WootBot


quality posts: 14 Private Messages WootBot

Staff

Poll: What's your favorite amendment in the Bill of Rights?
  • 40.3% - First (right to free speech, assembly, religion) 981
  • 29.8% - Second (right to keep and bear arms) 725
  • 4.6% - Third (no quartering of troops) 112
  • 6% - Fourth (no unreasonable search & seizure) 145
  • 7.7% - Fifth (right to due process, protection from mandatory self-incrimination and double jeopardy) 188
  • 0.7% - Sixth and/or Seventh (right to a speedy trial by jury, with public counsel) 17
  • 1.7% - Eighth (no excessive bail or cruel & unusual punishment) 42
  • 9.1% - Ninth and/or Tenth (powers not granted to the federal gov't belong to States or the people) 222
2432 votes

Well, how do you fare compared to the Zeitgeist? Chat up your fellow wooters and let us know how lame this poll was or what obvious choices we missed. For example: Was this poll a) STUPID, b) DUMB, c) POINTLESS or d) ALL OF THE ABOVE?

ckeilah


quality posts: 149 Private Messages ckeilah

I refuse to answer.

What does it matter? They all get violated anyway. :-/

Please do not increment my Quality Posts count. 69 is a good place to be. ;-)
MOD: We had to...we just HAD TO...

lifebymax


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lifebymax

I've got a set of bear arms hanging in the den! But I killed it with poisoned meat, since guns are unconstitutional...

davemays123


quality posts: 7 Private Messages davemays123

They are all pretty important except maybe the 3rd (don't see that becoming an issue today).

It's too bad the 10th has been basically ignored due to absolutely ridiculous interpretations of the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause by the Supreme Court.

curtisuxor


quality posts: 56 Private Messages curtisuxor

lol at people who actually chose the 2nd. Many more important things up there.

searchneverend


quality posts: 2 Private Messages searchneverend

Curt, #2 is the reason the other are in place. The minute you loose #2 will be the moment all other will too. Our govt is working really hard towards achieving that goal.



SDL69


quality posts: 0 Private Messages SDL69
searchneverend wrote:Curt, #2 is the reason the other are in place. The minute you loose #2 will be the moment all other will too. Our govt is working really hard towards achieving that goal.



Cheers to you, you've got it right!

mncowboy96


quality posts: 1 Private Messages mncowboy96
searchneverend wrote:Curt, #2 is the reason the other are in place. The minute you loose #2 will be the moment all other will too. Our govt is working really hard towards achieving that goal.



This is the correct answer. The Gov should never be able to out power its people. When it does you no longer have freedom.

photobobk


quality posts: 5 Private Messages photobobk

Second. I hate long-sleeved shirts, so I'm more comfortable with bare arms.

jeparz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jeparz
davemays123 wrote:They are all pretty important except maybe the 3rd (don't see that becoming an issue today).



Probably the people who feel they need their assault weapons would take issue with you. If we need weapons, we need the 3rd.

Riddle me this - if I need a test and license to demonstrate I (might) know how to operate a car, why is a license and test not required that demonstrates (possibly) that I know how to fire safely and operate a weapon? ....just say'n
I'd feel better knowing that the people of the militia knew what they were doing.

gmoliver2815


quality posts: 0 Private Messages gmoliver2815
jeparz wrote:Probably the people who feel they need their assault weapons would take issue with you. If we need weapons, we need the 3rd.

Riddle me this - if I need a test and license to demonstrate I (might) know how to operate a car, why is a license and test not required that demonstrates (possibly) that I know how to fire safely and operate a weapon? ....just say'n
I'd feel better knowing that the people of the militia knew what they were doing.


I just received my Concealed Carry License this week that required me to learn the laws of my state and prove I am proficient with a firearm. Most states have the same requirements. BTW... there are still more people killed in car wrecks than gun shot wounds every year. Maybe we should have stricter car control laws.

gelo48


quality posts: 8 Private Messages gelo48

Intelligent voting can and will do more to protect you than any firearm.

Note: this post isn't going to change anyone's mind so don't bother with the 2nd blather. If you think you can protect yourself from the government with anything you can own enjoy your fantasy. Meanwhile the unlimited money in politics just keeps on keeping on.

CooperDaKat


quality posts: 0 Private Messages CooperDaKat
jeparz wrote:Riddle me this - if I need a test and license to demonstrate I (might) know how to operate a car, why is a license and test not required that demonstrates (possibly) that I know how to fire safely and operate a weapon? ....just say'n
I'd feel better knowing that the people of the militia knew what they were doing.




I have had my CCW permit for quite some time, and I had to pass a "live fire" test as well as learning my state laws.

To me, carrying a concealed gun is just a "tool" that I hope I never need to use(considering that the average police response time is 3 to 5 minutes PROVIDED you can call for help). Much in the same way that there are tools, antifreeze, blankets, etcetera in the trunk of my car.

A friend once suggested I empty it all out to help with gas mileage and my response was "It's only about an extra 30 pounds AND it's better to have it and not need it than it is to need it and not have it."


CooperDaKat


quality posts: 0 Private Messages CooperDaKat
gelo48 wrote:Intelligent voting can and will do more to protect you than any firearm.

Note: this post isn't going to change anyone's mind so don't bother with the 2nd blather. If you think you can protect yourself from the government with anything you can own enjoy your fantasy. Meanwhile the unlimited money in politics just keeps on keeping on.




IF there were such a thing as an honest politician then I would agree that voting would/could actually have an impact. Nowadays, my vote is for nothing more than selecting the "lessor of the evils".

As to your "If you think you can protect yourself from the government with anything" statement... the only thing my guns can hopefully protect me from is an immediate threatening of my safety and/or life until the cops can arrive.


ninjapineapples


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ninjapineapples

While it would not be a problem today, I think most of us can agree that the if the third didn't exist and became an issue, it would really, really suck.

philosopherott


quality posts: 3 Private Messages philosopherott
curtisuxor wrote:lol at people who actually chose the 2nd. Many more important things up there.



LOL to you who think that the 2nd doesn't secure the others.

cappomutato


quality posts: 19 Private Messages cappomutato
philosopherott wrote:LOL to you who think that the 2nd doesn't secure the others.



It doesn't. The Constitution is more than the amendments. It is the original document that even makes the amendments possible. The use of the Second has never defended a single right that was infringed upon by a law.

yay taco

tonygriffinus


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tonygriffinus

what about the unwritten one that requires us to pay lifetime pensions to representatives who swear an oath to uphold the law and then order the department of justice not to abide by the law.

philosopherott


quality posts: 3 Private Messages philosopherott
cappomutato wrote:It doesn't. The Constitution is more than the amendments. It is the original document that even makes the amendments possible. The use of the Second has never defended a single right that was infringed upon by a law.



I don't know that that is accurate but if it is; hopefully it never will...

echipman


quality posts: 0 Private Messages echipman
gmoliver2815 wrote:I just received my Concealed Carry License this week that required me to learn the laws of my state and prove I am proficient with a firearm. Most states have the same requirements. BTW... there are still more people killed in car wrecks than gun shot wounds every year. Maybe we should have stricter car control laws.



gmoliver, I was curious about Us mortality of car deaths v gun deaths. You are correct that more people are killed in/by cars, but I was surprised how close the numbers are:

Mortality
All injury deaths
Number of deaths: 180,811
Deaths per 100,000 population: 58.6
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,687
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.9
All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 42,917
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.9
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,672
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3

Source: CDC http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

sunson9


quality posts: 1 Private Messages sunson9

Arn't they ALL vital to Democracy? Demand public funded elections.

psycher1


quality posts: 0 Private Messages psycher1
mncowboy96 wrote:This is the correct answer. The Gov should never be able to out power its people. When it does you no longer have freedom.



Ah yes. Support our troops people. With bullets.
Because that's the most important part of our constitution.

Is essentially what you freaking Tin Mans are saying.

Oh, perhaps you weren't talking about the troops, you were talking about the politicians. In which case, you're still casually admitting to the world your willingness to slaughter based on misinterpreted legal right.

psycher1


quality posts: 0 Private Messages psycher1

Anyway, I Plead the 5th.
Because that was the name of a freaking amazing beer I had. Imperial Stout anybody?

fubar1982


quality posts: 2 Private Messages fubar1982
jeparz wrote:Probably the people who feel they need their assault weapons would take issue with you. If we need weapons, we need the 3rd.

Riddle me this - if I need a test and license to demonstrate I (might) know how to operate a car, why is a license and test not required that demonstrates (possibly) that I know how to fire safely and operate a weapon? ....just say'n
I'd feel better knowing that the people of the militia knew what they were doing.



..."a well regulated militia"... at that. The word "regulated" always seems to be overseen by everyone...

It shouldn't be easier to get a gun than a car.

And for those who aren't quite sure what that means:

reg·u·late [reg-yuh-leyt]
verb (used with object), reg·u·lat·ed, reg·u·lat·ing.
1
a : to govern or direct according to rule
b (1) : to bring under the control of law or constituted authority
(2) : to make regulations for or concerning "regulate the industries of a country"
2
: to bring order, method, or uniformity "to regulate one's habits"
3
: to fix or adjust the time, amount, degree, or rate of "regulate the pressure of a tire"

psycher1


quality posts: 0 Private Messages psycher1
psycher1 wrote:Ah yes. Support our troops people. With bullets.
Because that's the most important part of our constitution.

Is essentially what you freaking Tin Mans are saying.

Oh, perhaps you weren't talking about the troops, you were talking about the politicians. In which case, you're still casually admitting to the world your willingness to slaughter based on misinterpreted legal right.




Also, because I'm opening myself full wide to the internet today (sounded like a grand idea at the time)
I'd like to throw out there that I actually agree with most of you. If only a good deal of you didn't all sound so dumb and falsely patriotic and rambling about 'rights' when you don't give a crap anyway.
Underneath it all, you just like guns. Me too.
If there was a clause added to whatever bill would be going through to add assault rifles (full auto's even) to shooting ranges but ban all such things from personal homes, I think most of you'd be much more positive toward it.
Unless the NRA would hide that detail. Then you'd never know either way. Because they control a lot of you whether you admit it or not.

dekatria


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dekatria
psycher1 wrote:Anyway, I Plead the 5th.
Because that was the name of a freaking amazing beer I had. Imperial Stout anybody?



Wait, wasn't that the Green Flash Black IPA? I remember it being freaking amazing!

philosopherott


quality posts: 3 Private Messages philosopherott
fubar1982 wrote:..."a well regulated militia"... at that. The word "regulated" always seems to be overseen by everyone...

It shouldn't be easier to get a gun than a car.

And for those who aren't quite sure what that means:

reg·u·late [reg-yuh-leyt]
verb (used with object), reg·u·lat·ed, reg·u·lat·ing.
1
a : to govern or direct according to rule
b (1) : to bring under the control of law or constituted authority
(2) : to make regulations for or concerning "regulate the industries of a country"
2
: to bring order, method, or uniformity "to regulate one's habits"
3
: to fix or adjust the time, amount, degree, or rate of "regulate the pressure of a tire"



I don’t understand they are about the same. To drive a car you need a license and to carry a gun concealed you need a license. Even if I am not asking for the right to carry a gun I still need to go through a background check unless purchasing through a private citizen where as a car I don’t need to show a private citizen my DL.
Now that you have defined regulate you can find that firearms are regulated on a state and federal level, and reciprocity is hard to find for a firearms licenses unlike cars.
I am not saying that background checks can’t be better, but what you are saying is a myth; it is still harder to get a gun than a car, unless you are talking economics.
Also, why should it be easier to get a car (which is a privilege in this country) than a firearm (which is a right)?

entropomorphic


quality posts: 0 Private Messages entropomorphic

I chose the fifth amendment because... well I don't exactly have to tell you, do I?

vinceinhouston


quality posts: 0 Private Messages vinceinhouston
echipman wrote:gmoliver, I was curious about Us mortality of car deaths v gun deaths. You are correct that more people are killed in/by cars, but I was surprised how close the numbers are:

Mortality
All injury deaths
Number of deaths: 180,811
Deaths per 100,000 population: 58.6
Motor vehicle traffic deaths
Number of deaths: 33,687
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.9
All poisoning deaths
Number of deaths: 42,917
Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.9
All firearm deaths
Number of deaths: 31,672
Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.3

Source: CDC http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm



If you really want to blow your mind, try and find out how many of those death by guns are committed by people who are legally the owners of the guns.

SumDuud


quality posts: 21 Private Messages SumDuud
philosopherott wrote:I don’t understand they are about the same. To drive a car you need a license and to carry a gun concealed you need a license. Even if I am not asking for the right to carry a gun I still need to go through a background check unless purchasing through a private citizen where as a car I don’t need to show a private citizen my DL.
Now that you have defined regulate you can find that firearms are regulated on a state and federal level, and reciprocity is hard to find for a firearms licenses unlike cars.
I am not saying that background checks can’t be better, but what you are saying is a myth; it is still harder to get a gun than a car, unless you are talking economics.
Also, why should it be easier to get a car (which is a privilege in this country) than a firearm (which is a right)?

I like the point about buying a car from a private citizen, but it also applies to buying a gun. I bought my first 9mm from a friend and there was no background check. Also I live in an open carry state (KY), where there is no license or test to pass to carry my sidearm in a holster openly (even into a city building, government owned building, zoo, or private establishment that allows (WalMart for example). When I did just pick up my new 1911, they did a background check, but I bought it in a store.

Having said that I will argue this, why is all the hub-bub about assault rifles when the majority of firearms related deaths are from handguns? Because it is all theater to make you think the folk's on the hill are actually going to change something. If they really cared about safety, they would look at numbers. Security Theater is HUGE in the US and most of the populace lives with blinders on thinking it makes a difference because those in charge tell them it does. Look at the TSA, one of the biggest violators of our rights. They don't have any real impact beyond a presence. The no-fly list is ineffective - the underwear bomber was on the list, but his name was misspelled by a letter, so he boarded no problem vs the thousands of people that can't fly or have to jump through hoops because they share a name with someone on the list. That is no different than the misdirection being used to make everyone think the world would be safer without "black guns".

I'm not arguing that the 2nd is the most important, as I honestly feel it to be the 1st. Look at revolution overseas and how the tides can be turned by communication and speech. Armed or not, the ability to communicate freely will beat the firepower. The firepower is a more short-term prevention measure and personally I don't think there is an issue with requiring new gun owners, purchasing from a business, needing to demonstrate that they understand basic gun safety (primarily storage and use). The issues generally aren't from the proper owners of the guns and the regulations being proposed don't address the real issues that would have stopped the recent incidents. I personally don't ever plan on using a firearm for home defense, but if I had to I would be able.

Let's see the quality impulse buys!
Wooter to blame for sellout: SumDuud
Sellout time: 8:11:25 AM Central Time

Contrarian by nature.

vinceinhouston


quality posts: 0 Private Messages vinceinhouston
sunson9 wrote:Arn't they ALL vital to Democracy? Demand public funded elections.



Exactly. And they are all in one way or another under attack by our government (in our own best interest of course) Most people don't realize that the amendments are there to protect us from the government. Our founding fathers just escaped an oppressive government and set them up to keep it from happening to the country they were building.

jai151


quality posts: 8 Private Messages jai151

The well regulated militia and the right to bear arms are two separate parts of the second amendment as ruled by the Supreme Court.

workinpoor


quality posts: 15 Private Messages workinpoor
vinceinhouston wrote:If you really want to blow your mind, try and find out how many of those death by guns are committed by people who are legally the owners of the guns.



. . . AND figure out how many of those deaths from autos and/or guns are self-inflicted.

ahunterboy


quality posts: 0 Private Messages ahunterboy

Ok... I am so sick of hearing that oh my god the government is going to take our guns and our freedoms... The people arguing the gun issue are radicals on both ends of the topic... here I am in the middle as a gun owner going this is out of hand... calm down America and lets focus on something else such as how do we get rid of our debt, how do we get jobs for our citizens who are living in poverty, and when are we going to stop giving money to other countries that we don't have. Lets fix the things that are really going to bring an end to out Great country instead of all this gun bickering.

ckeilah


quality posts: 149 Private Messages ckeilah

Maybe stop spending billions of dollars on "security" theater that does nothing but violate the fourth amendment rights of the people. Oh, wait, it also violates the right to assemble and petition your goverment for redress of grievances, because you won't be allowed to pass the CHECKPOINTS now in place which exclude you from every goverment building.
We are ON the slippery slope and too few give a flying damn about it. :-(

Please do not increment my Quality Posts count. 69 is a good place to be. ;-)
MOD: We had to...we just HAD TO...

SumDuud


quality posts: 21 Private Messages SumDuud
ahunterboy wrote:Ok... I am so sick of hearing that oh my god the government is going to take our guns and our freedoms... The people arguing the gun issue are radicals on both ends of the topic... here I am in the middle as a gun owner going this is out of hand... calm down America and lets focus on something else such as how do we get rid of our debt, how do we get jobs for our citizens who are living in poverty, and when are we going to stop giving money to other countries that we don't have. Lets fix the things that are really going to bring an end to out Great country instead of all this gun bickering.

While I agree with you that we need to focus on fixing our own country before telling (and forcing) the rest of the world how to live, it is important for us to protect our rights. I do believe that we shoudl cut off those countries that we send aide to that house our enemies, and probably stop sending aide in the amounts that we do until we can get our own budgets in check. Of course I don't think being in congress or senate should warrant a lifetime salary either, term limits should be brought in, and to bring true balance we need a valid third party in play. Unfortunately so long as the government continues to try to pull the wool over the eyes of its population, those opposed and moderately educated (as opposed to those living with blinders on, believing what they are told) will fight (or scream and post internet babblings) for their rights. I have some very smart well educated friends that say some very stupid things about gun control - usually on the 'take thier guns' level.

Let's see the quality impulse buys!
Wooter to blame for sellout: SumDuud
Sellout time: 8:11:25 AM Central Time

Contrarian by nature.

jai151


quality posts: 8 Private Messages jai151
ahunterboy wrote:Ok... I am so sick of hearing that oh my god the government is going to take our guns and our freedoms... The people arguing the gun issue are radicals on both ends of the topic... here I am in the middle as a gun owner going this is out of hand... calm down America and lets focus on something else such as how do we get rid of our debt, how do we get jobs for our citizens who are living in poverty, and when are we going to stop giving money to other countries that we don't have. Lets fix the things that are really going to bring an end to out Great country instead of all this gun bickering.



The problem is that all of those issues are symptoms of the true problem. The polarization and radicalization of the country as led by a government that no longer cares.

You see, all problems have a solution that is best for the country. Neither party is looking for that solution, however. There is no money to be made from solving problems, then you'd have nothing to crow about and that means no campaign money coming in. So instead they take whatever stance is most likely to fire up their base and keep the money flowing in.

As the loudest positions are the farthest right/left, the politicians increasingly take those stances. And those who lean are forced further and further to one side as the opposite side draws further and further away. While this is going on, districts are being redrawn to put the furthest right and left together. The country continues to polarize as nothing gets done and the money continues to flow in ever greater numbers both from the radicals and to prevent the radicals of the "other side" from coming into power. Lies are told, misinformation is freely spread around, and the RNC/DNC laugh all the way to the bank.

And that is what will destroy our once great country. Not any one individual issue, but the fact that there is more incentive for the parties to puff up their chests and not accomplish a damned thing than for them to do anything worthwhile.

pgrmdave


quality posts: 0 Private Messages pgrmdave

Third amendment, because without it none of the others matter, clearly.

Also because it is, by far, the most unloved amendment.

SumDuud


quality posts: 21 Private Messages SumDuud
jai151 wrote:And that is what will destroy our once great country. Not any one individual issue, but the fact that there is more incentive for the parties to puff up their chests and not accomplish a damned thing than for them to do anything worthwhile.

Destroy it as we know it perhaps, but I think it will bring about change that will come from massive reform of the country and how it is run. I don't see the country being 'destroyed' in a grand sense. I suppose it will depend on which side the final product comes from, as to if one will consider it destroyed. We are still a young country and will need to work out our growing pains.

Let's see the quality impulse buys!
Wooter to blame for sellout: SumDuud
Sellout time: 8:11:25 AM Central Time

Contrarian by nature.

jai151


quality posts: 8 Private Messages jai151
SumDuud wrote:Destroy it as we know it perhaps, but I think it will bring about change that will come from massive reform of the country and how it is run. I don't see the country being 'destroyed' in a grand sense. I suppose it will depend on which side the final product comes from, as to if one will consider it destroyed. We are still a young country and will need to work out our growing pains.



History is littered with the corpses of once great civilizations. To think that ours couldn't just as easily succumb to the same fate is just foolish.