

Artist: DJ Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince
Album: I'm the rapper, he's the DJ.

Song: "Nightmare on my street"

On Vinyl - extended verses with more lyrics.

On CD - lyrics cut out, probably for radio-friendly time, not available on any other copy I've ever seen other than the 12" double-pack album.

....
Artist: BT
Album: Movement in Still Life

CD (non-U.S. version): all songs are beat mixed into each other for a continuous dance floor/listening experience.

Vinyl: songs are complete with full intro/outro, sutable for one-off listens and DJ friendly.

.......

Artist: Beasty Boys
Album: License to Ill

Album: inside artwork is in color.

CD: inside artwork is grayscale.

but that's if you really care about such things. to most people, music is music. -hard copy or not.

and on the topic of vinyl and equipment, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as my understanding goes, "Diamond Tip" stylus just means the shape of the tip, not the actual material that it's made out of.

You don't need a USB turntable to convert your vinyl to mp3's. You can plug any turntable into your pc's audio input and do it with audacity.

OK. I bought one. I've had those Disney records from Woot! for like three years. Since they are never going to be worth anything, I might as well get a record player to play them on.

mommadillo wrote:Not a ceramic needle, a ceramic cartridge, a.k.a. pick-up.

Unlike some wooters, I'm old enough to have actually owned records and turntables in my youth. I even fancied myself a bit of an enthusiast at one point. So I know a little about this stuff.

Ceramic cartridges were strictly for low-end systems. Their primary strength was their ability to have their signal fed directly into an amplifier. A magnetic cartridge, used in higher-end turntables, required a preamp, either a separate unit or part of an integrated amplifier. (receivers are integrated amplifiers plus a tuner) Preamps needed more circuitry, which meant more expense, but they were the only way to get a true hifi signal.

Anyway, the people telling you this thing will chew up your records are right - it will. It's up to you to decide whether your vinyl is worth protecting. Remember lots of people over the years owned stereos with ceramic cartridges - most of those all-in-one things with the record player built into the top used ceramic cartridges. But a true audiophile would shudder at the thought of playing his or her pristine discs on this turntable.

Unfortunately I am one of those old dudes as well. ;) Vinyl was THE format, when I was a kid. Cassettes were still secondary, until I was a bit older.

Not to rehash what I wrote before, but only to say I agree with you in that if the buyer has expensive LP's, using this device is NOT a good idea. I know I wouldn't use it on my most important LP's. But on bargain bin stuff that one doesn't really care about anyway, that's a different story. It's up to the buyer, as you stated.

buffaloed wrote:You don't need a USB turntable to convert your vinyl to mp3's. You can plug any turntable into your pc's audio input and do it with audacity.

Not always true. The turntable would need a phono stage if you used the RCA out plugs. A vintage TT wouldn't likely have a built in one but you could use either an external pre-amp or a receiver, if the receiver had a phono stage built-in.

USB turntables, from my experience, usually have the phono stage built-in as its assumed that the buyer isn't going to have a receiver.


EDIT: @TheTimmy -- a diamond tip is really diamond (at least it should be).

I had a similar one- that I tossed.
Probably for the same reasons.
Does it play and record mono or stereo?
And if stereo, how much separation?
My other one was supposed to be stereo- it was all just combined into two mono outputs.

ThunderThighs wrote:Is anyone else getting a yikes error when you post?

YIKES!

Already bought one of these yesterday but thanks to those who suggested using a phono preamp to use my vintage turntables. It cost more than the Vibe unit. Also thinking about bypassing the sound card connection and using a line level input to usb device to directly connect to the computer. Hopefully, I can use some of the audio software I already have.

I bought 3 of these and was surprised today to find that 1 of them has been delivered already. Just sent an email to Woot asking if I should be concerned as Woot usually sends all items at once. UPS tracking from the package is only showing 1 package too.

Bought one....Does NOT have 78 RPM as advertised. Pissadointed.

ThunderThighs wrote:It's likely that they were shipped separately. We're trying out new shipping methods including Fulfillment by Amazon where our vendors deliver stuff to their warehouse for shipping. They ship out things separately.

Received the other two today, none have the 78 RPM but great job on the new shipping method, I'm impressed!!!

thandar wrote:This description claims it plays 78's yet the same item, with exact model number on Amazon never mentions 78's. Customer reviews on amazon say it used to claim it played 78's but when item was received it was just a 2 speed player.

I'm confused about this too! How do I make this play a 78??


[MOD: Read that post up there ^ ^ ^. Email service@woot.com for help. Sorry for the inconvenience.]