radi0j0hn


quality posts: 95 Private Messages radi0j0hn

Every time a "new" type of heater comes along, there is SO much misinformation about them, partly from people who just don't think it through

For example, in the early 80's these tall vertical heaters with quartz rods were the rage. One fellow told me that he like his unit because "it only heats living things, not inanimate objects."

acpress.com Not cute, but useful.

duscal


quality posts: 1 Private Messages duscal

I bought one of these last year on Woot. I had a similar experience to others on here. It worked well while it lasted, but come December, only a couple months later, the heater stopped functioning correctly. At first it would just provide an error message and quit running after about 10 minutes. After that it quit all together. I tried cleaning the filter and other accessible parts and nothing helped. I would not buy again now that I know others experienced similar life of the product. Two months is not long enough! Not to mention the heavy impact it had on my electric bill...

kayzc


quality posts: 1 Private Messages kayzc

I haven't read the other comments, sry sorts in a rush (halloween n all lol) but wanted to comment.

We bought this unit (one near identicle, same wood, looks same specs far as I can tell) a few years ago in november(we have a central air system thats about 15 years old . . . So new heaters with better energy technology can make a big difference for us). The first year that spring my nerdiness got the better of me so I figured out if it saved us anything. I think we spent about $200 bucks for ours then on sale, and when I took the cost we spent the year before from date of purchase to date of figuring it out then figured out cost per the heat unit (as in, how much it took to get it from outside temp here to room temp, this can be found on some weather sites) compared to cost per heat unit the previous winter (also figured in the cost per energy used because that was different from previous year through our provider, yes- im a nerd). I figured out that the heater would probably pay for itself within the first month of fall that coming fall. And that was with it costing considerably more then here.

We purchased a second one (more cheaply made with just metal finish) at menards black friday last year. If I had any need for a third I'd grab one if these lol (almost thought about it anyways just in case . . . lmbo). Anyways, just wanted to throw that out. I haven't bothered to figure what we've saved or not since lol, was happy enough we saved enough to justify the cost to beginn with.

tomarnett


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tomarnett

Wow! A heater you cant ship to freezing cold Alaska. That is a bunch of crap!

tom arnett

kayzc


quality posts: 1 Private Messages kayzc

I wonder if something changed. I just checked, we bought ours december 5th 2010 from samsclub for $206.19 after shipping and tax. Its held up to two littble boys rolling it around, climbing on it and generally being little kids that realised something rolls. The first year we even left it out all summer (last year we found storage space because I was afraid the kids would break it if it was left out again). It still works great. We got it out a couple weeks ago and its doing fine, no problems. The cheaper metal finish one we bought last fall is also still working fine. I hope that continues lol (knock on wood) I wonder if something changed with how they were made? Ours is on pretty much 24/7 through winter. We set it so that it and the other heater plus a few smaller energy effecient ones (in bedrooms/bathrooms) bear most the heating bulk, and if they cant keep the house above 60 then our central system kicks in, so these are literally on almost non-stop through the winter.

duscal wrote:I bought one of these last year on Woot. I had a similar experience to others on here. It worked well while it lasted, but come December, only a couple months later, the heater stopped functioning correctly. At first it would just provide an error message and quit running after about 10 minutes. After that it quit all together. I tried cleaning the filter and other accessible parts and nothing helped. I would not buy again now that I know others experienced similar life of the product. Two months is not long enough! Not to mention the heavy impact it had on my electric bill...



rpstrong


quality posts: 5 Private Messages rpstrong
jplonmars wrote:tigerdirect.com have similar item(Lifesmart LS-3ECO) for $90 and they had one for $60 after rebate just hours ago (too bad that promo expired)


[MOD: The one you mention is for an 800sq ft room. This is for a 1500sq ft room]



To Mod: Boo, Hiss. The advertised square footage is not an actual specification, it is a marketing term. It can be whatever the manufacturer chooses to claim.

The only real spec is the wattage - which is 1500 (max) for both units. Therefore, they are entirely equal in heat output - no matter what size room the advertising exec puts them in.

rpstrong


quality posts: 5 Private Messages rpstrong
pa28pilot wrote:Plus, even a resistive load has some current flow, so I would think that some of the electricity doesn't get converted into anything.



If it doesn't get converted into anything, then what happens to it?

rpstrong


quality posts: 5 Private Messages rpstrong
cmdrredhawk wrote:This is simply not true. With a bulb based heater, some of the energy is converted to visible light, and therefore not heat.



But the light will be partially reflected, partially absorbed (creating heat) by every surface it hits until it is entirely absorbed.

Note that a window may allow the light to escape the room, taking its potential heat along.

rpstrong


quality posts: 5 Private Messages rpstrong
gak0090 wrote:So if it is arguably very close to 100% and not relevant, your "NOT TRUE" loses a lot of credence. If you want to split hairs some of that visible light creates some heat also. In the same way- you are correct theoretically, yet still not relevant.



It isn't 'arguably close', it is absolute. The relevance is that ALL electric heaters are equally efficient.

TCayer


quality posts: 9 Private Messages TCayer
jplonmars wrote:It's funny that they have to say this is an Infrared Heater to make it sound like it's high-tech stuff.
When in fact, all heats are "Infrared". Since they have waveform with longer wavelength then the red visible light. Hence, all heat are considered Infrared ........

Also, if a heater somehow emits light, it "probably" won't be as energy efficient as the heater emits heat only(without the light).(notice I said “probably” cause there are other factors to consider.)

It’s like if a light that emits heat, that light probably won’t be efficient for its purpose (for lighting). The reason why incandescent light are NOT considered energy efficient cause 90+% of energy become heat and less than 10% of that become light. (When we flip the light switch, we weren't looking for heat, we were looking for light) (The reason why CFLs are more efficient because a higher percentage of that becomes light and less percentage of that become heat. If you noticed, CFLs are cooler to the touch)

The same could be true for a heater when we want 100% of energy(electricity) to be converted to heat (not light). And somehow this heater gives you a bit of light. (not heat) 

But on the brighter side, this heater probably is a safer heater due to the fact that it doesn't expose its heating element. So nobody can get burned by touching any outside part of the product.



Snark all you want, but this is by far the most efficient heater I've ever used! I've tried the oil-filled radiator type, several different element style ones, and THIS one heats my entire downstairs! All without getting too hot to touch. I keep it in the dining room where my thermostat is, and as a result, the furnace never comes on. At night I turn it off and let the furnace heat the upstairs. 1500 square feet is bigger than some houses! A typical ceramic or radiant element heater is maybe good for 200. They use the same electricity! I saved around $100 a month on my gas bill last winter. I just recently bought two more to try upstairs.

BTW- If you plug in 15 100-watt lightbulbs, you won't heat 1500 square feet!

rpstrong


quality posts: 5 Private Messages rpstrong
TCayer wrote:Snark all you want, but this is by far the most efficient heater I've ever used! I've tried the oil-filled radiator type, several different element style ones, and THIS one heats my entire downstairs! All without getting too hot to touch. I keep it in the dining room where my thermostat is, and as a result, the furnace never comes on. At night I turn it off and let the furnace heat the upstairs. 1500 square feet is bigger than some houses! A typical ceramic or radiant element heater is maybe good for 200. They use the same electricity! I saved around $100 a month on my gas bill last winter. I just recently bought two more to try upstairs.

BTW- If you plug in 15 100-watt lightbulbs, you won't heat 1500 square feet!



Not snarking, but the reason for this one heating more area than the oil filled one is that it uses a fan. This circulates the air more, heating a larger area. But it is also working longer hours - the oil filled one heats its immediate area, then shuts off till the air cools.

A basic law of physics is that energy cannot be created or destroyed, only converted in form. Every electric heater produces the exact same amount of heat per watt. How you use it - especially, how you circulate it - is another matter.

negriesenauer


quality posts: 11 Private Messages negriesenauer

We've had one for a few years for our basement family room. We only use it about four hours a day. It works ok. Takes the chill off. It does add about $40 to our monthly electric bill. So that is a bit of a bummer.

cnwinton


quality posts: 8 Private Messages cnwinton

Electric space heaters are 100% efficient at converting electricity into heat, whether infrared radiative (which heats the object it impacts rather than the air) or convection (which heats the air). However, a Watt is a Watt, so at 1500 Watts, this space heater produces the same amount of heat you get from your 1500 Watt hair drier (and the typical 20 Amp circuit cannot handle much more than 1500 Watts). If you want to consider efficiency, a heat pump can produce up to 5 times as much heat per Watt consumed; i.e., this is a SPACE heater, perhaps useful for a small area, but not a large room or a whole house.

stfuqua


quality posts: 1 Private Messages stfuqua
rpstrong wrote:
The only real spec is the wattage - which is 1500 (max) for both units. Therefore, they are entirely equal in heat output - no matter what size room the advertising exec puts them in.



Mostly true, but I think the square foot mark can be tied to the amount of air from the fan/blower. These type heaters have a great "squirrel cage" fan in them that really puts out nice airflow.

I have an older small Ceramic box heater, about an 8" cube. It too is rated at 1500W, but can't heat the same area as this heater. The fan is anemic in comparison. The cube is fine in the bathroom, but it would be overkill to have this heater in a bathroom.

So just my 2 cents on directly comparing only the Wattage rating.

gak0090


quality posts: 78 Private Messages gak0090
rpstrong wrote:It isn't 'arguably close', it is absolute. The relevance is that ALL electric heaters are equally efficient.



That was my point. I was responding to someone else.

nairb101


quality posts: 4 Private Messages nairb101
gak0090 wrote:Where is the infrared on this heater?



Put your hand next to it while it's on. That's infrared radiation. If it were visible, it wouldn't be infrared.

Xexus


quality posts: 6 Private Messages Xexus
Cabinet - Fire retardant plastic with simulated wood trim



Shouldn't that say, "Combustably Challenged"?

Signature censored by Woot

bluedreams


quality posts: 2 Private Messages bluedreams
cnwinton wrote:(and the typical 20 Amp circuit cannot handle much more than 1500 Watts)



20 amps can more than handle 1500 watts seeing as 20 amps at 120 is 2400 watts.

geo8rge


quality posts: 33 Private Messages geo8rge
cnwinton wrote: (and the typical 20 Amp circuit cannot handle much more than 1500 Watts).



The typical household circuit is designed for 15 amps, but maybe can be upgraded to 20 amps if they did not use less expensive (thinner) wire. More and more, do to inflation, people are using 14 instead of 12 gauge wire. 14 gauge household wire does not contemplate ever upgrading to 20 amps.


(Overall signature size was getting large. Recommended signature size is 5k.)

gak0090


quality posts: 78 Private Messages gak0090
nairb101 wrote:Put your hand next to it while it's on. That's infrared radiation. If it were visible, it wouldn't be infrared.



It's convection heat Mr Wizard.

Bay Area John


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Bay Area John
geo8rge wrote:The typical household circuit is designed for 15 amps, but maybe can be upgraded to 20 amps if they did not use less expensive (thinner) wire. More and more, do to inflation, people are using 14 instead of 12 gauge wire. 14 gauge household wire does not contemplate ever upgrading to 20 amps.


So if it is not contemplating upgrading, then just what is 14 gauge wire thinking about?

ratmotor


quality posts: 2 Private Messages ratmotor

I think I'll spend another $200, and buy a real wood Amish $30 heater.

Bay Area John


quality posts: 4 Private Messages Bay Area John
gak0090 wrote:It's convection heat Mr Wizard.



Convection is a transfer method, not an energy type, Mr Gak.

rpstrong


quality posts: 5 Private Messages rpstrong
ratmotor wrote:I think I'll spend another $200 and buy a real wood Amish $30 heater.



In for two!

tydaeus


quality posts: 1 Private Messages tydaeus

Nice while it lasts -

Bought one last year, good heat output and circulation by space heater standards. Unfortunately, started automatically shutting off (not cycling back on until a full manual power off and on) later in the cold season, so need to see what can be done about servicing it...

W00tyMcW00tster


quality posts: 3 Private Messages W00tyMcW00tster
Kizzbot wrote:I have this exact model. Trust me, they are worthless unless you are just trying to heat a small bathroom.



Could it be that your bathroom just might be bigger than 1500Sq. Ft? Huh? Could it?

critias


quality posts: 3 Private Messages critias

I bought two of these last year, from two other sites, for the same price.. this obviously isn't really a bargain. Decent product, I like it and would buy it again, but I expected a better offering from Woot than I can find elsewhere.

inflationary


quality posts: 0 Private Messages inflationary
whitcwa wrote:Why do heaters cause woot such scientific confusion? This distributes the heat via convection - not by infrared. It has a fan which blows the hot air out. It doesn't matter whether the heating elements are infrared quartz tubes, nichrome wire (like a toaster), or 10,000 gerbils. Except for a little bit which is emitted through radiation via the window, this is a forced air convection heater.
I guess I should be happy that they have stopped touting efficiency.



Yep - quartz, tungsten, nichrome, halogen are really all the same principle = "Joule heating." Current passes through a resistor and turns into light and heat. "Quartz" - like this one - just means the tungsten filament is inside a fused silica envelope (silica being quartz glass). Think of it as an ultra long-life Edison light bulb - turned way down low so it just glows orange and lasts for years. Bottom line is that virtually all of the electricity is turned into heat, hence very conversion efficient. BUT if rated at 1500W 120VAC, it will suck 12.5A, which is 83% of the ampacity of a 14-gauge (15A) copper feed. So don't dare put anything else on the same breaker. For a 12-gauge (20A) line the load drops to 62% capacity...much better. Affect is that you are wasting a lot of the heat in the wires getting to your heater. To find out how much, put a VAC meter across the feed with/without the heater turned on. (Disclaimer-know what you are doing else you become the resistor.) YIKES! That voltage drop shows just how much heat never got to the heater --- lost in the walls. Trumping all of this techno-speak is that electric heat power just costs WAY more than gas, oil, coal, wood. If you were to leave this thing on for a year - It would consume over 13,000 KWH. That's a lot of electricity $$ but relatively little gas. Best, most convenient "area" heaters are the small, cheap ones for ~$20 new. Yes, electric heaters are conversion-efficient if run off a high-ampacity circuit. But they all are very cost inefficient. All the glitz is just marketing.

drrf


quality posts: 0 Private Messages drrf

I bought one of these, it came cosmetically broken and can't be set below 65 degrees the latter along with its size made it useless. $100 down the drain.

gak0090


quality posts: 78 Private Messages gak0090
Bay Area John wrote:Convection is a transfer method, not an energy type, Mr Gak.



Yeah ns.

estitabarnak


quality posts: 2 Private Messages estitabarnak
AbEnd wrote: Take the Safe "Green" Approach

Infrared heat will circulate and recycle heated air from floor to ceiling while maintaining the air's oxygen and humidity


Do other heaters diminish the air's oxygen? ARE WE RUNNING OUT OF OXYGEN BECAUSE WE CHOSE THE WRONG HEATER? WHAT WILL OUR CHILDREN BREATHE?



Well, yes. Using combustion for heat (say, with my natural gas heater) uses oxygen from the air. That's just chemistry. You shouldn't plan on running out of oxygen unless you do something stupid; but every winter people do stupid things.

msujp


quality posts: 1 Private Messages msujp

this will look perfect in your trailer

kmaglione


quality posts: 1 Private Messages kmaglione
AbEnd wrote:Do other heaters diminish the air's oxygen? ARE WE RUNNING OUT OF OXYGEN BECAUSE WE CHOSE THE WRONG HEATER? WHAT WILL OUR CHILDREN BREATHE?



I know this was not a serious question, but the answer is yes. Portable gas and kerosene heaters without external venting turn the O₂ in the air mostly into H₂0, CO₂, and CO, which is why they shouldn't be used for long periods or while sleeping.

CuzzinMerl


quality posts: 24 Private Messages CuzzinMerl
inflationary wrote: Affect is that you are wasting a lot of the heat in the wires getting to your heater.



Unless those wires are running outdoors, that heat is not being wasted. It's being used to heat the air in the room where the heater is located. It just means the heater unit itself just has to do a little less work.

jplonmars


quality posts: 8 Private Messages jplonmars
rpstrong wrote:But the light will be partially reflected, partially absorbed (creating heat) by every surface it hits until it is entirely absorbed.

Note that a window may allow the light to escape the room, taking its potential heat along.



Agree!
And I am not sorry that I started a scientific debate! LOL
Just want to point out a few marketing gimmick that some are using. LOL

Shinespark


quality posts: 31 Private Messages Shinespark
gak0090 wrote:So if it is arguably very close to 100% and not relevant, your "NOT TRUE" loses a lot of credence. If you want to split hairs some of that visible light creates some heat also. In the same way- you are correct theoretically, yet still not relevant.


Correcting a claim that violates the first law of thermodynamics is fairly relevant.

rpstrong


quality posts: 5 Private Messages rpstrong
W00tyMcW00tster wrote:Could it be that your bathroom just might be bigger than 1500Sq. Ft? Huh? Could it?



That ought to be another Quality Post.

gak0090


quality posts: 78 Private Messages gak0090
Shinespark wrote:Correcting a claim that violates the first law of thermodynamics is fairly relevant.



Rainman did you follow the entire thread? Maybe you should find the original posted response from cmdrredhawk so that you can understand my response- you are taking it out of context.

zadriel


quality posts: 8 Private Messages zadriel

WHAT'S THE WARRANTY ON THIS?

pinballace


quality posts: 1 Private Messages pinballace
gak0090 wrote:Just FYI in case people did not realize this:

The truth is that all electric heaters are 100% efficient. It doesn't matter if it is a light bulb filament, a fancy quartz heater, the elements in your electric furnace, the elements in your electric hot water heater or your toaster. The fact is that 100% of the electrical energy is converted into heat and there is nothing you can do to increase or decrease that energy conversion.

http://toad.net/~jseenen/electric.html



That is not correct. It depends on the efficiency of the design. If the fan is such that it draws too much current then the heat is dissipated within the cabinet. If the heating element is not efficient and "sinks" some of the wattage or is cooled then the heating is not going to be efficient. My amplifier is a 1000W amp but due to the heat sinking it does't make for a very good heater.