pupyluvr wrote:OK, let me see if I understand this correctly.

You Pay for a Tivo so you can Pay Tivo to record Pay Television?

I paid (past tense = Lifetime) for TiVos, so I can watch TV on my terms whenever I want, not live TV with commercials. Each of my TiVos can store 2TB, 317 hours of HD recordings.

A cable DVR is going to cost as much if not more and does not have the storage capability, Plus I can offload recordings to my PC and strip commercials out.

alanhwoot wrote:It's in the description, but be sure to note that these are cable TV only. They won't record over-the-air from an antenna.

Your "facts" cost me a quality post. It's gone forever now and you will have to carry around that "fact" for the rest of your life.

...I have revised my post.

I just switched over to TIVO with my cable provider form a Scientific Atlanta HDTV DVR... IT blows DVR out of the water! The picture quality is even better!

I would be in for this if I did not need to deal with the Multistream card. My living situation has basic cable (by default, by reason of having high speed internet from Comcast), but the house owner does not pay for the basic cable. In our area Comcast just assumes that all their customers have expanded cable packages, so they do not scramble the basic cable signal. Here are some Comcast issues and links to have handy: http://blogs.webguild.com/archive/2010/04/21/my-attempts-to-get-a-multistream-cablecard-from-comcast-for.aspx

sucker4crap wrote:I would be in for this if I did not need to deal with the Multistream card. My living situation has basic cable (by default, by reason of having high speed internet from Comcast), but the house owner does not pay for the basic cable. In our area Comcast just assumes that all their customers have expanded cable packages, so they do not scramble the basic cable signal. Here are some Comcast issues and links to have handy: http://blogs.webguild.com/archive/2010/04/21/my-attempts-to-get-a-multistream-cablecard-from-comcast-for.aspx

Cable Cos are required to provide Multi-Stream CableCARDS by FCC Regulations. M-Cards are the Standard now.

FCC: Enforcment Advisory to Cable Cos
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-1373A1.pdf

FCC: CableCARD: Know Your Rights
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights

Comcast now even offers XFinity OnDemand on the TiVo Premieres in markets were Motorola CableCARDS are provided. (Not yet available in SA/Cisco markets)
http://www3.tivo.com/products/tivo-walkthrough/tv-source/cable/tivo-comcast/index.html

bryaninphx wrote:Cable Cos are required to provide Multi-Stream CableCARDS by FCC Regulations. M-Cards are the Standard now.

FCC: Enforcment Advisory to Cable Cos
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-11-1373A1.pdf

Good info, but when you are not paying for cable, I doubt that they are required to provide the card. In my case, the subscriber is paying for internet, but NOT cable - although cable is not blocked, so, judging by the link I posted, Comcast would need to come out and install the card - yes, for free, but the chances that they would provide the card, without subscribing to Comcast Cable TV, seems doubtful ; ]

FCC: CableCARD: Know Your Rights
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights

Comcast now even offers XFinity OnDemand on the TiVo Premieres in markets were Motorola CableCARDS are provided. (Not yet available in SA/Cisco markets)
http://www3.tivo.com/products/tivo-walkthrough/tv-source/cable/tivo-comcast/index.html

sucker4crap wrote:Good info, but when you are not paying for cable, I doubt that they are required to provide the card. In my case, the subscriber is paying for internet, but NOT cable - although cable is not blocked, so, judging by the link I posted, Comcast would need to come out and install the card - yes, for free, but the chances that they would provide the card, without subscribing to Comcast Cable TV, seems doubtful ; ]

The theft of cable television signals may be active or passive. Passive theft occurs when a user discovers he has cable service and uses it without opening an account with the provider.

Federal Law

U.S. Statute 47 U.S.C. 553 prohibits the interception or assistance in intercepting any communications services provided by a television cable system without specific authorization from the cable operator.

Penalties for intentional violations are up to $1,000 in fines and imprisonment for up to six months. If the violator is unaware that his actions are illegal, the fine may be reduced to $100 plus damages. For those engaging in theft for personal financial gain or commercial advantage, the penalties are increased to as much as $50,000 and imprisonment for up to two years for the first offense, and up to $100,000 and five years for repeated violations. The court also may also issue injunctions to prevent continued abuse.

The federal law specifically states that the statute does not limit the scope of state and local laws.

Tivo addict here. For those lamenting the monthly fee, note:

1) It's only $399 for product lifetime if the machine is associated with an existing subscriber--you can have it set up at mom's then inherit it, for example.

2) Even at the full 500 rate, the monthly cost comes out to less than $7/month assuming it lasts a 6 years (I've got 2 still going strong for nearly a decade) --so that's better than (mere audio) XM subscription rate, and

3) the machines themselves are far less costly and more powerful than they were 8 years ago, making it an even better deal than ever.

bryaninphx wrote:The theft of cable television signals may be active or passive. Passive theft occurs when a user discovers he has cable service and uses it without opening an account with the provider.

Federal Law

U.S. Statute 47 U.S.C. 553 prohibits the interception or assistance in intercepting any communications services provided by a television cable system without specific authorization from the cable operator.

Penalties for intentional violations are up to $1,000 in fines and imprisonment for up to six months. If the violator is unaware that his actions are illegal, the fine may be reduced to $100 plus damages. For those engaging in theft for personal financial gain or commercial advantage, the penalties are increased to as much as $50,000 and imprisonment for up to two years for the first offense, and up to $100,000 and five years for repeated violations. The court also may also issue injunctions to prevent continued abuse.

The federal law specifically states that the statute does not limit the scope of state and local laws.

Thanks Danno. BTW, the owner DOES subscribe to Comcast High Speed Internet, so it may be that they just add it on with internet... it's not my house or my subscription, but I promise to close one eye while watching C-Span, just for you. As I said, I will pass on this device.

Awesome moneymaking service idea. To pay for video recording or timeshifting on the top of already paid service.

Everywhere else in the world it is free and people pay only for cable service. And buy subscription free recorders or sat tuners.

Not here. Enjoy paying for tvguide service that meant to be free. Everyone can do it. Its a free country.

lwang wrote:from my fios tv, HD box is $10, HD DVR is $16 and cable card is $6. So getting a cable card with HD capability would be $16, same as the DVR, plus who knows if it will work.

Can I just buy this box and not pay for a EPG, instead I would go and program the channel and time to perform OTA or cable recordings?

A TiVo subscription is required to use any of the features, including manual recording without EPG. Without a subscription, it's a brick. Also, the Premiere is unable to record over the air.

I greatly prefer a Home Theater PC setup to a TiVo. Using the SiliconDust tuner, you can record 3 or 6 channels at a time, and watch on your PC, as well as any other PCs or XBoxes in the house. Plus there's no monthly fees, aside from the CableCard.

I was a loyal Tivo user for years, but they haven't kept up with the changing market.

The Premiere is more than just an EPG. It has extensive search and filtering. It learns your programming habits and offers suggestions for shows you'd like. It plays media from services like Hulu Plus, Netflix, YouTube, AOL, Pandora, Live365, Amazon Instant Video, Blockbuster, Rhapsody, and your computer. It gets selected video content from the Internet, and you can specify podcasts to record. It plays some games and applications that come standard, as well as homebrew applications. It can share content and applications with other users' TiVos over the Internet. Comcast users can access On Demand programming in some markets, and eventually all of them. It can transfer programs to your computer and back.

Meanwhile, the cable companies' DVRs are basically EPGs, without all the TiVo's extra features.

hasopt wrote:Where I live, Verizon charges over $20 per month for the DVR. I WISH it was $4!

Comcast gives you one free with HD programming and I have a 2nd for $15 a month.

alanhwoot wrote:It's in the description, but be sure to note that these are cable TV only. They won't record over-the-air from an antenna. And you will need a CableCard from your cable provider.

This is not true.
I have used this model for several years now, and only use it to record over the air. You do require a network connection to do it, but it works well.

I stand corrected. These really are digital cable only. (Sad Face)

CrashCamomilli wrote:This is not true.
I have used this model for several years now, and only use it to record over the air. You do require a network connection to do it, but it works well.

Don't confuse the Premiere with TiVo HD. The later will record off the air, but not the Premiere.

How do you record video podcasts?

Coyoty wrote:The Premiere is more than just an EPG. It has extensive search and filtering. It learns your programming habits and offers suggestions for shows you'd like. It plays media from services like Hulu Plus, Netflix, YouTube, AOL, Pandora, Live365, Amazon Instant Video, Blockbuster, Rhapsody, and your computer. It gets selected video content from the Internet, and you can specify podcasts to record. It plays some games and applications that come standard, as well as homebrew applications. It can share content and applications with other users' TiVos over the Internet. Comcast users can access On Demand programming in some markets, and eventually all of them. It can transfer programs to your computer and back.

Meanwhile, the cable companies' DVRs are basically EPGs, without all the TiVo's extra features.

yayobama wrote:Tivo addict here. For those lamenting the monthly fee, note:

1) It's only $399 for product lifetime if the machine is associated with an existing subscriber--you can have it set up at mom's then inherit it, for example.

So if I understand this, it will cost me $399 to use this tivo as a replacement for my current lifetime subscription? Or - can I purchase this and transfer my lifetime to this unit with no additional fee?

One of many complains about TiVo CS, read carefully before you buy.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=495091

engineire wrote:[quote postid="5328170" user="yayobama"]Tivo addict here. For those lamenting the monthly fee, note:

1) It's only $399 for product lifetime if the machine is associated with an existing subscriber--you can have it set up at mom's then inherit it, for example.

So if I understand this, it will cost me $399 to use this tivo as a replacement for my current lifetime subscription? Or - can I purchase this and transfer my lifetime to this unit with no additional fee?

The lifetime subscription you purchase is tied to the device, it is not transferable.

engineire wrote:[quote postid="5328170" user="yayobama"]Tivo addict here. For those lamenting the monthly fee, note:

1) It's only $399 for product lifetime if the machine is associated with an existing subscriber--you can have it set up at mom's then inherit it, for example.

So if I understand this, it will cost me $399 to use this tivo as a replacement for my current lifetime subscription? Or - can I purchase this and transfer my lifetime to this unit with no additional fee?

No, the "lifetime" fee is for the lifetime of that particular TiVo box. They are, sadly, not transferable to a new box. Personally, I think that they would have significantly more sales if they would allow transfers to a new box for a reduced fee, but I don't see than happening. They are trying to make their business model about the monthly fee, and that would mess it up.

I've had a Tivo of one model or another since 2000.

The one feature I value the most is the Wishlist Search.

I watch a lot of older movies. I have wishlists set up for specific movie titles, directors, actors, and even years of release (as a keyword, which sometimes gives false hits, but mostly works).

With the wishlists I can see what's coming up and, optionally, automatically record it.

(A lot of good movies were made before 1980, and Turner Classic Movies is still the only way to see most of them. TCM and college sports are what keep me from cutting the cable.)

After six months my Premiere is getting a good handle on what I watch and is recording decent suggestions. I go through these and thumb-up or thumb-down what it records so it gets better at suggestions.

I bought a stock Premiere with a 500GB hard drive and upgraded it to a 2TB drive, so it has the same storage as the XL4 (but only two tuners).

The Amazon.com part of Tivo does not (at this point, anyway) support free streaming with a Prime subscription. I have to use my TV or Roku for that. I don't have Hulu Plus or Netflix subscriptions, so I have no idea how they work (if they had older movies I probably would).

I've been very happy with the Premiere.

riocobra wrote:Except that one in new and not refurbished. Not that great of a deal. Especially if you don't use iOS devices. There are still a few of us out there. I know. Crazy, right?

I've owned Tivo's for 8 years and can tell you that a refurb is every bit as good as a brand new one. There is only 1 thing that ever goes bad on a Tivo and that's the hard drive. It's extremely easy to change it out and, if you're like me, you'll change it out for a bigger one before you plug it in the first time. I currently run 2 tivo's now in my entertainment system. Absolutely, positively love them.

In 1998 TiVo re-invented video recorder originally invented over 35 years earlier. For some miraculous reason they have been granted patent for this "invention" in 2001. The key claim that possibly allowed them to have this patent granted was to store recorder audio/audio on the "buffer" instead of tape (like old VCR or Betamax) using MPEG encoding/decoding process which by the way was developed to store audio and video signals in a first place and not really for any other purpose. Granting this patent locked out all other competitors from the video recorder market leaving TiVo as the only monopolist in US market.
The above - so called "389 patent" expires in 2018. It is possible that if the company will go down after that date because of market opening for alternative recorders, so will your $399 box along $400 subscription both may go down to the drain as well. So to all TiVo flock sheep's - grab it before it's gone! LOL ;)

I find the Vuze software incredibly handy for my Tivo (and iPad as well), as it lets you convert virtually any video format into a Tivo format that you can then download from your computer to your Tivo...great for getting the kid's soccer game or a movie you've purchased onto the Tivo so you can watch it without having to hook up anything else to your TV and using the familiar controls.

eskwadrat wrote:One of many complains about TiVo CS, read carefully before you buy.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=495091

That's the funniest anti-TiVo rant I've seen this month (and yes, I read it carefully). Someone messed up, and everything points to the OP.

TiVo CS ain't perfect, but that whiner needs to stow it, and move on.

bryaninphx wrote:Verizon FIOS: phone number for CableCard automated pairing
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=500060

I kid you not, I have that number saved in my phone. All told, it took 17 calls and 17 techs over 4 weeks before one genius finally figured it out. This is after 16 techs had told me (and many many others) that it was an issue they were aware of and that "at this time there is no existing solution." The tivo support community and the support forums at silicondust were invaluable in finally figuring this out.

Let me get this

I pay every month to get f*** tv guide?

seriously?

I bought 3 Premiere's here almost 2 years ago. Paid $50 each (refurbished). These have 2 cable inputs in the back for Digital Cable and Digital Antenna. These do not!

Bought lifetimes service through Tivo, almost at the break even point over Fios with three HD boxes. Love my Tivos.
wish I could convince my wife to abandon The Food Network and HGTV, then I could go straight antenna. I live between Wash DC and Baltimore. Get plenty if over the air digital, just not the ones my wife wants. I'd wait for refurbs.

jguru wrote:Let me get this

I pay every month to get f*** tv guide?

seriously?

Yes. This is basically what you pay for. Amazingly they were able to convince 2.3 million people to contribute monthly to this nationwide monopoly. From business perspective this was very successfull enterprise and they deserve congrats.

bryaninphx wrote:The theft of cable television signals may be active or passive. Passive theft occurs when a user discovers he has cable service and uses it without opening an account with the provider.

Federal Law

U.S. Statute 47 U.S.C. 553 prohibits the interception or assistance in intercepting any communications services provided by a television cable system without specific authorization from the cable operator.

Penalties for intentional violations are up to $1,000 in fines and imprisonment for up to six months. If the violator is unaware that his actions are illegal, the fine may be reduced to $100 plus damages. For those engaging in theft for personal financial gain or commercial advantage, the penalties are increased to as much as $50,000 and imprisonment for up to two years for the first offense, and up to $100,000 and five years for repeated violations. The court also may also issue injunctions to prevent continued abuse.

The federal law specifically states that the statute does not limit the scope of state and local laws.

It was very odd seeing your user name, because I am also a Bryan in Phoenix...

There can be only one.

WilfBrim wrote:No, the "lifetime" fee is for the lifetime of that particular TiVo box. They are, sadly, not transferable to a new box. Personally, I think that they would have significantly more sales if they would allow transfers to a new box for a reduced fee, but I don't see than happening. They are trying to make their business model about the monthly fee, and that would mess it up.

If lifetime is tied to the box, and your box breaks after 3 years, are you just DONE?

I have no idea how this works, but I can only assume there is some sort or warranty replacement process, so I'll go ahead and also ask:

Is it at all possible that your box could be out of warranty and you'd get screwed over by buying a lifetime sub and not having the box last very long?

I bought two Premier XL4's this past holiday season and I'm extremely pleased.

Going from the standard Comcast PVR to a Tivo was like moving from a tricycle to a Ferrari. There just is no comparison. Here are some notes if you are looking to switch:

- Lifetime service is about a 2.5 year ROI
- Your cable company can possibly pay you for using your own equipment, I think I get like $5 a month off of my cable bill
- Regular Comcast customer service has no idea what they are doing, make sure to call the dedicated CableCard people, once you get the right number they can provision your cable card properly
- Comcast lets you watch your OnDemand over the Tivo
- If you want to use MOCA, you cannot use a cable amplifier
- Netflix works but it's not as nice as an experience as the Xbox360, but the experience is comparable to a Roku
- While whole home networking works on these things, sadly the boxes don't talk to each other with the exception of allowing playback and transfers. This means that you'll have to consciously maintain two recording schedules, I basically use one for my stuff and the other for what my wife watches
- The Tivo predictions on what you like (after giving thumps up or recording programs) is scary. After about a month it was recording movies and TV shows that I would watch.
- These things take a long time to setup and power on, plan on about an hour per box
- The integration with their iPhone and iPad app is excellent. I find it easier to manage my programs and recording on the app than on the box itself
- The remote control is fairly "universal" in that it can power on your TV and control the volume of your TV or your AV receiver.
- The integration with the desktop app is pretty sweet. You can transfer programs to your desktop and then stream to your Tivo, this lets you expand your storage very easily

If you are on the fence, go ahead and give this a try.

Also, I'm having a little trouble understanding what exactly you get from WOOT, (and I'm attributing this to the fact that it's 8AM on Monday morning).

Is the $300/$400 price for the box itself and no service? If I were to buy the $300 box, and I am not a current TiVo customer, I would then need to pay $500 for lifetime service (or choose monthly @ $15 a month), correct?

I have a Tivo, but I couldn't get my cable company to give/sell me the cable card needed . . . of course, they suggested I just subscribe to their cable DVR instead. Anyway, I just suggest checking with your cable company first to make sure the cable card IS available for the device.

jguru wrote:Let me get this

I pay every month to get f*** tv guide?

seriously?

You can definitely argue whether Tivo is a good value or not, just like you can argue that getting a $30,00 car is a poor value when a Civic will get you there and back just the same. But Tivo does have features that some people believe are worth paying for, such as:

- It knows if the broadcast time of a show has changed and adjusts accordingly.
- You can have it record everything related to certain search term, like the "gymnastics" example.
- For me, and spouse acceptance, absolutely seamless, never hick-up, never crash operation.

Ten years ago, I would have been too cheap to pay for Tivo. Now, I'm willing to pay for the functionality I like. (I wouldn't pay for monthly, lifetime is the best value).

sucker4crap wrote:I would be in for this if I did not need to deal with the Multistream card. My living situation has basic cable (by default, by reason of having high speed internet from Comcast), but the house owner does not pay for the basic cable. In our area Comcast just assumes that all their customers have expanded cable packages, so they do not scramble the basic cable signal. Here are some Comcast issues and links to have handy: http://blogs.webguild.com/archive/2010/04/21/my-attempts-to-get-a-multistream-cablecard-from-comcast-for.aspx

Disregarding for the moment your "free" basic cable service, I am not sure that you need a cable card.

Correct me if I am wrong but the cable card is only necessary to be able to watch/record encrypted cable channels. Most cable companies send the broadcast TV channels in clear QAM and they encrypt the basic cable channels. Legally in the USA the cable companies could not encrypt the broadcast channels but I believe that the cable companies have recently succeeded in getting that restriction waved.

The description for this model Tivo claims that all digital cable reception requires the cable card but I think it is only necessary for the encrypted channels.

Anyway, you may be able to see unencrypted basic cable channels now but the cable company could encrypt all channels at any moment.

I'll throw this out there, if anyone wants the Tivo box and NOT the Stream, I'd be interested in purchasing the Stream box from you.

sugarpearls wrote:I have a Tivo, but I couldn't get my cable company to give/sell me the cable card needed . . . of course, they suggested I just subscribe to their cable DVR instead. Anyway, I just suggest checking with your cable company first to make sure the cable card IS available for the device.

They are required by law to provide you a CableCard, time to call the FCC.