WootBot


quality posts: 14 Private Messages WootBot

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“Oh, my Luve’s like a red, red, rose / That’s newly sprung in June,” wrote Robert Burns, and while it’s always sad when a poet doesn’t know how to spell an easy word like “love,” it’s undeniably true that June is the most romantic month of the year. To this day, it’s the most popular month for Americans to get married, just ahead of August and May. We’ve asked Ken Jennings, the famous Jeopardy! champion and relationship guru, to puncture four matrimonial myths that have stuck around for years, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health. If you’re not ready to have all your marital misconceptions shattered, speak now or forever hold your peace.

The Debunker: Can Catholic Priests Be Married?

Last month, Pope Francis said for the first time that he might consider ending priestly celibacy. “The door is always open,” he told surprised reporters. “It is not a dogma of faith.” It’s true enough that, according to the Bible, many of the early apostles were married (Peter has a mother-in-law in Matthew chapter 8) and many priests were married over a period of a thousand years before the practice was finally banned by the First Lateran Council in 1123.

amen

So it’s been almost a thousand years since Roman Catholic priests were allowed to marry. Other denominations in full communion with Rome, like Ukrainian and Maronite Catholics, have married priests. But apart from these “Eastern rite” churches, priestly celibacy is the rule. It’s not widely known that there are also hundreds of married Latin rite priests worldwide. Where did they come from?

Through a loophole. After World War II, Pope Pius XII allowed several married Lutheran clergymen to continue to serve as priests after converting to Catholicism. Presbyterian and Methodist clergy have made the switch under a similar exemption. Finally, in 1980, the door was opened to Anglican and Episcopal priests, and today there are at least 80 married Catholic priests in America. At the moment, these married priests aren’t usually allowed to be pastors of parishes—but who knows, that could change. “The door is always open,” as Pope Francis has said.

Quick Quiz: In 1523, who struck a blow against priestly celibacy by marrying Katharina von Bora, a nun whom he had smuggled out of her convent in a barrel of herring?

Ken Jennings is the author of six books, most recently his Junior Genius Guides, Because I Said So!, and Maphead. He's also the proud owner of an underwhelming Bag o' Crap. Follow him at ken-jennings.com or on Twitter as @KenJennings.

whatsamattaU


quality posts: 1069 Private Messages whatsamattaU

Sounds a bit fishy (actually smells a bit fishy) to me,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_von_Bora
and if wikipedia is correct, it was among the barrels, not in them(?),...
or maybe under them:
http://helios.augustana.edu/~ew/des/illustrated-articles/su53.html
but the groom wasn't planning to be married. He, after all, had his fascination with the number 95 before that.

wabwab


quality posts: 0 Private Messages wabwab

You cover who and when and what but I'm disappointed you didn't talk about the much more interesting giant land-grab behind why the Catholic church decided priests should be celibate. It's also interesting to look at how abruptly and brutally the new policy was first put into practice.

Milie001


quality posts: 0 Private Messages Milie001

they should be marry. Katherina Von Bora was the wife of Martin Lutheran he was a priest whom believe they should be allow to marry so he left the church to form his own, I think that's how the story goes.

radi0j0hn


quality posts: 96 Private Messages radi0j0hn

Right! Currently, Episcopalian priests who are married can become converts and can be ordained Catholic Priests.

There can also be widowed, etc., women who become "Religious" (nuns, sisters) who have children.

It's quite a complicated world of monks, friars, consecrated virgins in the world, hermits and more!

Never thought I would be working side-by-side with all these folks!
Wanna hear part of what I do for a living?

www.dioceseoflacrosse.com/connecting

acpress.com Not cute, but useful.

FirstCavWife


quality posts: 1 Private Messages FirstCavWife

One of our priests is married with 5 children. He was recently sent to another post and deployed to Afghanistan.
He was a Lutheran Minister and converted to Catholicism. Since Catholics frown on divorce, they let him keep his wife and kids. ;-)

mayvilmj193


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mayvilmj193

I think that if Catholic priests had the chance to be married you would not have had all the scandals involving altar boys...It makes sense to me that they should have that option.

radi0j0hn


quality posts: 96 Private Messages radi0j0hn
FirstCavWife wrote:One of our priests is married with 5 children. He was recently sent to another post and deployed to Afghanistan.
He was a Lutheran Minister and converted to Catholicism. Since Catholics frown on divorce, they let him keep his wife and kids. ;-)



Your info is about 300 years aout of date! They currently don't "frown" on divorce. They are saddened by it, but there are ample reasons to accept a divorce and remain in good standing with the beliefs of that religion.

Lutherans and Catholics have buried the hatchet in quite a few ways in the past 10 years!

acpress.com Not cute, but useful.

FirstCavWife


quality posts: 1 Private Messages FirstCavWife
radi0j0hn wrote:Your info is about 300 years aout of date! They currently don't "frown" on divorce. They are saddened by it, but there are ample reasons to accept a divorce and remain in good standing with the beliefs of that religion.

Lutherans and Catholics have buried the hatchet in quite a few ways in the past 10 years!



I was trying to say it in a humorous way. ;-)
-A Divorced and Remarried, Devout and Practicing Roman Catholic

marowniom


quality posts: 0 Private Messages marowniom

Why not??? If they love each-other why shouldn't two priests get married?

(I love that joke)

Do you believe the Bible over the Pope? Is there white smoke or just blowing smoke?

Read the Bible -- it will make you wise unto salvation through faith in Christ.

robertjgarza


quality posts: 0 Private Messages robertjgarza

There is nothing in the Bible or in Catholic Dogma that says that Priests can not be married.

It is a long standing requirement (or Church tradition that became a requirement) that Priests can not be married because of St. Paul.

St. Paul was the most prolific evangelizer in the Bible - much of the New Testament are his letters to the faithful. The letters he wrote, the miles he walked, the territory he covered was nearly as much as the other apostles combined.

The Church felt that his ability to evangelize so far and so wide was because he was not married. Being single (and I guess celibate) meant his life was dedicated to the Church. In essence, he was "married" to the Church and not to a woman. He cared for the Church and the faithful as a spouse would.

In fact, in the Catholic Church, if you become a Deacon and you are unmarried - you have just agreed to a life a celibacy and will continue the path to Priesthood. If you are married, then you can not become a priest unless your wife passes away. Many Deacon's wives say that their husband might as well be priests because they are busy with Church activities nearly every night.

Each Arch-Bishop, decides the requirements for a seminarian to become a priest. Deacons have the same seminarian education but have not taken the final step toward Holy Orders to become a priest. I'm sure if the Catholic Church allows married priests then there will be thousands of Deacons that will take their final step towards Priesthood.

The same holds true for nuns. They are considered Brides of Christ or Married to the Church.

....just my 2 cents.

Just woot me now.....woot me hard!!!

radi0j0hn


quality posts: 96 Private Messages radi0j0hn
FirstCavWife wrote:I was trying to say it in a humorous way. ;-)
-A Divorced and Remarried, Devout and Practicing Roman Catholic



Happy to find humor!

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CyborgBill


quality posts: 1 Private Messages CyborgBill

Pope Gregory VII was the one who finally made Priestly celibacy mandatory. Prior to his Papacy, celibacy was considered to be superior to being married but was not required. It was the awful state of affairs in the Italian Priesthood that stimulated Pope Gregory to make celibacy mandatory. Not only were many Italian priests married but they also had mistresses - sometimes multiple mistresses. Gregory - who, himself, had no problem with being celibate - had been a Papal Legate (troubleshooter with the full authority of the Holy See behind him) before being elevated to the Papacy. Oddly enough, he was only a sub-Deacon at the time he was elected Pope - an office he never sought. The poor man was so overwhelmed by being elected Pope he had to take to his bed to recover from the shock. In very short order he was elevated to full Deacon and then Priest (Pastor) following which he was invested as Pope.

Pope Gregory laid the foundation for modern Canon Law along with the basis for the Pope being a virtual world Emperor - something Innocent III very nearly WAS.

Interesting note: In the new Testament, specifically the writings of St Paul, The office which would later evolve into priests had being married as an absolute requirement. Both Deacons and Bishops (overseers in the original Greek)/Pastors (shepherds)/Elders (Presbyters) (which seems to be the same office since St Luke uses the terms interchangeably in the Book of Acts) were required to be married. It was only much later, as a strain of asceticism in the early Church grew, that celibacy began to be the preferred state for Church leaders. Please note that I am not in any wise passing judgement upon Catholic doctrine, merely observing what anyone who studies early Church history will discover.

I agree with the comment(s) about there not being the problems we have seen recently with pederasty had Priests been allowed to marry.

dhillinmkewi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages dhillinmkewi
Milie001 wrote:they should be marry. Katherina Von Bora was the wife of Martin Lutheran he was a priest whom believe they should be allow to marry so he left the church to form his own, I think that's how the story goes.



Of course you mean Martin Luther, who was a catholic priest, himself. Followers of Luther are called Lutherans.

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mharr


quality posts: 0 Private Messages mharr

I believe that there are also married priests that became priests after years as a parish deacon. I remember reading an article on that situation, where these men were Roman Catholic all along (not converts), had wives and families, and a long period of time as deacon. With the shortage of priests, these men are very valuable to maintaining parishes.

urbsnspices


quality posts: 7 Private Messages urbsnspices
mayvilmj193 wrote:I think that if Catholic priests had the chance to be married you would not have had all the scandals involving altar boys...It makes sense to me that they should have that option.



Soooo marriage cures pedophilia? Sounds legit.

Lets take on bestiality, next. What if a gay guy could become a Rabbi, with that end that?

cham2526


quality posts: 0 Private Messages cham2526

Not first time churches have put tradition over bible teaching. God's purpose has always been for men and women to marry if they so choose. They can remain single if they choose. To forbid something God clearly approves can contribute to problems such as molestation, fornication, addiction to pornography, and so on.

erick99


quality posts: 21 Private Messages erick99

I've been a Catholic my whole life (56 years) and am fairly conservative. While I understand the historical foundation for celibate priests I think it is time to allow priests to marry if, for no other reason, because we have quite a shortage of priests. I don't think it would have much effect on the number of priests who abuse others sexually. I think priests should undergo thorough psychological testing (I happen to be a psyc professor) and I think that they should be monitored closely. It is not an easy life as they work very long hours and most make very little in the way of money. I think we would get some really great priests if we allowed them to marry as many men that would love to be priests do not want to give up marriage and children. It is not an easy debate and any change will be difficult for many. But, it is time for change. A lot has changed in 2,000+ years and I imagine a lot of that change was difficult as well.

Erick R Williams
Only worry about the present. The past is over and the future will be the present soon enough

PocketBrain


quality posts: 46 Private Messages PocketBrain
urbsnspices wrote:Soooo marriage cures pedophilia? Sounds legit.

Lets take on bestiality, next. What if a gay guy could become a Rabbi, with that end that?

I think the idea is, if priests were permitted to marry, their ranks would swell with "normal" people, washing out pedophilia to a level on par with the general population.

ertolsma


quality posts: 13 Private Messages ertolsma
marowniom wrote:
Read the Bible -- it will make you wise unto salvation through faith in Christ.



“Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” - Isaac Asimov

sistercc


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sistercc

Catholic church does not allow birth control. Church likes lots of kids! If priests marry and have lots of kids then church has to support said children. Not going to happen.