WootBot


quality posts: 15 Private Messages WootBot

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Pioneer

If the original pioneers had had Pioneer audio systems, they may have been in better moods and wouldn't have eaten each other. Makes you think.

jrank608


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jrank608

Limit 3 purchases? I would buy 4 to make a nice set, but.....

sib217


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sib217

Is the Subwoofer wireless?

zordac


quality posts: 0 Private Messages zordac

Anyone confirm if these are sold As Each or in pairs?

t2droll


quality posts: 0 Private Messages t2droll
zordac wrote:Anyone confirm if these are sold As Each or in pairs?



I am not 100% sure but pretty sure these are singles. the reason I know is I have been watching these awhile now. When they come in pairs, they will state it other wise consider everything as singles.

Kaithlin Nguyen

tomd51


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tomd51
zordac wrote:Anyone confirm if these are sold As Each or in pairs?


When it comes to speakers, 99% of the time sellers will accurately specify whether it's a speaker (singular) or pair of speakers (plural).

In this case, Woot specifically states under the 'In the box' section "speaker", indicating it is a single speaker.

dudeleocious


quality posts: 3 Private Messages dudeleocious

I bought two of these from Best Buy a few months back on major clearance, I think they were around the same price, if not a little cheaper. The sound is decent, but I prefer to change my Treble a little higher than most, and even with the minimal setting changes this one offered, I wasn't too excited about it. I gave it to my parents though as they needed a Blu-Ray player, and it will definitely improve sound over the TV speakers.

This is Pioneer's 'Sound Wing' and it is meant to face upward. The sound bar (wing) and the subwoofer are both wired -- which is kind of a pain, but you kinda get what you pay for. In theory it sounds (pun intended) like this would be a great concept for a new kind of sound bar, but it's really not that special. Here's the Pioneer link for some more quick information:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Home-Theater-Systems/HTZ-BD91HW

Overall, I wasn't too excited about it. But if you're looking for a handy little all-in-one with soundbar and Blu-Ray player for not a crazy amount of money, then give it a try.

djshawn


quality posts: 0 Private Messages djshawn

Does anyone have any experience with the HTZ-BD81HF? I can't find a single review online, which is weird. It would be a perfect fit for our bedroom and 50" plasma, but I won't bite if it sounds like crap or won't last.

dsch


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dsch

Is that supposed to say 'pinoeer' on the front page?

CDubbs684


quality posts: 1 Private Messages CDubbs684

To answer the "What size is Legit?" question: Distance to display = 1.5x width of display (THX standard for hi-def}.

If it won't matter when I'm 90, it's no big deal.

Denethor


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Denethor
CDubbs684 wrote:To answer the "What size is Legit?" question: Distance to display = 1.5x width of display (THX standard for hi-def}.



IMHO, "legit" home theater is minimally a 120" projection, with some dim-able lighting hidden behind the crown molding so as not to create glare, and 7.1 surround.

dmeadow


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dmeadow
jrank608 wrote:Limit 3 purchases? I would buy 4 to make a nice set, but.....



Yeah, what genius limited it to three?!! I need four for my ceiling and really wanted these, but I'm not going fishing for a fourth.

daha


quality posts: 3 Private Messages daha

I love spotting all the different ways you find to spell "Pioneer". It's like one of those puzzles they used to run in Highlights for Children magazine.

It used to be a staple in all the doctor offices, but I haven't seen a copy in a long time.

narquespamley


quality posts: 24 Private Messages narquespamley

The ceiling is a bad place to put speakers - really screws up the spatial imaging. The best place for speakers is the ear level of the listeners. So 5 of these in-wall 3-ways would be awesome in a surround setup. Put the center just above the TV.

VetteLT193


quality posts: 6 Private Messages VetteLT193
narquespamley wrote:The ceiling is a bad place to put speakers - really screws up the spatial imaging. The best place for speakers is the ear level of the listeners. So 5 of these in-wall 3-ways would be awesome in a surround setup. Put the center just above the TV.



I've had speakers in my ceiling for about 7 years. They are pretty cheap models with aimable tweaters. I have an older Sony high end amp that pushes them (I want to say it's got 700 or so watts)

A) no one notices the speakers until they are pointed out.
B) no one has complained about the sound. They rock. Tons of bass even and I don't have even have a sub. My Wife jokes about how we were 'under attack again last night' if I watch a good action film.

In short, unless you have some sort of super sensitive ear issue you probably won't notice the sound difference between ceiling, wall, or whatever after initial setup is done.


narquespamley


quality posts: 24 Private Messages narquespamley

The issue isn't how loud the speakers is - it's how good a job they can do imaging the scene of a Dolby Digital movie. The center speaker should be near your TV so that the voices are coming from where the picture is. And if those rear surrounds are above your head, your ears can figure out that everything that's supposed to be happening behind you is actually happening above you. It's not the same, and it doesn't do justice to the source material. Put the speakers where you must for convenience, but acknowledge and accept what you are giving up in terms of the movie watching experience.

VetteLT193 wrote:I've had speakers in my ceiling for about 7 years. They are pretty cheap models with aimable tweaters. I have an older Sony high end amp that pushes them (I want to say it's got 700 or so watts)

A) no one notices the speakers until they are pointed out.
B) no one has complained about the sound. They rock. Tons of bass even and I don't have even have a sub. My Wife jokes about how we were 'under attack again last night' if I watch a good action film.

In short, unless you have some sort of super sensitive ear issue you probably won't notice the sound difference between ceiling, wall, or whatever after initial setup is done.



Hobbsvb


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Hobbsvb

After hours of research & absolutely zero Reviews found online, I'll be the first sucker to by this HTZ-BD91HW. My other option was a Yamaha YHT-494BL plus a Blu-ray. We'll see how the Pioneer does.

lilbordr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages lilbordr

Here is a review for the 8" in wall speaker:
http://www.ecoustics.com/products/pioneer-elite-s-ic871a-s-iw871-lr-in-wall/

Livinonedge


quality posts: 1 Private Messages Livinonedge

These are in fact, *SINGLE* speaker purchases.

If there is ever a question, please read the specifications tab. This item is listed as a speaker (singular).

Not to be rude, I apologize. But a little reading goes a long way.

1 Holiday Crate
8 Screaming Monkeys
2 Bags of Crap
2 Woot-off lights
8 Woot Shirts

oosername


quality posts: 0 Private Messages oosername

There is nothing "wrong" with using in-ceiling speakers for 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound (or in your case 5.0 surround sound), but that is not to say that unless you have "super sensitive ear issue[s]" you could not tell the difference between an in-ceiling system, an in-wall system or a traditional box speaker system. The fact is any person can hear the difference between these, and there are certain configurations that are more preferable to others. I often (as a custom a/v installer) will use in-ceiling speakers for rear and side channels, and if the space allows it, I always use in-wall or box speakers for the front 3 channels because it simply sounds better, every time.

As for "tons of bass even and I don't have a sub," you have no idea how much better your speaker system would sound with a proper subwoofer. There are very few in-ceiling speakers that are capable of producing the frequency range covered by the .1 channel, and I guarantee there is a substantial portion of the low-end frequency range you are missing (from 20Hz up to at least 120Hz) because your in-ceiling speakers simply cannot reproduce those frequencies. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with your setup, but physics simply dictates that in-ceiling speakers (exceptions would be James Loudspeaker 63SA-7s, but even then, they can only do so much without the size and amplification that a subwoofer provides) are not capable of reproducing these frequencies.

Perhaps no one has "complained" about the sound because A) your friends are nice; B) your friends do not care; and/or C) your friends do not know any better. Do yourself a favor: buy a subwoofer, and buy a very nice subwoofer. Expect to spend at least $500. Anything is better than nothing, but a cheap subwoofer will sound sloppy. Sure, you'll hear more bass, and sure, maybe no one will complain, but again, you and your wife will be able to tell the difference between good bass and bad bass. When you start spending tens of thousands of dollars, the difference in quality between Speaker A that costs $5,000 and Speaker B that costs $5,500 starts to diminish significantly, but the difference between $100 and $1000 is easily distinguishable by any layperson.

Also, as far as sound quality is concerned, the amount of amplification is not as important as one might think. A 700-Watt Sony receiver is still a Sony receiver. I would much rather have a 50W/CH NAD Receiver with a toroidal transformer than a 100W/CH Sony Receiver with a digital transformer. The amount of power a receiver has does not determine the quality of sound (it is one factor of course), but rather the quality of that power and how much of that power it can sustain (most amplification measurements for Sony and other manufacturers is peak power over one second rather than sustained power, a measurement referred to as RMS - [R]oot [M]ean [S]quare).

Anyways, the point is there are quality differences that even for reasonable sums of money any person can appreciate these differences, and if you are able to, only use in-ceiling speakers for rear channels, which for movies are used primarily for ambiance and special effects, whereas dialogue and music are projected from the front three channels (especially the center), and as such, should be as close to ear level as possible, and pointed towards you rather than pointed towards the floor. A moveable tweeter is great, but an in-ceiling speaker also includes a woofer that is pointed directly at the ground and not your ears. Personally, the most important speaker is my center channel (where ~70% of the sound in a movie is directed), followed by my subwoofer (which can make a small front speaker sound three times as big), then my front left and right, and finally my rear and side channels. Forget spending money on cables, just use 14 or 12-gauge speaker wire, and buy a decent receiver based on how it sounds and not how much power it has.

No matter what you do, you are the one who is listening to your sound system, and as long as you enjoy it, who cares what I or anyone else thinks. I am only pointing these things out so that you get the most enjoyment out of it!

Oh, and never buy Bose. For the amount of money you spend on a Bose system, you could have a phenomenal surround sound system that would put any Bose system to shame, and you'd have money left over for your house payment.




VetteLT193 wrote:I've had speakers in my ceiling for about 7 years. They are pretty cheap models with aimable tweaters. I have an older Sony high end amp that pushes them (I want to say it's got 700 or so watts)

A) no one notices the speakers until they are pointed out.
B) no one has complained about the sound. They rock. Tons of bass even and I don't have even have a sub. My Wife jokes about how we were 'under attack again last night' if I watch a good action film.

In short, unless you have some sort of super sensitive ear issue you probably won't notice the sound difference between ceiling, wall, or whatever after initial setup is done.



tkolb


quality posts: 0 Private Messages tkolb

Oosername:
Well said
BTW have you actually heard any of these speakers especially the Pioneer S-IW571L 3 way? Just looking for your opinion. My media room is 30'x 17'. Thinking of getting 4 of these 3 ways for fronts and sides and 2 subs and a CC.

oosername


quality posts: 0 Private Messages oosername

No, I have not listened to any current or recent Pioneer in-wall speakers (save for the speakers Pioneer used for its Elite plasma televisions up until 2011), and those were certainly a step above what most television manufacturers used.

As Sound & Vision mentions in its 2009 review, Pioneer did design and sell a high-end speaker system, the TAD Reference line, beginning a few years ago (I never heard them personally), and for me, that tells me some of the R&D that went into those speakers likely trickled down into their mainstream offerings over time (Paradigm, PSB, B&W, Monitor Audio, and others would migrate the tech developed in their top-end products into their lesser products within a couple years of the new tech having been developed).

Certainly I prefer a 3-Way speaker whenever possible, and I do like a concentric design (a tweeter recessed in the center of a mid or mid/bass driver) as well as dual woofers considering architectural speakers struggle with lower frequencies (largely because they have no enclosure, but that can be remedied).

Sound & Vision gave a modestly favorable review to these speakers when Pioneer sold them for $5-700/each, so at $129.00, the value versus price appears pretty good. I cannot think of a 3-Way in-wall speaker with dual 5.25" woofers that could be purchased for $258/pair from a known manufacturer. The only comparable speaker in this price range that I can think of would be the NHT IW2, and the design is certainly less aesthetically pleasing than the Pioneer (the IW2 has also been discontinued, but it was my go-to $300/pair speaker, primarily for music rather than movies, and features a 3-Way design with a 6.5" woofer, a (2) 1.5" mids and (1) .75" tweeter). Again, the NHT was a better musical speaker than a surround sound speaker, so not exactly apples to apples here.

That all said, Pioneer is known first and foremost for its displays (even their Sharp-made Elite LED LCD is a phenomenal television), and second for its Audio/Video receivers. Speakers, not so much. I think these speakers would sound good, I think the price is reasonable, and I think that as long as you do not expect to ever resell these speakers (used architectural speakers are difficult to resell regardless of circumstance), then most anyone would be happy with the purchase of these.

When I am looking at purchasing any product, whether a couch or in this case, speakers, I try to purchase speakers from a company whose primary focus is speakers, just as I purchase a digital camera from a company who is known for manufacturing cameras. Sure, Samsung makes a digital camera, but both Canon and Nikon have more experience and generally make a better camera dollar for dollar than Samsung does. Same thing with Pioneer. Pioneer makes one of the best displays (and used to make the best display up until the very last Elite plasma) of any mainstream manufacturer (I am not including Runco of course), and they make a pretty darn good audio/video receiver as well (I have been very disappointed with their Blu-Ray players lately however). As for speakers, they make them, just like Samsung makes cameras, and neither is a bad product, but that is not Pioneer or Samsung's strongest suit. The attraction here is, for $129, are you getting the performance of a $700 speaker as Woot implies? Probably not, but for $129, I don't think you'll find anything else that performs as well as these speakers will for the same amount or even 50% more.

My only other caveat (after I typed everything before and after this paragraph) is the size of your room. 30' x 17'? These are a little on the small side given the cubic air volume in your media room, and so I strongly recommend building an enclosure inside the wall where these speakers will be mounted. You do not need to rip apart the wall or even cut out more drywall than you already need for mounting these speakers, but using drywall screws and some ingenuity, you can build an enclosure in the wall around these speakers (easier to do in a ceiling, I know, but entirely possible in a wall).

When installing an in-wall (or in-ceiling speaker) if it is possible to block off part of the wall (using 2x4s or 2x6s depending on depth of the wall/ceiling) and line the "enclosure" with a layer of foam in order to create a cabinet, it will result in a better low-end response from any architectural speaker. As for the volume of the enclosure, I cannot say what dimensions would work best for these speakers, but any enclosure is better than relying on existing home insulation and layout of the stud bay.
For the center, if possible, shop at a local A/V store where you can demo different brands of center channel speakers in your home to see which one sonically matches these Pioneer in-walls. When I managed a local independent for 6+ years, I would allow my clients to take home any of my floor model speakers (with a deposit that covered the full retail cost of the speaker of course) for several days at a time to listen in their own home. I would listen to an acoustic/vocal recording using a "5-Channel Stereo" listening mode on your receiver (amplifies a 2-Channel source through all 5 of your speakers), which will be the easiest way to hear how well a different manufacturer matches these Pioneer in-walls.

For a subwoofer, wattage does make a difference in how well the amplifier can control the actual driver, and the more power, the better the control. Personally, unless I am spending thousands of dollars (of my client's money), my preference is a single 10-12" driver with 3-500 watts of amplification in a front-firing sealed enclosure (ported enclosures result in more sound but less accuracy than a sealed enclosure and downward firing drivers are less desirable, especially in carpeted rooms). Although I have not listened to very many SVS subs (I actually became a dealer of SVS several years ago but only so that I could ship them to Hong Kong; didn't make as much money as I hoped at the time), they are very highly regarded and reasonably priced. The SB-1000 is a sealed 12" 300-Watt sub for $500 that performs quite well, although again, I'd prefer a little more amplification for a 12" driver.

If you have the money, especially given your room size, it is actually preferable to use two subwoofers given that most rooms, depending on size and configuration, have "dead zones" throughout the room in which the low frequencies are unable to resonate. Although I recently installed a James Loudspeaker 1000PT-M 10" Passive Subwoofer underneath a client's family room piped into a HVAC vent in the floor, and paired with a James 1000-Watt sub amp, this thing crushed the entire room with a phenomenal low end and no discernible dead zones, which surprised the heck out of me and left my clients eager to show off their system to anyone who would listen. However, that was $3,000 plus install costs. :-( But it was certainly worth every penny (both Lebron James and Dwayne Wade use James Loudspeaker in-ground subwoofers for their outdoor speaker systems, with Wade opting for 21" drivers).

I am also impressed by Paradigm and PSB, both of which in addition to making great speakers, have separate yet related audio component companies (Anthem for Paradigm and NAD for PSB). The newish Anthem receivers by the way (starting at $999) are phenomenal products that sound incredible for the amount of money (partly due to their toroidal transformers), but also because the Canadians make great audio gear. Back to my philosophy of buying speakers from a speaker company, you not only have a company proficient at manufacturing drivers, you also have a sister company proficient at manufacturing the amplifier for those drivers. The result is a great product for the money, and if you can find a dealer (or online seller breaking its dealer agreement) willing to discount a Paradigm or PSB product, then they are certainly worth taking a look at.

Another long, drawn out explanation, but I am playing the role of a caretaker for a dear friend who shattered his femur after plummeting off a client's arbor (the wood had extensive dry-rot that the client had covered with paint and failed to disclose to my friend that this was the case), and thus I have plenty of time as I help him transition on his first day out of the rehabilitation hospital.

Enjoy setting up your media room and I'm curious to know how it all turns out!

tkolb wrote:Oosername:
Well said
BTW have you actually heard any of these speakers especially the Pioneer S-IW571L 3 way? Just looking for your opinion. My media room is 30'x 17'. Thinking of getting 4 of these 3 ways for fronts and sides and 2 subs and a CC.



jdaddieo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jdaddieo

I plan on using the 3I bought for my LCR's in a 7.2 system. I needed in-walls because of my theater layout but they will go behind a 112" dia. Seymour acoustically transparent screen. I plan to fabricate 4.5" deep on-wall boxes and mount them all vertically. Center's are 8" 2-way in-ceiling Yamaha's and rear's are 8" 3-way in-wall Yamaha's. Finished up with 2 10" Polk sub's. My theater is 14" X 16" and is powered by a Yamaha RX-V773 HTR. Can't wait to get these installed and tuned to enjoy The Avengers 3D with my Pany PT-Ae8000!