daveinwarshington


quality posts: 82 Private Messages daveinwarshington

Not everyone nominated wins.
The Nobel Peace Prize has pretty lost all meaning (except for the million $$$).
I really don't care what bozo they give it to anymore.

deadeye37


quality posts: 5 Private Messages deadeye37

I think Woot is trying to hit their 600 comment goal without saying they're going for the 600 comment goal.

london1649


quality posts: 0 Private Messages london1649

It seems that the Nobel is handed out like a prize in Cracker Jacks! Obama is a good example!

cabaretsinger


quality posts: 14 Private Messages cabaretsinger
DrHardcrab wrote:Plenty of people think he should be shot and plenty of people think he should have his face carved on Mt. Rushmore. But come on people. The Nobel Peace Prize? Why not throw in a Grammy and an Oscar too?


If a president that, at the time, had done nothing to deserve it but won it anyway, then it's a fixed process and doesn't count for crap.

cabaretsinger


quality posts: 14 Private Messages cabaretsinger

I really don't give a rat's a$$ how many think Snowden is a traitor. I believe he was being true to himself. He had to take it to the UK because none of our controlled media would have printed the story. I suppose those people would rather not know they are being spied on. I, for one, am glad that it's all somewhat out in the open but I'm quite certain that what we have seen is only the tip if the iceberg, just a glimpse into some very troubling activities by out of control agencies led by an out of control government.

sanchogrubb


quality posts: 0 Private Messages sanchogrubb

I understand his motives, but he indiscriminately exposed much more than the overreach by the NSA against private citizens. And that becomes treasonous.

radi0j0hn


quality posts: 130 Private Messages radi0j0hn

Being NOMINATED is not important.
WINNING would be another thing.

Having spent three years handling Top Secret info at the Pentagon (things like the coordinates of the next day's Arclight strikes in Vietnam, etc.) I find the ideal of divulging classified info repugnant.
But I also find the excesses of the NSA repugnant...so....????

sillycatvalley.com
Like Lake Wobegon, but without the lake.

zekecatz


quality posts: 207 Private Messages zekecatz
deadeye37 wrote:I think Woot is trying to hit their 600 comment goal without saying they're going for the 600 comment goal.



Is there a prize for that too?

But seriously, did all of you not know that our government is in the business of spying? Really? You think espionage was invented just last year? If terrorists are planning an attack on American soil, should we be allowed to monitor their communications and try to protect ourselves? (And how loudly will people scream if we don't intercept them?) Do you think that Snowden's revelations will cause all government surveillance to shut down? Are we all going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya? You really think that will happen? Did you feel safer when Julian Assange and Wikileaks published secret documents? And should Assange have nominated for the Peace Prize?

Privacy is disappearing. You contribute to that yourselves. Has anyone ever posted something embarrassing about you on FB or Twitter? Was that OK with you? If an employee thinks that your competitor should know all about your business practices do you give him a promotion?

Life in the wild is all about competition; we aren't much different except that we have the power to destroy ourselves as well as our enemy. Is secrecy good - maybe not; is secrecy necessary - probably, at least until we learn how to live together. Isn't it time we grew up?

itoaseik


quality posts: 2 Private Messages itoaseik
robertwooddellweaver wrote:(from an article on the web two years ago, pre-Snowden)

Every employee takes an oath or affirmation, required by Article VI of the U.S. Constitution to “support the Constitution.” Since 1884, employees have taken this expanded version of the oath, described in the U.S. Code (Title 5, Chapter 33).

I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.

[...]

Sometimes, classified information contains evidence of waste, fraud or corruption, documents abuses of human rights, or it exposes negligent handling of national security. In such cases, classifying the information was illegal. Executive Order 13526 forbids classifying information to hide violations of law, inefficiency, or administrative error or to avoid embarrassing officials.

An employee who encounters classified evidence of wrongdoing therefore is compelled to ask, “Which of the applicable laws has priority?” Agencies provide little or no guidance to employees for dealing with the moral hazard dumped in their laps. Think of it as a ticking black box with protruding wires in several colors. Does one pull the blue wire, the yellow or the red? Pull the wrong one and your career explodes.



Excellent post.

To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Snowden doesn't need a Nobel prize, though, he needs and deserves a pardon.

cappo


quality posts: 38 Private Messages cappo
soren216 wrote:Sharing your native countries secrets makes you a hero? I don't care how many people think he is a hero, but the truth is he is a domestic terrorist. He spread our secrets to anybody who would listen, and even if it's outdated information it is still valuable. He should be prime target for an all out manhunt not a Nobel prize!



He spread the secrets of the people spying on your secrets.

Secretception!

In reality, nothing I've seen that's cited him as the source so far is anything I didn't already know from previous sources and reports, so you know other countries' governments knew long ago. All he really did was make the general population aware of what was going on.


jspma1988


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jspma1988
division42 wrote:The NSA's spying on its own citizens is tantamount to a police state.



No it is not, not anywhere close. Intercepting and analyzing digital signals that fly around all over the place does not equal spying. If you're fine with thinking that people who intend to harm nations and groups of people communicate using Cold War era communications equipment, then fine, but communications has changed so much that this type of analysis is completely warranted for the interest of national and global security. After all, what use does ECHELON have if we're not using it for SIGINT?

jlc40


quality posts: 7 Private Messages jlc40
SumDuud wrote:
I too have a government clearance and maybe it isn't high enough level, but I never took any oath. The military take an oath, I work around those guys, as a contractor (what Snowden was) I did not.



Maybe not out loud? But at the very least you signed a non-disclosure agreement to protect classified information applicable not just throughout your stint with the govt/company but over the duration of your lifetime.

wmcwik


quality posts: 1 Private Messages wmcwik

if he revealed information about China spying on US citizens he would be a hero, but because he released information about the US government spying on its own citizens, he is a traitor?

jlc40


quality posts: 7 Private Messages jlc40

My opinion of Snowden might be a bit different if he hadn't taken a bunch of our classified information to Russia with him "just in case." If he actually wanted to come back, his story is public enough at this point that any "accident" that might befall him upon his return to the states would be highly scrutinized.

In any case, I think between compromising our intelligence-gathering activities and the strain he's placed on our relationships with other countries, whether or not you agree with what he did, you would have to agree that a Nobel *Peace* Prize is rather out of order.

jspma1988


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jspma1988
wmcwik wrote:if he revealed information about China spying on US citizens he would be a hero, but because he released information about the US government spying on its own citizens, he is a traitor?



Data analysis isn't spying per se.

drvic59


quality posts: 0 Private Messages drvic59

Sure, why not?

Obama received the Nobel so why not Snowden.

wpollack


quality posts: 0 Private Messages wpollack

He is a traitor. Any pinhead knows that NSA records every call and I am glad they do. Then when triggers like bomb, igniters, Allah or Jihad get said, the call is manually listened to. If there are no triggers, who cares. He should be tried by the military and if found guilty, executed publicly by firing squad.

Dr William Pollack

jscuderi


quality posts: 0 Private Messages jscuderi

I'm jealous...

I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize.

cappo


quality posts: 38 Private Messages cappo
wpollack wrote:He is a traitor. Any pinhead knows that NSA records every call and I am glad they do. Then when triggers like bomb, igniters, Allah or Jihad get said, the call is manually listened to. If there are no triggers, who cares. He should be tried by the military and if found guilty, executed publicly by firing squad.



Except for all those times they've been using the calls for other stuff... like spying on love interests.


paulpnevada


quality posts: 26 Private Messages paulpnevada

Isn't the Nobel Peace Prize now just a popularity contest? How else can anyone explain Obama winning it? He certainly didn't do anything to deserve even a nomination, so it has to be something other than actually doing something.

Heck, even Gore produced a slide show on a theoretical problem, even with no solutions presented he also won it.

So winning doesn't depend on facts or actually doing anything, so it must be a popularity contest.

metagg


quality posts: 1 Private Messages metagg

Here's a man that witnessed the government violate the Constitution. It is his patriotic duty to report these outrageous practices to We The People, by any means necessary to ensure his safety.

greyfade


quality posts: 2 Private Messages greyfade

The real traitors are the leadership at the NSA. Both James Clapper and Kieth Alexander are guilty of lying under oath before Congress on more than one occasion (which is a Federal Felony offense), and both have demonstrated a level of disdain for civil liberties that, in my opinion, is tantamount to treason. Since Snowden's revelations about the NSA, Congressional oversight has revealed that the NSA is at the very least in violation of the spirit of the law, if not also the letter of it.

And the NSA's claims that they're protecting us form "terrorism" is little different from terrorism itself: Terrorism is nothing more than an act to instill fear in a populace. And that, the NSA has done a far better job of than cave-dwelling fundamentalists.

The POTUS' defense of the NSA and the other 15 spying agencies is similarly distasteful, as each of these agencies far exceeds their authority, and the Constitutional limits on it. Worse, the judicial oversight is little more than a rubber-stamp process, even as that same oversight has pointed out that the NSA is operating in violation of FISA Court orders.

Regardless of your feelings about Mr. Snowden, the NSA's activities are a clear violation of Constitutional law, and depend on a gross misreading of the PATRIOT Act, which James Sessenbrenner has pointed out more than once does not allow these activities.

If anyone should be put in prison, it's Clapper, Alexander, and Diane Feinstein, for lying to the American public and for allowing this disgraceful behavior to continue unchecked.

I, for one, am glad that Snowden had the balls to do what no one else in the government seems to: Tell the truth.

-- greyfade

roryconrad005


quality posts: 0 Private Messages roryconrad005
soren216 wrote:Sharing your native countries secrets makes you a hero? I don't care how many people think he is a hero, but the truth is he is a domestic terrorist. He spread our secrets to anybody who would listen, and even if it's outdated information it is still valuable. He should be prime target for an all out manhunt not a Nobel prize!



Sharing your native countries secretes, that the native gov. is secretly spying on its citizens via phone calls, meta data is a domestic terrorist? does that make any since?

roryconrad005


quality posts: 0 Private Messages roryconrad005
jlc40 wrote:My opinion of Snowden might be a bit different if he hadn't taken a bunch of our classified information to Russia with him "just in case." If he actually wanted to come back, his story is public enough at this point that any "accident" that might befall him upon his return to the states would be highly scrutinized.

In any case, I think between compromising our intelligence-gathering activities and the strain he's placed on our relationships with other countries, whether or not you agree with what he did, you would have to agree that a Nobel *Peace* Prize is rather out of order.



he didnt take any of the info to russia

roryconrad005


quality posts: 0 Private Messages roryconrad005
greyfade wrote:The real traitors are the leadership at the NSA. Both James Clapper and Kieth Alexander are guilty of lying under oath before Congress on more than one occasion (which is a Federal Felony offense), and both have demonstrated a level of disdain for civil liberties that, in my opinion, is tantamount to treason. Since Snowden's revelations about the NSA, Congressional oversight has revealed that the NSA is at the very least in violation of the spirit of the law, if not also the letter of it.

And the NSA's claims that they're protecting us form "terrorism" is little different from terrorism itself: Terrorism is nothing more than an act to instill fear in a populace. And that, the NSA has done a far better job of than cave-dwelling fundamentalists.

The POTUS' defense of the NSA and the other 15 spying agencies is similarly distasteful, as each of these agencies far exceeds their authority, and the Constitutional limits on it. Worse, the judicial oversight is little more than a rubber-stamp process, even as that same oversight has pointed out that the NSA is operating in violation of FISA Court orders.

Regardless of your feelings about Mr. Snowden, the NSA's activities are a clear violation of Constitutional law, and depend on a gross misreading of the PATRIOT Act, which James Sessenbrenner has pointed out more than once does not allow these activities.

If anyone should be put in prison, it's Clapper, Alexander, and Diane Feinstein, for lying to the American public and for allowing this disgraceful behavior to continue unchecked.

I, for one, am glad that Snowden had the balls to do what no one else in the government seems to: Tell the truth.



TRUTH!!!

rjgogo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rjgogo

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin

And if you don't think the government snooping in on your private emails and phone records without a court order is giving up liberty then I have a bridge to sell you in NY.

rjgogo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rjgogo
wpollack wrote:He is a traitor. Any pinhead knows that NSA records every call and I am glad they do. Then when triggers like bomb, igniters, Allah or Jihad get said, the call is manually listened to. If there are no triggers, who cares. He should be tried by the military and if found guilty, executed publicly by firing squad.



So then you should have no problem with the Gestapo stopping by your house and doing a full search when ever they want? You should be okay with them tracking everywhere you drive and everything you buy as well? Where are you going to draw the line then?

rjgogo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rjgogo

If you haven't seen this happen with Iraq and a bunch of other things you are blind. This is pretty much how Fox news does it for every topic


"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials


werdwerdus


quality posts: 15 Private Messages werdwerdus

had to post the CORRECT popcorn.gif :P

souravzzz


quality posts: 0 Private Messages souravzzz
winfreg wrote:He is a traitor, plain and simple. I too have a federal government security clearance and an important part of the process is undertaking an oath to protect the Nation's secrets and defend the Constitution.



Your undertaking an oath has no credibility after there is been documented evidence (from sources other than Snowden) that NSA employees misused their clearance to snoop on to their ex's lives. And do you really believe that an oath is going to stop people from abusing these mass information? Maybe you are a good guy, but would you trust all your colleagues with all your personal secrets?

The founders knew that all branches of the government should have checks and balances from other branches, that's why the police can't do search and seizure without a court-issued warrant. The whole mass surveillance by NSA is unconstitutional, and morally and ethically wrong as well.

devo1979


quality posts: 0 Private Messages devo1979

The same people complaining about the NSA are the same people posting what they had for breakfast on Facebook. You all gave up your privacy!

meezerbean


quality posts: 0 Private Messages meezerbean

Snowden is a traitor. He violated the law and that is really all there is to it. The fact he gave the information away rather than selling it makes no difference. He knew it was wrong, that's why he fled the country before releasing any information.

zanders


quality posts: 0 Private Messages zanders

I think that Snowden had the right thinking, he saw something he didn't think was legal and he told people about it. That said, he also told people a lot of things they didn't need to know, and running off to Russia was definitely not something someone does when they think they're on the right side. He should have stayed and made his case in court, or at least owned up to what he did instead of running away. It makes him look worse than he probably wishes. Whistle blowing is a good way to combat power abuse, but when you run off to the big ol' bear in the East after blowing open the door on our national security, it doesn't look good.

rjgogo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rjgogo

edit

rjgogo


quality posts: 0 Private Messages rjgogo
zanders wrote:I think that Snowden had the right thinking, he saw something he didn't think was legal and he told people about it. That said, he also told people a lot of things they didn't need to know, and running off to Russia was definitely not something someone does when they think they're on the right side. He should have stayed and made his case in court, or at least owned up to what he did instead of running away. It makes him look worse than he probably wishes. Whistle blowing is a good way to combat power abuse, but when you run off to the big ol' bear in the East after blowing open the door on our national security, it doesn't look good.



Dude, He is whistle blower at th highest level, you really thing he could do that here?

I for one am pissed they are taking my info and looking at it. It is none of their business.

If you are not pissed about this you are a M O R O N.

TheBeast13


quality posts: 0 Private Messages TheBeast13
winfreg wrote:I too have a federal government security clearance and an important part of the process is undertaking an oath to protect the Nation's secrets and defend the Constitution.



He had to break his oath to the former to defend the latter which is far more important.